In 72 offensive plays in Super Bowl XLIX, New England did not fumble.
Ball must've been deflated!
In 72 offensive plays in Super Bowl XLIX, New England did not fumble.
cornwalls@6 said:So, after 3 weeks of this shit-storm, and the glorious 4th Lombardi that was just won, I've gone through all the stages of outrage/triumph, and arrived here:
I'm completely bemused, and somewhat appalled, at how much the NFL has become like a kindergarten playground. They cheated!! They're cheaters!! No fair, they're big cheating meanies!! Fuck off and die, everyone who is beating that drum. Stop deluding yourselves that you somehow have been, for decades, watching, covering, playing in, something akin to Pop Warner Football or the Boy scouts of America. This is ferociously competitive, win at all costs, big-boy sports/business. I no longer give 2 shits whether the Pats are guilty of anything here. I assume they're all pushing every envelope, trying to get every edge they can. I'm glad our team does it better than most.
I no longer give a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks of the New England Patriots. Seriously, who gives a fuck? Does it effect my enjoyment of watching them play every week in the fall, or how great this epic run of the last 15 years has been? No, it does not. So fuck "legacy", fuck media trolls, fuck bitter, moronic opposing fans on the internet, fuck hypocritical former players who can't stand the thought of someone else surpassing their accomplishments. Fuck. Them. All.
Finally, my only remaining interest is in hoping that the incompetent, over-compensating, weakling of a commissioner doesn't impose some completely arbitrary, over the top penalty(draft picks, suspensions) that hurts the Patriots on the field next year and beyond. I think that is looking less likely, but with him, who knows? Either way, as soon as the verdict comes in on this, I'm done. And will then turn my attention to the overall quest for No. 5, and the inevitable ritual-killing that awaits the Colts some Sunday Night during November sweeps next fall.
MarcSullivaFan said:Here's how I handicap the outcome:
40% insufficient evidence to find a violation. Pats are not punished, but are not exonerated.
25% No evidence of intentional misconduct, but Pats receive a slap on the wrist for not having their footballs up to code.
15% Pats are railroaded on the basis of inconclusive evidence, commissioner cites previous statements about low standard of proof for determining culpability. Inconclusive as to who was responsible. Lose a 1st round pick and are hit with a major fine.
15% investigation turns up an actual or purported smoking gun. Brady and/or Belichick are suspended, picks are forfeited, and Kraft goes ballistic.
4% Pats are exonerated. Wells finds the witnesses credible and the scientific evidence compelling. Goodell never apologizes because he was just doing his job, etc.
1% Pats are exonerated because Colts ball boy admits to further deflating the ball Jackson intercepted. Grigson gets shitcanned.
Most jurisdictions restrict the extent to which liability can be precluded/waived in advance for intentional torts (including fraud; defamation I'm not sure about). So, an NFL plaintiff against Goodell (or maybe unnamed NFL employees who leaked bad garbage about the Pats) would probably need to frame the wrongdoing as an intentional tort. It might be doable. But I agree in general that the chances are remote.lexrageorge said:He could probably claim the commissioner acted well outside his designated powers, and was possibly behind a fraudulent sting operation with deliberately manufactured evidence. He could probably shine enough of a spotlight to damage the NFL's credibility further.
I think the chances of this happening are remote (1%), and occur only if Goodell is stupid enough to attempt a suspension and docking the team a first rounder.
Forget it. I was wrong about the rule.There is no Rev said:
Based upon what "code" would this slap on the wrist be based? The team literally only has to make balls "available."
I'd love to see them submit nearly completely deflated balls all next season.
It actually says non-approved which would be a ball not approved by the officials prior to the game. In the article you linked there is no reference to a nonconforming ball. These are two totally different circumstances.MarcSullivaFan said:The Game Operations Manual, which sets the minimum $25k penalty implies that rule is violated when a team merely uses a non-conforming football in a game. I cannot find a copy of the manual online, but I've seen that provision referenced in several reports:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nflnation&id=159490&src=desktop
A ball not approved prior to the game.Doctor G said:It actually says non-approved which would be a ball not approved by the officials prior to the game. In the article you linked there is no reference to a nonconforming ball. These are two totally different circumstances.
You're right. I was reading it based on my previous, incorrect understanding of the rule.Doctor G said:It actually says non-approved which would be a ball not approved by the officials prior to the game. In the article you linked there is no reference to a nonconforming ball. These are two totally different circumstances.
MarcSullivaFan said:You're right. I was reading it based on my previous, incorrect understanding of the rule.
However, I would certainly not put it past Goodell to punish the Pats for using an underinflated football without any evidence of intentional wrongdoing.
snowmanny said:FYI Cris Carter never used Stickum on his hands, so none of his Super Bowl wins are tainted:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/09/cris-carter-says-he-never-used-stickum/
Sort of surprised Tebow hasn't been drawn into this, given that he would be familiar with the NE ball prep process.djbayko said:
Cris didn't use stickum. He just organized bounty programs before it was cool.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Cris-Carter-Bill-Romanowski-NFL-bounty-New-Orleans-Saints-050912
Seriously, every ex player outside of Tim Tebow needs to get off his high horse and STFU.
It also explains why Bill went all in with his defense with 1 min left. Driving from the 20 to FG range with no timeouts and less than 60 seconds would have required throwing long which they did not do all game.rodderick said:
It's basically: "execute, don't get greedy, be patient and be glad to take what's there". Seems like a simple enough message, but it takes a lot of preparation and mental toughness to believe that gameplan and keep at it while down 10 in the fourth quarter.
Hoya81 said:Sort of surprised Tebow hasn't been drawn into this, given that he would be familiar with the NE ball prep process.
ifmanis5 said:RefusesSpecial Teams dutiesto bang before marriage, would not bang.
Hoya81 said:http://www.wthr.com/story/28071580/kravitz-a-sort-of-mea-culpa-on-deflategate
Kravitz walking back a lot of his rhetoric from after the story broke.
"In ensuing tweets and a column or two, I wrote that if owner Robert Kraft had an ounce of integrity, Belichick would be bounced immediately, draft picks should be forfeited and the Pats should be fined. What I failed to do was make it abundantly clear, “IF the Patriots are found guilty of having tampered with the footballs…'' I failed to understand, at least at the time, that each tweet, taken by itself, is an independent organism, not a part of a continuing narrative."
http://www.wthr.com/story/27932510/kravitz-belichick-the-science-guy-tries-to-explain-away-deflategateIf this truly was due to some kind of atmospheric issues, why were all the Colts footballs within the league's parameters?
Was it colder on one side of the stadium than it was on the other? Do the Patriots prepare the footballs in such a unique way that it loses air more quickly than the Colts footballs?
I agree that no one should be faulting Kravitz for breaking the story. I'm pretty sure that I would have run with it as well, if he had it verified by the "great sources" he says he had. My problem with the media was the absolute lack of independent thought on the part of many many highly visible sports reporters (including many Boston sports writers). They took the one fossilized bone that Kravitz dug up and Jurassic Park-ed that sucker into a Velociraptor, when it could just as easily have been some kid's dead pet rabbit.Dick Pole Upside said:I'm actually pleasantly surprised he did this. I never had a problem with him breaking the report on the investigation (my issue is with Irsay/Grigson)... it was the knee-jerk judgment and howling for heads that took his work completely off the rails. To admit that he didn't adequately differentiate facts from speculation and emotion is unusual for print/electronic media members. Many in the media covering the Pats have blurred the lines between reporting and opining, especially on social media. Subsequently, the value of the information for this story degraded almost instantaneously.
P.S. He's still a dope. I drove past him crossing the street pulling his roller bag as he was on his way to Banker's Life Fieldhouse to cover Pacers-Spurs last night. Angry thoughts went through my head...
ifmanis5 said:Oh please, Kravitz kept pushing all the typical garbage talking points like those below even after they were debunked.
His apology after burning the witch doesn't count after the witch is dead. He was part of the problem in a big way.
http://www.wthr.com/story/27932510/kravitz-belichick-the-science-guy-tries-to-explain-away-deflategate
I'm of the thinking that the damage has already been done. It's sort of like a correction in a newspaper. Sure, it's nice, but most everyone remembers the original headline more. One of the things I am curious about with the Wells report and potential league discipline is if Colts owner Jim Irsay is held accountable for fanning the flames with what I felt was piling on publicly.
Hoya81 said:http://www.wthr.com/story/28071580/kravitz-a-sort-of-mea-culpa-on-deflategate
Kravitz walking back a lot of his rhetoric from after the story broke.
"In ensuing tweets and a column or two, I wrote that if owner Robert Kraft had an ounce of integrity, Belichick would be bounced immediately, draft picks should be forfeited and the Pats should be fined. What I failed to do was make it abundantly clear, “IF the Patriots are found guilty of having tampered with the footballs…'' I failed to understand, at least at the time, that each tweet, taken by itself, is an independent organism, not a part of a continuing narrative."
And we know this is true after everything we went through with the Rams tape crap. I'm not expecting the general sports fan's opinion to change on the Ballghazi issue no matter what happens in the next few months. They don't like the Pats and they'll stick with that feeling until the bitter end no matter what Wells has to say.E5 Yaz said:I'm of the thinking that the damage has already been done. It's sort of like a correction in a newspaper. Sure, it's nice, but most everyone remembers the original headline more. One of the things I am curious about with the Wells report and potential league discipline is if Colts owner Jim Irsay is held accountable for fanning the flames with what I felt was piling on publicly.
ifmanis5 said:
And the guy who helped make our lives a living hell for two weeks wants to make sure we know he was saying IF all the time?
The Social Chair said:
You're being a little hyperbolic. Kraviz is hack, but the 2 weeks worth of anti-semitic slurs and death threats he got were probably more unpleasant than your 2 weeks.
snowmanny said:I think with Kravitz, he's struggling to just portray himself as a journalist who is being vilified for reporting that there was an investigation being initiated. The problem with that is that he ventured into unfounded speculation, convicting the Patriots and specifically Belichick and proposing harsh punishments including the firing of the coach. He knows he screwed up.
The Social Chair said:
You're being a little hyperbolic. Kraviz is hack, but the 2 weeks worth of anti-semitic slurs and death threats he got were probably more unpleasant than your 2 weeks.
Didn't you see last night's Better Call Saul?BigSoxFan said:Hey, Robert Edwards, you going to leave us hanging on how you injured yourself?
BigSoxFan said:Hey, Robert Edwards, you going to leave us hanging on how you injured yourself?
snowmanny said:I think with Kravitz, he's struggling to just portray himself as a journalist who is being vilified for reporting that there was an investigation being initiated. The problem with that is that he ventured into unfounded speculation, convicting the Patriots and specifically Belichick and proposing harsh punishments including the firing of the coach. He knows he screwed up.
I remember Robert Edwards from the CFL. I did not know about his horrible injury in a stupid flag football game.BigSoxFan said:Hey, Robert Edwards, you going to leave us hanging on how you injured yourself?
DrewDawg said:
His initial tweet should have been:
"NFL investigating report of deflated footballs in AFC title game" but instead he went with the "Patriots are being investigated for deflating balls". That was 100% on purpose.
E5 Yaz said:
He also knows that, even if he did go too far, no one in his regular audience would give a crap ... and once whatever findings come out of this are announced, the story moved to another phase. Columnists call for personnel and coaching changes all the time. There's no professional reason apparent or necessary for him to do a mea culpa, primarily intended for an audience in another geographical region.
Yeah, but are the "hate tweets" - and it sounds as if some of them were inexcusable no matter what he wrote - driven by his reporting the single fact of the investigation or by his making shit up in addition to the facts and for calling for Belichick's firing and the loss of draft picks? I think he'd like to believe it's the former and portray himself a poor journalist being skewered for "accurately" telling the truth, but in fact in his big moment he basically screwed up and sensationalized the story for the behalf of his local audience. And he knows it.Bob Kravitz: I think it would be fair to say the last week to week and a half has been the most insane period of my professional life. Radio shows, TV shows, everybody keeps calling for interviews. I can barely find time every day to read my hate tweets. Other writers keep jokingly coming up to me and saying, “This is all your fault,’’ but I’m quite sure this story would have gotten out whether I reported it or not. An NFL investigation into allegations of cheating is a big thing; surely, someone would have caught wind of it. As it happened, I’m the one who heard about it and confirmed it and reported it -- accurately, I might add.
No one deserves that crap except it was his horrible reporting that was responsible for it.The Social Chair said:You're being a little hyperbolic. Kraviz is hack, but the 2 weeks worth of anti-semitic slurs and death threats he got were probably more unpleasant than your 2 weeks.
ifmanis5 said:No one deserves that crap except it was his horrible reporting that was responsible for it.
Hey, the auto mechanic that screwed up your car for two weeks, cost you thousands of dollars and made you walk everywhere feels really bad about it. So what? It was his mistake to begin with that caused the problem.
nighthob said:Poor baby, two weeks of paid media appearances, national attention, and probably a raise. I wish my last two weeks had "sucked" like that. Instead I still have two fucking jobs and work 80 fucking hours a week.
EDIT: And please spare me the "people insulted him on twitter" nonsense. We're not in third fucking grade here.