Jaylen Brown, Year 7

benhogan

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If Demar Derozan is a forward for the All-NBA, then Jaylen should be as well. It's really that simple.

Derozan is a forward on a team with Zach Lavine and Ayo Dosonmu listed as guards. When Derozan misses a game, he's replaced in the lineup by Alex Caruso. Derozan leads the team in assists per game.

Jaylen is supposedly a guard on a team with Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon and Derrick White. When Jaylen misses a game, he's usually replaced by Grant Williams. Jaylen is 5th on the team in assists per game.

Jaylen Brown is not a guard. He's the fucking defining example of a small forward in today's game.
Agreed.

Unfortunately for JB, after the Finals last year many national NBA reporters will just assume the Celtics play Double BIG, which means Tatum is an SF and Brown is the SG next to Marcus the PG.

It's archaic and going to cost Jaylen "FORWARD" votes unless it's clarified.

If the Celtics do nothing, it probably means they don't care if Jaylen Brown gets ALL-NBA.
 

Jimbodandy

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If the Celtics do nothing, it probably means they don't care if Jaylen Brown gets ALL-NBA.
Facts not in evidence.

We've all seen people who aren't good at their job or are good at parts of their job but not other parts. It could very well be that Brad is good at the team building but not the team-cultivating part of the job. Wyc et al. as well. I'm not sure that it means that they don't care or have a stance that they'd rather not pay supermax. Could just as easily (more likely imo) be a blind spot.
 

benhogan

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Facts not in evidence.

We've all seen people who aren't good at their job or are good at parts of their job but not other parts. It could very well be that Brad is good at the team building but not the team-cultivating part of the job. Wyc et al. as well. I'm not sure that it means that they don't care or have a stance that they'd rather not pay supermax. Could just as easily (more likely imo) be a blind spot.
If we can all see it, I have to think they can too.

Jaylen's interview with the NYT was a gentle tap on the Celtic's shoulder

Tatum was pretty ticked off here (start at 6:44)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x6u08cIazQ&t=531s
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Facts not in evidence.

We've all seen people who aren't good at their job or are good at parts of their job but not other parts. It could very well be that Brad is good at the team building but not the team-cultivating part of the job. Wyc et al. as well. I'm not sure that it means that they don't care or have a stance that they'd rather not pay supermax. Could just as easily (more likely imo) be a blind spot.
POBOBS may have a blind spot but I find it difficult to believe that the entire organization has a blind spot. (If so, maybe someone is reading this thread?) particularly after it seemed like the organization gave a full-court press (ha!) to a guard being DPOY last year.

OTOH, maybe since they didn't do it for JT they feel like they can't do it for JB.
 

benhogan

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POBOBS may have a blind spot but I find it difficult to believe that the entire organization has a blind spot. (If so, maybe someone is reading this thread?) particularly after it seemed like the organization gave a full-court press (ha!) to a guard being DPOY last year.

OTOH, maybe since they didn't do it for JT they feel like they can't do it for JB.
ALL-NBA has an actual impact on contracts and long-dated cap.
Mike Zarren has been crunching this crap for months.
DPOY is a fabulous honor and a nice piece of crystal.

If the Celtics won't run a PR campaign then Jaylen's Agent (does he have one?) should be working the voters' phones.
 

Auger34

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POBOBS may have a blind spot but I find it difficult to believe that the entire organization has a blind spot. (If so, maybe someone is reading this thread?) particularly after it seemed like the organization gave a full-court press (ha!) to a guard being DPOY last year.

OTOH, maybe since they didn't do it for JT they feel like they can't do it for JB.
Did the organization do that for Smart? He definitely campaigned for himself, Puma (his sneaker brand) went all out but I don’t remember the actual Celtics doing a ton of campaigning? (But I absolutely could be wrong)
 

mcpickl

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KD has no shot this year, he’s definitely missed too many games. LeBron on the other hand, if he plays 3-5 more games, I think he 100% gets voted in. He’s at 47 games now, and he made it last year at 56 games played. It’s stupid, and I disagree, but I can’t see them not voting him in the season he became the all time leading scorer.
I agree. I think Lebron is a lock if he gets to 50 games, he may even make it if he doesn't get there but I'd bet 50 is a nice round number voters on the fence will want him to hit. Jaylen gets a break with Durant at 42 games played, that's probably not enough to make it. Only guy in that ballpark in the past 40 years in an 82 game season was Pippen making it with 44 games played in 1998.

I think it's going to be really close for Jaylen. He has no chance at guard. Luka, Steph, SGA, Dame, Mitchell surely have to be ahead of him. He'd have to beat out all of Fox, Harden, Haliburton, Booker, Ja, Brunson..I'd have Fox as my 6th right now.

At forward, Tatum and Giannis are lock first team. I'd have Butler and Lebron locked too. So two spots left for Randle, Markannen, Durant for voters that think he's played enough, whoever of AD/Sabonis/Bam isn't third team center, Derozan, Siakam, Jaylen and I think making a late push is Kawhi. He's at 44 GP with 9 games left. If he gets to 50 GP I think he might steal a spot.

Right now I think I'd have Markannen and Randle as my last two forwards. They will have the voting advantage as well since they'll surely get all of their votes as forwards, if they're even eligible elswhere, where the leftover centers and Jaylen might get a few stray votes that aren't at forward.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Did the organization do that for Smart? He definitely campaigned for himself, Puma (his sneaker brand) went all out but I don’t remember the actual Celtics doing a ton of campaigning? (But I absolutely could be wrong)
Scal, Abby, Grande and Gorman started talking about early and just continued through the last part of the season. IIRC, Celtics twitter also posted some things about Smart for DPOY. I'm only speculating but it seemed to be something organizational, not just some people touting Smart on their own. But yes it's speculation.
 

djbayko

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Right now I think I'd have Markannen and Randle as my last two forwards. They will have the voting advantage as well since they'll surely get all of their votes as forwards, if they're even eligible elswhere, where the leftover centers and Jaylen might get a few stray votes that aren't at forward.
Pretty sure this is inaccurate. Votes per position merely determines which position the player is slotted at (the one where they received >50% of their votes). However, within that slotted position, all votes from both positions are counted to determine which players make the cut. I had a good reference for this last year but can't find it now. The best I can find with a quick search is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tjt65y/psa_players_who_receive_allnba_votes_at_multiple/

Makes sense. If it weren't this way, then they would be screwing any player who they decided to assign to multiple positions on the ballot.

Edit: I remember why we discussed this last year. Because some people were suggesting that voters collude to make sure both Embiid and Jokic make 1st team. It was theoretically possible because all you'd need to do is convince 50% + 1 voters to vote for Embiid at one position and 50% + 1 voters to vote for Jokic at the other position (theoretically possible but not practically achievable).
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Why are people so confused about the Celtics not publicly backing Brown during the KD negotiations?

Isn't the incredibly obvious answer that the Celtics WERE discussing KD for Brown and they couldn't say, "no way were trading Jaylen!" in case they agreed on a trade?

Hindsight is wonderful, but they had no option but to remain silent. Several months removed from a non-trade, of course we wish the Cs backed Brown. But that wasn't feasible at the time.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Pretty sure this is inaccurate. Votes per position merely determines which position the player is slotted at (the one where they received >50% of their votes). However, within that slotted position, all votes from both positions are counted to determine which players make the cut. I had a good reference for this last year but can't find it now. The best I can find with a quick search is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tjt65y/psa_players_who_receive_allnba_votes_at_multiple/

Makes sense. If it weren't this way, then they would be screwing any player who they decided to assign to multiple positions on the ballot.

Edit: I remember why we discussed this last year. Because some people were suggesting that voters collude to make sure both Embiid and Jokic make 1st team. It was theoretically possible because all you'd need to do is convince 50% + 1 voters to vote for Embiid at one position and 50% + 1 voters to vote for Jokic at the other position (theoretically possible but not practically achievable).
Yes this is correct, but where people get screwed is for example Khris Middleton in 2020, who received more votes than the 3rd team guards but didn't make all-NBA because the majority of his votes were at forward and he was behind the other two forwards (Tatum and Butler). https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2020/09/16/giannis-unanimously-selected-first-team-all-nba-middleton-snubbed/5817002002/.

Happened to JT as well IIRC.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pretty sure this is inaccurate. Votes per position merely determines which position the player is slotted at (the one where they received >50% of their votes). However, within that slotted position, all votes from both positions are counted to determine which players make the cut. I had a good reference for this last year but can't find it now. The best I can find with a quick search is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tjt65y/psa_players_who_receive_allnba_votes_at_multiple/

Makes sense. If it weren't this way, then they would be screwing any player who they decided to assign to multiple positions on the ballot.

Edit: I remember why we discussed this last year. Because some people were suggesting that voters collude to make sure both Embiid and Jokic make 1st team. It was theoretically possible because all you'd need to do is convince 50% + 1 voters to vote for Embiid at one position and 50% + 1 voters to vote for Jokic at the other position (theoretically possible but not practically achievable).
Thanks for posting. This makes so much more sense than the ways we had been discussing.
 

benhogan

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Pretty sure this is inaccurate. Votes per position merely determines which position the player is slotted at (the one where they received >50% of their votes). However, within that slotted position, all votes from both positions are counted to determine which players make the cut. I had a good reference for this last year but can't find it now. The best I can find with a quick search is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/tjt65y/psa_players_who_receive_allnba_votes_at_multiple/

Makes sense. If it weren't this way, then they would be screwing any player who they decided to assign to multiple positions on the ballot.

Edit: I remember why we discussed this last year. Because some people were suggesting that voters collude to make sure both Embiid and Jokic make 1st team. It was theoretically possible because all you'd need to do is convince 50% + 1 voters to vote for Embiid at one position and 50% + 1 voters to vote for Jokic at the other position (theoretically possible but not practically achievable).
In Brown's instance, if half the voters say Jaylen Brown is a SG and half the voters say he's a SF he's completely screwed.

1. Brown would get ZERO votes at SG.
2. Brown would have only 50 voters considering him a TOP 6 Forward
3. Butler, Bron, Markkanen, Randle would have 100 voters considering them as a TOP6 Forward

basically what @mcpickl said above
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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In Brown's instance, if half the voters say Jaylen Brown is a SG and half the voters say he's a SF he's completely screwed.

1. Brown would get ZERO votes at SG.
2. Brown would have only 50 voters considering him a TOP 6 Forward
3. Butler, Bron, Markkanen, Randle would have 100 voters considering them as a TOP6 Forward

basically what @mcpickl said above
Not the way it works. If JB gets 50 votes at SG and 51 votes at F, he is determined to have 101 votes and will be listed at F.

If JB gets 50 votes at SG and 59 votes at F, he is determined to have 99 votes and will be listed at G.

The issue comes about - like for MIddleton - where Middleton got 82 total votes but had more votes at F than G. He was way behind JT and Butler (can't remember actual votes but know they both got over 100) but way ahead of Simmons and the other guard (both of whom had in the 50s) so if he had gotten more votes at G than F, Middleton would have been all-NBA.

In JB's case, it looks like at least 5 of the 6 guard spots are pretty well cemented so they should have pretty high vote totals. JB likely won't be able to beat them even including all of his F votes.
 

JakeRae

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In Brown's instance, if half the voters say Jaylen Brown is a SG and half the voters say he's a SF he's completely screwed.

1. Brown would get ZERO votes at SG.
2. Brown would have only 50 voters considering him a TOP 6 Forward
3. Butler, Bron, Markkanen, Randle would have 100 voters considering them as a TOP6 Forward

basically what @mcpickl said above
Isn’t the real issue here that the 7-9 guards, who are better than the 4-6 forwards, are getting screwed? (I have Butler as a lock and deserving to be one but you could easily make this 7-10/3-6 if you disagree with that.) It seems a bit silly to talk about Jaylen potentially getting screwed in All NBA voting based on positions when there are at least 10 guards having pretty much indisputably better seasons than he is. He’s also unlikely to get slotted as a guard for the same reason—he’s not competitive for All NBA votes as a guard this year.
 

benhogan

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Not the way it works. If JB gets 50 votes at SG and 51 votes at F, he is determined to have 101 votes and will be listed at F.

If JB gets 50 votes at SG and 59 votes at F, he is determined to have 99 votes and will be listed at G.

The issue comes about - like for MIddleton - where Middleton got 82 total votes but had more votes at F than G. He was way behind JT and Butler (can't remember actual votes but know they both got over 100) but way ahead of Simmons and the other guard (both of whom had in the 50s) so if he had gotten more votes at G than F, Middleton would have been all-NBA.

In JB's case, it looks like at least 5 of the 6 guard spots are pretty well cemented so they should have pretty high vote totals. JB likely won't be able to beat them even including all of his F votes.
The competition at SG (Guard) is twice as hard. Brown will get ZERO votes at Guard.

Every voter that considers Brown a SG will not only ZERO Jaylen but give his competitors at Forward another vote (ie the #7 Forward gains a vote).

It's pretty easy to see how damaging being labeled a SG by any voter could be to his chances of landing ALL-NBA

Isn’t the real issue here that the 7-9 guards, who are better than the 4-6 forwards, are getting screwed? (I have Butler as a lock and deserving to be one but you could easily make this 7-10/3-6 if you disagree with that.) It seems a bit silly to talk about Jaylen potentially getting screwed in All NBA voting based on positions when there are at least 10 guards having pretty much indisputably better seasons than he is. He’s also unlikely to get slotted as a guard for the same reason—he’s not competitive for All NBA votes as a guard this year.
Exactly. #7-9 Guards are better than #4-6 Forward

They should just go with a
1. TOP15 ranking (especially since $$$ is riding on this) OR
2. PG + 3 WINGs + CENTER, if positions are still near and dear to some.

BUT 6 Forwards + 6 Guards + 3 centers is the system now. Unless the Celtics get out in front of this Brown will struggle to get ALL-NBA. At least that's been my contention.

*I really could care less about rankings, ALL-NBA, and All-Star weekend. All I care about is the Celtics retaining Jaylen Brown for the next 5 seasons. There are some rumors in regards to the CBA/PA contract being re-negotiated by March 31st that could change the dynamics on the Celtics re-signing Brown. There could be a middle ground between the ALL-NBA-driven Super MAX and a standard Max contract during the extension window that Brown may sign this summer. I imagine Zarren/Brad are all over those tea leaves and my hand wringing might be for not.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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The competition at SG (Guard) is twice as hard. Brown will get ZERO votes at Guard.

Every voter that considers Brown a SG will not only ZERO Jaylen but give his competitors at Forward another vote (ie the #7 Forward gains a vote).

It's pretty easy to see how damaging being labeled a SG by any voter could be to his chances of landing ALL-NBA
OK. Sorry I misunderstood what you are trying to post. I think JB will get some votes at Guard but agree that some voters who consider him a guard won't vote for him as a forward.

Agree with the rest of your post FWIW.
 

djbayko

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The competition at SG (Guard) is twice as hard. Brown will get ZERO votes at Guard.

Every voter that considers Brown a SG will not only ZERO Jaylen but give his competitors at Forward another vote (ie the #7 Forward gains a vote).

It's pretty easy to see how damaging being labeled a SG by any voter could be to his chances of landing ALL-NBA


Exactly. #7-9 Guards are better than #4-6 Forward

They should just go with a
1. TOP15 ranking (especially since $$$ is riding on this) OR
2. PG + 3 WINGs + CENTER, if positions are still near and dear to some.

BUT 6 Forwards + 6 Guards + 3 centers is the system now. Unless the Celtics get out in front of this Brown will struggle to get ALL-NBA. At least that's been my contention.

*I really could care less about rankings, ALL-NBA, and All-Star weekend. All I care about is the Celtics retaining Jaylen Brown for the next 5 seasons. There are some rumors in regards to the CBA/PA contract being re-negotiated by March 31st that could change the dynamics on the Celtics re-signing Brown. There could be a middle ground between the ALL-NBA-driven Super MAX and a standard Max contract during the extension window that Brown may sign this summer. I imagine Zarren/Brad are all over those tea leaves and my hand wringing might be for not.
If that is what @mcpickl meant, then my bad. At least it caused us to get on the same page as to how voting works because it is a common misunderstanding.
 

benhogan

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If that is what @mcpickl meant, then my bad. At least it caused us to get on the same page as to how voting works because it is a common misunderstanding.
I don't want to speak for him, but I think so.

Besides wanting Jaylen to stay a Celtic for 5 years, I think the Celtics are missing a great PR opportunity here.

You don't have to be Clouseau to figure out where Tatum's $25MM underpayment went. I'd hate for the Celtics/Brad/Wyc/Zarren to come off as "too cute" with contracts. Tatum wasn't blaming them, but I'm sure Agents have an opinion/agenda that's different than Boston.
 

Auger34

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I don't want to speak for him, but I think so.

Besides wanting Jaylen to stay a Celtic for 5 years, I think the Celtics are missing a great PR opportunity here.

You don't have to be Clouseau to figure out where Tatum's $25MM underpayment went. I'd hate for the Celtics/Brad/Wyc/Zarren to come off as "too cute" with contracts. Tatum wasn't blaming them, but I'm sure Agents have an opinion/agenda that's different than Boston.
It’s an opportunity to engender goodwill and help change the opinion of the Celtics organization amongst players and agents.
At the very least, it’s something that the braintrust can point to as an example of how they care about their players and want them to get all of the recognition and accolades they deserve.

The more that this topic is talked about, the more that it seems like this is a real blind spot for the organization where they have failed to adapt to the changing times. The fact that the only campaigning any of us can come up with is a tepid campaign to help Smart win the DPOY (and their efforts were completely blown out of the water by Puma and Smart himself) isn’t great.
I think Morey has done more campaigning on Twitter in the past month for Embiid and Harden. Yes, I know that All-NBA for JB means the Celtics have to pay more….and I don’t give a shit. Top 30 talent is the hardest thing to find in the NBA. It’s tremendously stupid to try and get cute and nibble on the edges when you have it. As Teddykgb famously once said, “Pay that man his money”
 

HomeRunBaker

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It’s an opportunity to engender goodwill and help change the opinion of the Celtics organization amongst players and agents.
At the very least, it’s something that the braintrust can point to as an example of how they care about their players and want them to get all of the recognition and accolades they deserve.

The more that this topic is talked about, the more that it seems like this is a real blind spot for the organization where they have failed to adapt to the changing times. The fact that the only campaigning any of us can come up with is a tepid campaign to help Smart win the DPOY (and their efforts were completely blown out of the water by Puma and Smart himself) isn’t great.
I think Morey has done more campaigning on Twitter in the past month for Embiid and Harden. Yes, I know that All-NBA for JB means the Celtics have to pay more….and I don’t give a shit. Top 30 talent is the hardest thing to find in the NBA. It’s tremendously stupid to try and get cute and nibble on the edges when you have it. As Teddykgb famously once said, “Pay that man his money”
Ah, the goodwill of paying your #2 a $290m deal lol. I know I’m in the minority but I have trouble wrapping my hands around this being something Wyc and his investors would be excited about doing.
 

Smokey Joe

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Just to make sure that this is part of the discussion. There are journalists that are turned off by teams campaigning for their players and obvious and excessive pushing can be penalized. There are teams and GMs that do this and others that do not.
So, have the Celtics engaged in this sort of thing before?
 

RorschachsMask

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Ah, the goodwill of paying your #2 a $290m deal lol. I know I’m in the minority but I have trouble wrapping my hands around this being something Wyc and his investors would be excited about doing.
I don’t think it’s something they’d love doing, but I also think they’d do it in a heartbeat.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don’t think it’s something they’d love doing, but I also think they’d do it in a heartbeat.
I disagree that they would do this in a heartbeat. I’m not certain they won’t move him first. Who knows. I just don’t think this is a slam dunk that’s going to happen. We shall see.
 

TripleOT

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If the Celts win the title this year, one of the things that made it possible is the underpayment on what should have been Tatum’s supermax contract, which gave them salary flexibility to put big money into complementary players like White and Brodgon.

As Tatum’s national profile grows, due to the success of his team, he can make up much of that money on national commercials and brand enhancement.
 

benhogan

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When Tatum demands a trade, Wyc can go to JT with

You're thinking about this all wrong. Your money is in Malcolm's house, that's right next to yours and the Williams' house...

It worked for George Bailey :)

Ah, the goodwill of paying your #2 a $290m deal lol. I know I’m in the minority but I have trouble wrapping my hands around this being something Wyc and his investors would be excited about doing.
That is a really concentrated bet, which probably doesn't excite you...

While I'm all in on Team Jaylen, I won't begrudge Brad if he does move him. They are pretty damn good with cap flexibility, relative to other NBA teams. Once Jaylen signs a Super Max a lot of the flexibility goes away.
 

Auger34

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Ah, the goodwill of paying your #2 a $290m deal lol. I know I’m in the minority but I have trouble wrapping my hands around this being something Wyc and his investors would be excited about doing.
It gives the organization goodwill but it ensures them getting to keep their 2nd best player (by the way, werent you one of the people on the crusade about Grant Williams being so much more than an “8th man” because he’s better than other 8th men? Isn’t that the exact same thing here) and a top 25 player overall.
 

HomeRunBaker

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When Tatum demands a trade, Wyc can go to JT with

You're thinking about this all wrong. Your money is in Malcolm's house, that's right next to yours and the Williams' house...

It worked for George Bailey :)


That is a really concentrated bet, which probably doesn't excite you...

While I'm all in on Team Jaylen, I won't begrudge Brad if he does move him. They are pretty damn good with cap flexibility, relative to other NBA teams. Once Jaylen signs a Super Max a lot of the flexibility goes away.
That’s the thing. Wyc calls these shots and history suggest he values that flexibility between past actions and Jaylen trade rumors. We obv wouldn’t be moving him for a bag of balls but I’d imagine there are deals that doesn’t hurt the team while providing them with options that two super maxes will prevent.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It gives the organization goodwill but it ensures them getting to keep their 2nd best player (by the way, werent you one of the people on the crusade about Grant Williams being so much more than an “8th man” because he’s better than other 8th men? Isn’t that the exact same thing here) and a top 25 player overall.
Yes I still believe that and still believe that Wyc isn’t paying Grant the type of money others will offer him. There is a long list of role players that we let go for this reason without blinking an eye…..Posey, Olynyk, Big Baby (traded as expiring knowing we weren’t going to pay him), then of course there was Rondo and Isaiah. So no, I certsinly don’t expect Grant to be a Celtic next season but that’s a little different than Jaylen whose contract situation is still not yet determined at this point.
 

Auger34

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Yes I still believe that and still believe that Wyc isn’t paying Grant the type of money others will offer him. There is a long list of role players that we let go for this reason without blinking an eye…..Posey, Olynyk, Big Baby (traded as expiring knowing we weren’t going to pay him), then of course there was Rondo and Isaiah. So no, I certsinly don’t expect Grant to be a Celtic next season but that’s a little different than Jaylen whose contract situation is still not yet determined at this point.
That’s not what I was getting at. Your whole point in correcting people about Grant was that even though he was the 8th man, hes better than an 8th man on most teams in the league.
You did the exact same thing you were correcting people with Grant when discussing Jaylen.
 

128

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I disagree that they would do this in a heartbeat. I’m not certain they won’t move him first. Who knows. I just don’t think this is a slam dunk that’s going to happen. We shall see.
I'm guessing a lot will depend on how these playoffs go. If the C's win it all, Wyc and Co. ain't breaking up the Jays. If the C's fall short of or lose (again) in the Finals, maybe the braintrust starts considering other options.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Back in 2011 Forbes had the Warriors as the 13th most valuable franchise. This year they were the most valuable team in Forbes' list, the first time in two decades that the most valuable franchise wasn't the Knicks or Lakers.

Setting aside the values which are largely theoretical, lets state some things that appear obvious. First, to date, owning an NBA franchise is a pretty lucrative investment.

Furthermore, it appears that teams values tend to increase partly as a function of stars and winning. Maybe that isn't right but it certainly feels that way given how the league operates.

What is my point - its entirely possible that Wyc/ownership might have been tight fisted in the past but its also possible that they may be willing to spend going forward because they know it helps their ownership stakes.

In short, there are scenarios where the Cs owners actually benefit by paying Brown the supermax, as counterintuitive as it sounds.

Incidentally, the Cs were the fourth most valuable franchise in 2011 and the fifth most this season (essentially the Warriors leapfrogged everyone) so their position in the hierarchy didnt change but the valuation is something like 10X higher. Its not a bad investment, even if you have to spend a fair bit of money on upgrades.
 
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HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
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Jan 15, 2004
30,234
That’s not what I was getting at. Your whole point in correcting people about Grant was that even though he was the 8th man, hes better than an 8th man on most teams in the league.
You did the exact same thing you were correcting people with Grant when discussing Jaylen.
To be clear I voiced my opinion which is the core of this board….I never “corrected” anyone on what their opinion was. My opinion is that others offer more than we will be willing to pay Grant…..that isn’t what I’m saying about Jaylen at all so unsure of the comparison.


I'm guessing a lot will depend on how these playoffs go. If the C's win it all, Wyc and Co. ain't breaking up the Jays. If the C's fall short of or lose (again) in the Finals, maybe the braintrust starts considering other options.
Yes I agree this would play a large factor.
 

Koufax

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Lifetime Member
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Yeah, I'd buy one myself but I can't afford the maintenance costs. ;)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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Abby started broadcast tonight with "Jaylen Brown, Celtics Forward" with heavy emphasis on the forward. Guess we're going to start hearing more of this. Maybe POBOBS reads BenHogan's posts?
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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I fully admit that I struggle with NBA contracts, trade rules, etc. That said, is Jaylen as an expiring contract next season worth more in what the Cs could get back in a trade, than Jaylen under a 5 year Supermax in say, year 2, if the Celtics decide to move on?
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
9,405
I fully admit that I struggle with NBA contracts, trade rules, etc. That said, is Jaylen as an expiring contract next season worth more in what the Cs could get back in a trade, than Jaylen under a 5 year Supermax in say, year 2, if the Celtics decide to move on?
I was wondering about this myself. IMO, the Celtics are smart enough to know that Jaylen’s not goinf to have massive value on the trade market at this point. I would guess that if they had any qualms about signing Jaylen to the supermax he wouldn’t be on the team anymore
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
18,160
I fully admit that I struggle with NBA contracts, trade rules, etc. That said, is Jaylen as an expiring contract next season worth more in what the Cs could get back in a trade, than Jaylen under a 5 year Supermax in say, year 2, if the Celtics decide to move on?
I was wondering about this myself. IMO, the Celtics are smart enough to know that Jaylen’s not goinf to have massive value on the trade market at this point. I would guess that if they had any qualms about signing Jaylen to the supermax he wouldn’t be on the team anymore
Literally the only trade that made any semblance of sense this past offseason involving Jaylen was in part of a package for KD. Exactly how much due diligence the Celtics did around that possibility remains an unknown, but it seems reasonable to assume that at least some exploring around such a trade was done (hard to take all media reports at face value due to the gaming of the media done by GMs and agents). But other than KD, I do not see any package that would have returned anything of value to a team that is desperately trying to get back to the Finals.

I think one key difference is that if the Celtics were to try to trade Brown this coming offseason, there will be knowledge around NBA circles that the team has to trade him. And anyone trading for him would potentially be getting a rental. So I think any return this offseason would be hugely disappointing to the majority of members here, myself included.

The hypothetical return in year 2 of a supermax is harder to predict. I think if JB is healthy, the return would be quite solid; the money would not really be a holdup other than just trying to make the numbers work. Biggest risk of the supermax is health, but that is true of any player on the supermax.
 

TripleOT

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Jul 4, 2007
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Ramadan ends on April 20 this year. During Ramadan, the Celtics have one day game, the final one of the regular season, versus Atlanta. The playoff opener might be a day game also. Unlike some seasons, when Ramadan ran mostly or completely during the playoffs, it will not be much of an issue for players like Brown who fast during Ramadan, and cannot hydrate between dawn and sundown.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Literally the only trade that made any semblance of sense this past offseason involving Jaylen was in part of a package for KD. Exactly how much due diligence the Celtics did around that possibility remains an unknown, but it seems reasonable to assume that at least some exploring around such a trade was done (hard to take all media reports at face value due to the gaming of the media done by GMs and agents). But other than KD, I do not see any package that would have returned anything of value to a team that is desperately trying to get back to the Finals.

I think one key difference is that if the Celtics were to try to trade Brown this coming offseason, there will be knowledge around NBA circles that the team has to trade him. And anyone trading for him would potentially be getting a rental. So I think any return this offseason would be hugely disappointing to the majority of members here, myself included.

The hypothetical return in year 2 of a supermax is harder to predict. I think if JB is healthy, the return would be quite solid; the money would not really be a holdup other than just trying to make the numbers work. Biggest risk of the supermax is health, but that is true of any player on the supermax.
IMO Brown should only get moved if he demands a trade or Brad has any inclination that he won't resign. Next season would be a shitshow if this isn't resolved by the start of next season. Brown playing out his contract and signing with another team in UFA shouldn't be an option. Letting Kyrie, in his prime, sign elsewhere with no return was one of Danny's biggest mistakes.

While it was debated last summer, I had no interest in Boston dealing Brown+ for Durant in the Fall or last month. KD is old & brittle. He has battled injuries all year and it will only get worse over the next few seasons. I'd put a line through past, older All-Stars: Brad Beal, Dame Lillard, AD, Paul George, Jimmy Butler or any other NBA geriatric superstar.

A lot would depend on where JB wanted to play/sign long-term, but here is a short list of names that would potentially be in play:
1. JJJ + Desmond Bane
2. Anthony Edwards
3. Mikal Bridges + Nic Claxton+
4. Pascal Siakam + OG Anunoby+
5. Devin Booker
6. Bam Adebayo++
7. Julius Randle+
8. Brandon Ingram++
9. Zach LaVine++

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for a trade, my #1 choice would be to extend Brown this summer. BUT since a few people have said they would rather not pay a #2 the Super Max may as well spill some internet ink on it. I'd lean toward the top of that list.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,234
Literally the only trade that made any semblance of sense this past offseason involving Jaylen was in part of a package for KD. Exactly how much due diligence the Celtics did around that possibility remains an unknown, but it seems reasonable to assume that at least some exploring around such a trade was done (hard to take all media reports at face value due to the gaming of the media done by GMs and agents). But other than KD, I do not see any package that would have returned anything of value to a team that is desperately trying to get back to the Finals.

I think one key difference is that if the Celtics were to try to trade Brown this coming offseason, there will be knowledge around NBA circles that the team has to trade him. And anyone trading for him would potentially be getting a rental. So I think any return this offseason would be hugely disappointing to the majority of members here, myself included.

The hypothetical return in year 2 of a supermax is harder to predict. I think if JB is healthy, the return would be quite solid; the money would not really be a holdup other than just trying to make the numbers work. Biggest risk of the supermax is health, but that is true of any player on the supermax.
I disagree that the only thing out there is/was Durant. Star players are always becoming available and/or looking to move on. Dallas fans are probably saying the same thing right now about not getting back fair value for Doncic before he forces a trade. Hmmmm