Now that this pipe dream is over, can we please get some insight on what they’re actually working on?
Red Sox in season discussion
- Thread starter Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat
- Start date
I mean do we want Chaim to pull a G38 and get on here and answer all our questions? Or do we want a very smart person who has a plan that a multi-billion dollar owner that wants more MLB championships has OK'd to continue to build the team? People need to chill and wait for the big picture, not a snap shot of this very moment
Did you follow the lock out at all? Like I feel like I should let you read back a couple pages about how the owners of teams like PITT didn't want a higher "cap", because they "can't afford to pay" players that much. Not all owners are created the same. Better yet, what is your reasoning for making this statement?
How about instead of rumored interest in all these players he actually pulls the trigger and actually acquires one of them? It’s frustrating as hell man. I mean we’re about to begin spring training games and we’re gonna trot Jackie Bradley Jr out there as a starter?
Either that, or Heyman's carrying someone's water again to try the cloud the discussion on Freddie's team overplaying its hand on contract demands.
Since when is a WS won in the off-season and not on the field?
How many times since the dodgers had new ownership did everyone declare them the NYY of the NL? They did that last year. Did they win the WS?
You mean the guy that has been on the other end of all these phone calls? You'd think he might know better than us what's going on. Again, do we want Chaim tipping off to the world what the Sox are looking for just to appease SOSH?
The fact that some Red Sox big ticket free agent signings did not go well is not a reason to NEVER sign any big ticket free agents. It's caution against that being your central organizing principal. But isn't one of the reasons for building up the farm to give you cover to sign some free agents? I don't see, really, how the team will win without doing that ...Manny? Schilling? Foulke? Damon? ....
I'm sometimes surprised at the intellectual jujitsu folks do to defend anything Bloom does ... I thought he was waiting for the new CBA to sign a bunch of free agents. Wasn't that the plan folks were so certain about? Oh, no, now he has an even better master plan. And if you criticize him, you're a Debbie Downer, or a dunce.
Maybe Bloom is really good at certain aspects of his job, and weaker at others (like Ben Cherington, for example). But the evidence keeps piling up: he doesn't like to spend - prospects or money.
...I hope he can pull off some profitable trades, because right now the 2022 squad is certainly weaker than the 2021 squad. Head scratching that he fortified a team that came only two games from the WS, but had clear weaknesses, by trading Renfroe and adding a bunch of spare parts ....
Well, I hope he pulls a rabbit out of his hat, I do.
I'm sometimes surprised at the intellectual jujitsu folks do to defend anything Bloom does ... I thought he was waiting for the new CBA to sign a bunch of free agents. Wasn't that the plan folks were so certain about? Oh, no, now he has an even better master plan. And if you criticize him, you're a Debbie Downer, or a dunce.
Maybe Bloom is really good at certain aspects of his job, and weaker at others (like Ben Cherington, for example). But the evidence keeps piling up: he doesn't like to spend - prospects or money.
...I hope he can pull off some profitable trades, because right now the 2022 squad is certainly weaker than the 2021 squad. Head scratching that he fortified a team that came only two games from the WS, but had clear weaknesses, by trading Renfroe and adding a bunch of spare parts ....
Well, I hope he pulls a rabbit out of his hat, I do.
It might be good to remember that Bloom doesn't exactly have full control of who he signs. The players get a say. If Freeman (or anyone else) took less money to go play in a different city that he prefers to play in, what do you expect Bloom to do? If the Red Sox don't make a big splash, people are going to lean hard on that narrative of Bloom not being willing to pursue big ticket FA's, but is it really fair to make that conclusion? We don't know what offers he made.
4 teams voted against the deal. The Red Sox are not one of those "poor" teams
I'm disappointed that one of Schwarber or Suzuki isn't in the fold, but Freeman and Correa don't make a ton of sense positionally for where Bloom wants the sox to go beyond this season.
I agree that a right-hand bat is absolutely needed, one that can play the outfield. Castellanos and Soler are probably the options. Bloom is probably watching the market settle, and seeing where the value lies, which he's done time and again. It's not sexy and requires patience, but he's going to find guys that will fit the team's needs now and going forward. Signing Freeman to block Casas (making him a DH so young seems ill-advised, and jettisoning Dalbec-- I'm still a card-carrier of the Bobby D fanclub-- in the process seems very un-Bloom). Trading for Olson would've made more sense in some ways. Same with signing Correa, having a messy Bogaerts situation and potentially blocking guys like Mayer down the road (nothing is set in stone, but the franchise believes this is the SS of the not too distant future).
I also think that with an interrupted hot stove and truncated spring training, any signing made with a trade following to create space for the signee is even more difficult (like Correa if bogaerts is opposed to moving off of short, which he should be). The real options to improve the team now were and still are adding bats to the outfield imo. Bloom can still do damage there. Pitching, relief and starting, help would also be welcome
What bloom does need to do is work out extensions with Bogaerts and Devers, one or both, whatever he envisions going forward. Bogaerts might like a deal where he can opt out around the time Mayer is projected to break in. That could work for both parties. You don't have to spend money on free agent to make good purchases.
Edit: I'll add that if you want a big impact bat, I'm trading for Jose Ramirez. I really don't want to think about him playing second base, but his bat in the lineup with his contract would be phenomenal. You'd pay through the nose to get it though.
I agree that a right-hand bat is absolutely needed, one that can play the outfield. Castellanos and Soler are probably the options. Bloom is probably watching the market settle, and seeing where the value lies, which he's done time and again. It's not sexy and requires patience, but he's going to find guys that will fit the team's needs now and going forward. Signing Freeman to block Casas (making him a DH so young seems ill-advised, and jettisoning Dalbec-- I'm still a card-carrier of the Bobby D fanclub-- in the process seems very un-Bloom). Trading for Olson would've made more sense in some ways. Same with signing Correa, having a messy Bogaerts situation and potentially blocking guys like Mayer down the road (nothing is set in stone, but the franchise believes this is the SS of the not too distant future).
I also think that with an interrupted hot stove and truncated spring training, any signing made with a trade following to create space for the signee is even more difficult (like Correa if bogaerts is opposed to moving off of short, which he should be). The real options to improve the team now were and still are adding bats to the outfield imo. Bloom can still do damage there. Pitching, relief and starting, help would also be welcome
What bloom does need to do is work out extensions with Bogaerts and Devers, one or both, whatever he envisions going forward. Bogaerts might like a deal where he can opt out around the time Mayer is projected to break in. That could work for both parties. You don't have to spend money on free agent to make good purchases.
Edit: I'll add that if you want a big impact bat, I'm trading for Jose Ramirez. I really don't want to think about him playing second base, but his bat in the lineup with his contract would be phenomenal. You'd pay through the nose to get it though.
Last edited:
Soler is an option but everything out there suggests he's a poor defensive outfielder, so I don't see him being a very good fit. Maybe on a short deal, but probably someone will pay much more for him as a DH.
Yeah. Soler is just a body you pencil in as outfielder only by name.
I'll be interested in seeing what he signs for.
I really don't think it's jujitsu, so much as people trying to infer a sense of what a Bloom-led FO is like and will do. The idea that he's going to run the team identically to Tampa is just wildly premature because we haven't seen an entire success cycle. We can decide we already know what he's going to do if we want, but it's worth noting that he's defied general expectations basically every step of the way since the Mookie Betts trade — which, safe to say, we saw coming.
I think the FO has reloaded the farm system way faster than any of us expected; I think they brought the team back into contention way faster than any of us expected; and I think they had a fantastic trade deadline that many people here loathed.
And in any case, are we even done with the offseason?
Bloom is a patient, bargain basement shopper. He’s waiting for all the big names to sign and see what value is left on the table. I don’t think the Sox were “all in” on any free agent this year. Maybe they did make a fair offer for Freeman but they aren’t going to overpay if he’s leaning LAD. The Sox are likely to be sellers at the deadline, anyway.
I’m generally with you, but I share others’ concerns about the lack of news and the dwindling number of good players available. I defended the Renfroe deal, even though no one else liked the prospects we bought nearly as much as CB did, but that deal created a hole that absolutely had to be filled from the outside. There’s still time for that to happen, but with Suzuki and Schwarber off the board, and even some of the bargain options (Rizzo, et al.), it’s fair to be concerned, even for those of us who think CB has done a terrific job.
For what Schwarber and Suzuki signed for, (especially Kyle) I don’t think the Sox were ever in serious running for either player. I think Bloom has a number in his mind at what he considers a value point for a player. I think Schwarber did want to come back but he wasn’t sitting around waiting for Bloom to call with the season approaching.
Really what it comes down to, though, are that SS and 1B are not areas where the Sox need to be investing at this very moment in time. We can rationalize why they should/could but P, 2B, OF are bigger needs.
There are worse plans than seeing how the X situations shake out and how Dalbec does / how fast Cassas gets up here. It’s not like we have Spike Owen at short and no organizational depth at 1B.
There are worse plans than seeing how the X situations shake out and how Dalbec does / how fast Cassas gets up here. It’s not like we have Spike Owen at short and no organizational depth at 1B.
I’m totally with you on Freeman, but they do need an outfielder. Doesn’t need to be a superstar; just someone who can replace Renfroe’s production and not embarrass himself in LF. (They can move Verdugo to RF.) I don’t think Bloom is going to find that in the bargain bin, but I’ve been wrong before.
Agree that P is a priority; they let E-Rod, Robbie Ray, Kevin Gausman, Noah Syndergard, Marcus Stroman, and Carlos Rodon sign non-crippling deals elsewhere without getting involved.
I've had faith in the FO and I still do. But the question is, when exactly will be the time to spend? Right now the payroll is 180 million, about 50 mil under the tax. New year, 70+ mil comes off the books in Xander (assuming he opts out), Eovaldi, Price, and JDM. Next year's FA class isn't strong, especially if the Yanks extend Judge, which seems likely. Is the plan going forward to still be high payroll but with a different blend of Michael Wachas and James Paxtons every year?
Let's not forget that Renfroe was in the bargain bin himself. Hard to think he can't be replaced via that route.
Yup, there is no way 5 year ago JBJ was an optimal outfielder for a championship team much less today JBJ. They absolutely 100% need a solution at OF. Man, Duran pooping all over himself at his 2021 audition really stings.
My guess is that they’ll sign two 45 cent outfielders for a dollar given what’s out there.
In terms of big splashes on offense, there aren't many obvious non-free agent signings out there.
Among right-handed hitters, the best ones who may be available on the trade market are Bryan Reynolds who hasn't been open to an extension in Pittsburgh and Jose Ramirez who is in the final two years of his cheap deal. Both of those guys would be tough to grab, but they make more sense than spending a trillion on Correa or a billion on Story. Ramirez isn't a perfect fit because of his position, but he did play 2b earlier in his career.
Personally I'd be all in on Reynolds who is arb eligible beginning this season.
Other than that, I think we need to be prepared they may just exercise restraint.
Among right-handed hitters, the best ones who may be available on the trade market are Bryan Reynolds who hasn't been open to an extension in Pittsburgh and Jose Ramirez who is in the final two years of his cheap deal. Both of those guys would be tough to grab, but they make more sense than spending a trillion on Correa or a billion on Story. Ramirez isn't a perfect fit because of his position, but he did play 2b earlier in his career.
Personally I'd be all in on Reynolds who is arb eligible beginning this season.
Other than that, I think we need to be prepared they may just exercise restraint.
I don't really pay too much attention to other teams so I don't have much insight into who would be a good trade partner, but from my limited understanding here, I'm guessing that Bloom is going that route rather than the FA market. As someone up thread pointed out- that's where the Sox have always brought in more value. I just don't see who/where there's a good trade partner
They are already spending 20 mil on a SS two years older than Correa and far worse in the field, and his price tag is going to go way up after his year. So unless the plan is to fill that spot too with the best one or two year FA money can buy, maybe going all in on a star who will be 27 this year with Yankees and Dodgers not around to jack up the price is as good an opportunity for high end FA as they will ever get?
I’d expect someone like Tommy Pham; he has historically hit lefties well and could platoon with Bradley, although he’s mostly played LF. Jonathan Villar has been mentioned here and would provide depth in the IF at multiple positions alongside Arroyo.
If they decide to add another SP, Drew Smyly could be a fit. Could go in another direction and look at Kenley Jansen but that seems unlikely. Archie Bradley might be worth a look?
If they decide to add another SP, Drew Smyly could be a fit. Could go in another direction and look at Kenley Jansen but that seems unlikely. Archie Bradley might be worth a look?
Last edited:
Serious questions. Which of the free agents that have already been signed would you have liked Bloom to have signed? Keep in mind the contracts that they signed and what would you may have done to beat those offers. What remaining FAs do you see as a fit for this team and what contract would you feel comfortable offering? I'll start...I would have been comfortable with Marte, Schwarber, Canha or Jon Gray at or near what they signed for. Remaining needs, I think Jonathon Villar might be a fit at two years 13M and of the remaining OF either Soler at 36M for 3 years or 26M for 2 and maybe if no one bites on his demands you might get Castellanos short term.
He won't be ready for Opening Day, but Kyle Lewis is suddenly semi-blocked in Seattle. I'm curious if they might be willing to sell low on him, or if tbe Sox would be interested.
If you think Bloom has done a terrific job, doesn’t it follow that you should at least wait until the off-season ends and the regular season starts to decide whether or not he made a mistake in trading Renfroe or in not signing Schwarber or Freeman? I‘d personally been rooting for a Schwarber signing because I came to like him and felt like he was a good fit here, but am I stunned Bloom went in another direction? Of course not. Suzuki sounded interesting and I would have been fine with it, but none of us have any idea how interested the Sox ever were. Freeman? Many of us pointed out how unlikely that was to actually happen. As for Renfroe, Bloom brought him in for basically nothing, got a good season out of him, and turned him around for prospects. It doesn’t take Kris Bryant to replace him, and I’m confident that Bloom will. What is the had-to-get-him, we’re-in-rough-shape-now signing that we missed out on?
Heading into the off-season, my thought was that the plan for 2022 was another year of competing for the wild card with an outside shot at the division, then a pivot to true contention in 2023. After the new CBA, however, I speculated that the higher tax threshold and the universal DH may have opened the window sooner, and I wondered if the Sox would go big this season by signing a slugger and perhaps trading Martinez. I’m open to having been wrong about the accelerated time line. Perhaps Bloom plans to keep the powder dry for another season. But perhaps not! There’s still plenty of time for him to do damage in this off-season. The point is we just don’t know and I don’t quite grasp the worry at this point.
Bloom hasn’t yet won a championship, but in the fifteen minutes he’s been here he has dramatically improved the farm system; injected talent up and down the 40-man; fielded a team at the start of last season that many at SOSH didn’t like but that played very well; added players at the trade deadline that many at SOSH didn’t like but that solidified the team when it needed steadying; and made it to game 6 of the ALCS.
No matter what moves Bloom ends up making, sexy or not, I’m confident the Sox will field a competitive team this season. But even if others disagree, let’s at least give him a full off-season to put the roster together. I just can’t fathom the gloom and doom around here. This is a great time to be a Red Sox fan.
QUICK EDIT: In rereading I realize that I switched from responding to one post to addressing an entire segment of the board. I didn’t find Mauf’s post to be at all gloom and doom!
Last edited:
I believe Renfroe was a well-executed buy low-sell high transaction overall. I am pretty confident they can replace his overall production even if it is a no-name platoon kind of setup; I find worrying about replacing that type of player misplaced. Let's see how next week or two plays out before we worry about replacing guys of that tier.
Isn't Michael Conforto a pretty interesting fit? He's surely a better player than Renfroe if healthy (which I realizea is a question with him) even acknowledging some defensive questions. Soler being a RHB may fit better, but those are quality bats each of whom projects better than Renfroe. Tommy Pham another name, though I worry a bit about decline phase there---still, projects better than Renfroe. We'll see; I don't think this has all played out yet.
Isn't Michael Conforto a pretty interesting fit? He's surely a better player than Renfroe if healthy (which I realizea is a question with him) even acknowledging some defensive questions. Soler being a RHB may fit better, but those are quality bats each of whom projects better than Renfroe. Tommy Pham another name, though I worry a bit about decline phase there---still, projects better than Renfroe. We'll see; I don't think this has all played out yet.
Conforto hitting from the left side along with JBJ, Verdugo and Duran hurts his cause a bit.
Conforto is interesting, but has the QO attached. Is a short-term (one year? two years?) deal with him worth sacrificing the draft pick? Does the prospect of no longer having to give up picks like that impact the decision to let this one go? Not too enthusiastic about him being LHH given the handedness of the rest of the outfield.
Pham seems like a Bloom target though. Short term commitment, makes a reasonable platoon partner for JBJ, has experience at all three OF positions. Defense is questionable, but no worse than other available options.
Tommy Pham is the best option from a storytelling perspective.
In 2018, Chaim Bloom trades for Pham in a deal with the St. Louis Cardinals.
After a very solid season and a half for the Rays, in 2019 Bloom deals Pham to the San Diego Padres for... Hunter Renfroe.
Bloom jumps to the Sox in 2020. One of his most savvy moves is plucking Hunter Renfroe off the waiver wire from the Rays.
After a very solid stint with the Sox, Bloom ships Renfroe off to the Brewers for prospects and a fan favorite in JBJ. To fill the hole left by Renfroe's departure, Bloom signs old friend Tommy Pham.
In 2018, Chaim Bloom trades for Pham in a deal with the St. Louis Cardinals.
After a very solid season and a half for the Rays, in 2019 Bloom deals Pham to the San Diego Padres for... Hunter Renfroe.
Bloom jumps to the Sox in 2020. One of his most savvy moves is plucking Hunter Renfroe off the waiver wire from the Rays.
After a very solid stint with the Sox, Bloom ships Renfroe off to the Brewers for prospects and a fan favorite in JBJ. To fill the hole left by Renfroe's departure, Bloom signs old friend Tommy Pham.
I remain disappointed at not landing Suzuki. He was such a huge positional need, the money was not too prohibitive, and is young enough to be a factor when the kids start getting to Boston in the next 1-3 years. Always a risk when dealing with an unproven (in MLB) talent but he checked off all of the boxes for me. Now? We're lefty paying a ton of money for Correa who doesn't really solve a positional need and invites a bunch of potential Bogaerts issues or a bunch of cheaper, less exciting options. To me, combined with the Sale news, this would start to have the feel of the dreaded "bridge" year. There is enough talent this year to dream on a surprise season like last year but there currently are some clear holes that need to be resolved.
If Story is interested in playing 2B, I would be pretty excited about that potential move. Last year was a down year but the previous 3 were really good. Some real bounce back potential here. Get him on a short, prove it deal and another OF and things start to look much better.
If Story is interested in playing 2B, I would be pretty excited about that potential move. Last year was a down year but the previous 3 were really good. Some real bounce back potential here. Get him on a short, prove it deal and another OF and things start to look much better.
Pham is in interesting idea and perhaps the kind of profile Bloom likes. What would it take to get him? Is he strictly a platoon player at this point?
For the record, Heyman himself reported that a team (widely believed to be the Mariners) offered Story a handsome sum of money to switch positions earlier in the off-season. He turned it down (obviously).
Is the Story rumor more nonsense from Heyman? I’m struggling a bit with seeing how it would work. I like the idea of having Bogaerts insurance, but reports suggest they haven’t yet approached him about at extension. So bringing in Story with the idea of him replacing X, when they haven’t made an all out effort to keep X, seems really risky from a team chemistry POV.
As noted earlier in thread, Story to 2B (at least for a year) makes a lot of sense for Sox. It is easy to imagine it makes more sense for Story now---with many teams done shopping and Rockies likely having filled his spot---than it did earlier in offseason. But that doesn't mean he'll do it, either.
As for Castellanos little chance Sox have not checked in. Sometimes we confuse "what has team done" with "what has been leaked/reported" and thus far last offseason and this we don't have a ton of Sox leaks, imo. So there is likely a gap between those two things.
I've been preaching it for a long time on main board, but imo we do a lot better if we simply assume teams are being diligent and making reasonable choices than we do trying to parse news reports and/or assume they are fully true or fully inclusive of all discussions. So, to me, fact Castellanos is a potential fit makes it highly likely Sox have checked in and are trying to balance defense questions, age, and contract demands against their other options---many of which have been named in the last dozen posts. Focusing too much on what is and isn't reported is not overall super helpful---though it is worth noting as one part of a larger analysis.
As for Castellanos little chance Sox have not checked in. Sometimes we confuse "what has team done" with "what has been leaked/reported" and thus far last offseason and this we don't have a ton of Sox leaks, imo. So there is likely a gap between those two things.
I've been preaching it for a long time on main board, but imo we do a lot better if we simply assume teams are being diligent and making reasonable choices than we do trying to parse news reports and/or assume they are fully true or fully inclusive of all discussions. So, to me, fact Castellanos is a potential fit makes it highly likely Sox have checked in and are trying to balance defense questions, age, and contract demands against their other options---many of which have been named in the last dozen posts. Focusing too much on what is and isn't reported is not overall super helpful---though it is worth noting as one part of a larger analysis.
He was actually worse against LH than RH last year, but not significantly. He has really been mediocre in 20-21 with a big drop in SLG, but was excellent in 17-19. He’s 34, so his best days are probably behind him. There’s definitely some risk but I think the potential reward is there. As far as cost, something like 1 year, $8M with a club option / buyout? Is that realistic?
It was reported early on that he was seeking 7 years and/or 25M AAV. I'm guessing he gets less, but how long might it take for him to agree to that? I believe there might be QO concerns as well.