General Offseason Thread.
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
Maybe, I don't think they were going to actually go space, it meant renouncing multiple playoff rotation guys, this class stinks too much to do that. I think the trade was as much about dodging long term tax and apron concerns than anything else. They want the full 12.4M MLE.
Could be - trading a 1st for the full MLE is a bad swap unless you have a specific guy you know you can get there. So, as before, we'll see their plan and then we can assess. I'm dubious, but they've been competent for a couple years now and likely do have a plan; whether it's their first choice or not I'm not sure of
And here I thought watching Walsh's defensive film would be my big gift! Incredible. In another tab for my weekend plans at length.
Here we go:
View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1674573508624482307
Marks did the math. They can get to 18M if they want, or they could do something similar with the 7.7MLE mixed in, or they could stay over the cap. Lot of flexibility.
Ready for my hot take.... I think they were considering a run at Harden. Only guy I see that makes sense at over 30M, otherwise 18M is enough for most targets.
View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1674573508624482307
Marks did the math. They can get to 18M if they want, or they could do something similar with the 7.7MLE mixed in, or they could stay over the cap. Lot of flexibility.
Ready for my hot take.... I think they were considering a run at Harden. Only guy I see that makes sense at over 30M, otherwise 18M is enough for most targets.
Yeah, and they lost out on Draymond the second GS traded for Chris Paul. It's just a question of how much, he's 99% re-signing with the Warriors.
Yup---seems like that has to be the answer. Green's former assistant, and owner obsessed with GS, it all fits. And the Paul trade is a good addition to the timeline, that may have moved Dray back to GS.
So Kings pivoted, which isn't awful....but it is (as suggested earlier) very likely their plan b
Draymond is the likely answer, though you are right that Harden as a FA is a possibility. That would also fit with today's news---Harden opts-in (opening up his market) and Sac pivots to Barnes.
so James can come in and slow it down with 3000 dribbles between his legs at the top???
It's the Kings and all, but Harden sounds sub-optimal with the uptempo offense Mike Brown runs through Fox & Sabonis
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COuld be someone else who re-signed. I don't think it was just Draymond though, or at least not regarding the draft trade, since the Chris Paul deal happened well before the draft so they likely had a good idea about Draymond's availability before that trade. Could be tax stuff, could be about a Sabonis extension, who knows.
Yeah it'd be an odd match with the way they play offense, but on the flip side he fits in perfectly with their defensive philosophy.
I don't have any idea why Sacramento would want him, or why he'd want to go there.
If the Kings thought they could pry Draymond from the Warriors they were delusional.
I can't even criticize them if it were Draymond they were chasing---he's such a good fit in terms of what they need.
They have a solid pivot here, Barnes is there already and a nice player, and they'll add one more. Hurts to lose a pick for nothing but if they took a shot at a big upgrade it's not that big a deal to lose a low-first. Bad luck for Celtics they traded out to someone who may have sniped our guy!
They have a solid pivot here, Barnes is there already and a nice player, and they'll add one more. Hurts to lose a pick for nothing but if they took a shot at a big upgrade it's not that big a deal to lose a low-first. Bad luck for Celtics they traded out to someone who may have sniped our guy!
You think? I believe he was, coming into offseason, at least sort of gettable because of his ego, wants to show he's critically important.
My guess is that making Green happy was a part of the Poole deal (not the biggest thing, but a factor). And I do think Paul deal helps a bit there too.
Some fans and talk shows out here were talking about it as a remote possibility, but really I think at best the Kings were hoping to just tweak the warriors a bit and make sure they paid through the nose to keep him (and don't get me wrong, that's a perfectly good reason to make an offer).
I never felt there was any chance Draymond is/was leaving this core group both out of gunning for another title with the guys as well as his loyalty to that core group.
You may be right, and we may not ever really know. If I were his agent or his best friend that's what I would have told him---while he's a great player, I personally believe he's a little overrated based on his teammates.
Yeah this feels right. The big question is what happens with Klay 12 months from now. I feel like he might have more pride than Draymond, while simultaneously being less valuable to the Warriors. Fun combo.
That's no doubt a big part of why he'll stay; the other is that there may not be that many other offers out there that allow him both to get paid and to have a real chance to compete for another championship.
I think it's Sabonis.
They need the cap space to give him a raise this year to get to an extension number he'll accept.
I would agree with this if Golden State was unwilling to pay him. I don't think that is/was a possibility as they'd have no problem paying him $30m or so annually.
Yeah, but just think. With Draymond on the Kings, Sabonis wouldn't have to worry about getting stomped in games anymore. But he might have to dodge some punches during practice.
What's wrong with Philly from Harden's perspective? The strip clubs suck or he doesn't see that team getting over the hump?
could be a lot of things.. he doesn't like EMbiid? He wasn't thrilled with his role last year (talked a lot about how he sacrificed), he wanted more years than they would give him, he wants more $ than they would give him, etc.
Yeah, I was wondering if anyone had heard actual rumors as to why but probably not.
I'd like to think that he hated Embiid, but he seemed pretty chummy with him. Bought him a Rolex for his MVP award.
I don't think you get your account nuked for trolling Shams/Woj. I think it's more likely that the account gained too much heat, too quickly and the person behind it got worried that their identity and relationship with the NBA would get found out. They called at least one other FA move correctly besides Harden.
I know there is a fair amount of Coach speak with Steve Kerr but
“If Draymond’s not back, we’re not a championship contender,” Kerr said. “We know that. He’s that important to winning, to who we are. I absolutely want him back.”
that statement 6 weeks ago basically sealed Jordan Poole's fate
It’s just clickbait, but wouldn’t this be the funniest outcome? This guy suggests Harden to Boston with… Al Horford going back to his Philadelphia nightmare:
“If Harden wants a super team, this is it. The Celtics can match Harden's salary almost exactly by trading Al Horford, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard. They control all of their own future draft capital, minus one pick swap owed to San Antonio. They could still technically bring back Grant Williams, as they have his Bird Rights in free agency.”
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-harden-trade-destinations-clippers-lead-the-pack-but-knicks-heat-celtics-and-bucks-loom/
I think you could do it without Al and still keep Grant? Like Brogdon/Pritchard/Kornet/Kabengele or something.
“If Harden wants a super team, this is it. The Celtics can match Harden's salary almost exactly by trading Al Horford, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard. They control all of their own future draft capital, minus one pick swap owed to San Antonio. They could still technically bring back Grant Williams, as they have his Bird Rights in free agency.”
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-harden-trade-destinations-clippers-lead-the-pack-but-knicks-heat-celtics-and-bucks-loom/
I think you could do it without Al and still keep Grant? Like Brogdon/Pritchard/Kornet/Kabengele or something.
Horford has been a vital piece to this team but with Porzingis around he is now expendable with a now redundant skillset.
Philly could do much better than Brogdon I would imagine, and also, the Boston Celtics would refuse the deal so they didn’t lose me as a fan.
Pretty interesting article, suggesting (and this lines up with the evidence) that Harden took the cheap deal last summer with the expectation that the Sixers would pay him this summer. Instead, Morey started playing hardball. Would seem to be really, really bad for Morey's ability to get handshake-type business done in the future, if true:
https://theathletic.com/4654874/2023/06/30/james-harden-trade-request-76ers-fallout/?source=emp_shared_article
This is not great but can probably be mitigated if he gets Harden to a good situation (with a good return). He's on a wire, but Morey seems to enjoy that. There's probably going to come a day--who knows when--when he is going to be the guy to deal Embiid. And that's going to be a spectacle.
He cost Harden 2 years of significant money with these shenanigans, because Harden has to opt in now. If Harden had known this was how Morey would use the situation, he would have gotten his money last offseason.
It's a really, really bad look.
Morey will blame the new CBA
BUT not a complete shocker Houston/IME tool a pass. The planted stories of Harden going there were pathetic. It never made any sense.
But in recent weeks and days, sources say, all indications on Harden’s side pointed to the Sixers forcing him to test the market before they would make an offer of any kind. The understandable concern for Harden, sources say, was that Philadelphia was preparing to offer him the kind of short-term, team-friendly contract that wouldn’t come close to reflecting his stature in the league or the level of his current play (he averaged 21 points, a league-leading 10.7 assists and 6.1 rebounds in the regular season; 20.3 points, 8.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds in 11 postseason games).
A $14MM haircut just doesn't buy you a 4-year Max deal with those numbers & the new CBA. Just sad the 76ers/Morey didn't bite, I was hoping they would be stuck with him.
No thanks on Harden to Boston.
At some point next week (probably sooner), someone other than Draymond from the players side, will start kicking up a fuss about the new CBA.
Not only do they need Horford but another cheap 4/5, unless you want Kornet playing major minutes next season (which is fine for the regular season)
Zing/Al/TL, let the season-long shrink wrapping commence.
Is he though? I think a Horford who plays balls to the wall during the regular season in short bursts rather than needing to put in 30 minutes/night will be great for the team, and then he can stretch out during an inevitable injury to one of RWIII or Kristaps. Without Horford, you're a bad break or two away from playing Kornet 25-30 mpg. Of course this assumes you are simply including Horford in a deal for a wing, if you improve the Kornet spot on the roster from this or another transaction I'd be more open to a trade.
Agreed. The 30mpg nonsense is over.
Horford at $10MM is an absolute steal. More importantly, he is the wise vet, who opted to sign a discounted extension to stay in Boston. With Smart gone, he is the de facto leader of this team.
Take his name out of all the trade discussions, the Celtics need him a dozen different ways.
People have overlooked Horford from the minute he got here for his second Celtics go-around. If you look back at that discussion, many fans thought that he was pure salary fodder, and the trade was just about dumping Kemba's deal. There was even talk about re-routing him that summer. That was pretty obviously wrong even at the time, and the thought that Horford is expendable now also seems misguided to me. There's not a team in the league that wouldn't love Al Horford off the bench for $10m/y. He's not going anywhere.
The first of many Home Runs by Brad. It's really hard to find a bad deal by the front office over the last 2 years, even by this forum's most ardent sticklers (I'm guilty as charged).
Al, over the last two seasons, has outperformed even the most optimistic Horford fanboys. Taking a discounted midseason deal, to sure up a position of weakness, means Al should be penciled in here for at least two more seasons (Bronson Arroyo he ain't)
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1674789506149646338
SAC acquiring Chris Duarte for what I assume will be a 2nd or two. SAC using cap space on a 2nd draft guy, IND trying to eke out a bit more space for FAs.
Duarte was a guy I had on the list of potential targets in a Pritchard position flip.
SAC acquiring Chris Duarte for what I assume will be a 2nd or two. SAC using cap space on a 2nd draft guy, IND trying to eke out a bit more space for FAs.
Duarte was a guy I had on the list of potential targets in a Pritchard position flip.
Jazz fully guarantee your old pal Olynyk, which was always a no-brainer, he was really good for them last season. Jordan Clarkson opts in, which was a nice surprise as he's fit in really well and provides excellent scoring on the second team, but probably just didn't see a market for him this offseason. Talen Horton-Tucker also opts in, which is just meh, I guess.
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2023/06/29/reports-jordan-clarkson-talen/
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2023/06/29/reports-jordan-clarkson-talen/
Duarte has had some intriguing stretches. Shooting really fell off this year but I think he's a good "buy low" candidate.
Duarte mat be another solid acquisition, like Kevin Huerter last season, as the Kings try to improve their already top of the league scoring
So one underrated thing on the Harden move.... I bet this helps convince Bruce Brown to leave DEN. Just a clear example of "hey, you can't count on the "handshake" deal, they're lying to you"
We likely won't find out, but I wonder how much of the change on Philly side around Harden was Morey and how much was ownership....because with the new CBA and a year of the "James Harden experience" I can easily imagine ownership saying they weren't comfortable signing up for more.
Harden got Gordon Gunded by Morey. I hope he speaks his mind once he's a Clipper and exposes Morey for all he is.
Denver is limited as to what they can pay Brown and he's never been a guy who has been paid unlike Harden who has multiple 7-figure years under his belt. There is close to 0% chance of him being a Nugget imo both before and after this report.
There was some talk they'd do the 1 at 7.8 with a handshake for a big raise, now some of that may have been Championship afterglow but talk was he was considering it. This is why he shouldn't.