Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

Jack Rabbit Slim

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Leave Kike in his natural position in center, Andrus/Kim for SS, Iglesias for 2B, Ref backs up the outfield and Arroyo the infield.
I just don’t see how they can go into the season with the only real RHH power threat being Turner. I agree Arroyo seems prone to injuries, but he can be backed up by Ref, Valdez, and whoever the backup MI is (maybe Iggy anyway depending on costs?). I guess it just comes down to me believing more in Arroyo and you believing more in Refsnyder.

BTW if I gave the impression I wanted to move Kike from CF that is not what I am suggesting.
 

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The problem with signing two guys right now is the 40 man roster. Once spring training begins you can put Story on the 60 day IL to open up a spot.
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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I think people are putting way too much stock in Iggy‘s Sept 2021 and memory of him being great defensively at the beginning of his career, but he isn’t really that guy anymore. If Arroyo and Iggy are both on the team, Arroyo should be starting over Iggy at 2B.

Outside of a hot streak during the Covid season, Iggy has pretty consistently been well below average offensively (last 5 yrs OPS+ of 88, 83, 157, 89, 90) whereas you can see some growth and upside from Arroyo (104, 83, 93, 103, 103).

Even defensively, Arroyo may be the better defender now. At the very least they are comparable.

DRS
Arroyo: +2, +5, +4
Iglesias: -2, -22 (0 @ 2B), -4

UZR/150
Arroyo: +5.7, +7.8, +3.1
Iglesias: +6.3, -10.3 (+0.4 @ 2B), +3.1

OAA
Arroyo: -1, +1, 0
Iglesias: +3, 0 (+1 @ 2B), 0
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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The problem with signing two guys right now is the 40 man roster. Once spring training begins you can put Story on the 60 day IL to open up a spot.
How can a team with this many holes right now afford to care about losing Ort? If we are hoping to contend, would we rather have a real middle infielder or Brasier?

Does Brasier get his $2 million deal whether or not he's on the roster?
 

Sad Sam Jones

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How can a team with this many holes right now afford to care about losing Ort? If we are hoping to contend, would we rather have a real middle infielder or Brasier?

Does Brasier get his $2 million deal whether or not he's on the roster?
Yes, I believe since they agreed to a contract prior to arbitration, Brasier has a major league contract the same as any other. If the team had taken him to arbitration and lost, the contract would only be partially guaranteed. I think in that case, the team can release the player any time between the arbiter's decision and opening day for a portion of the contract (my quick googling didn't answer what percentage). Any arbitration-settled contract becomes guaranteed on opening day. Again, that's not relevant since they came to terms on an MLB contract.
 

simplicio

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I think people are putting way too much stock in Iggy‘s Sept 2021 and memory of him being great defensively at the beginning of his career, but he isn’t really that guy anymore. If Arroyo and Iggy are both on the team, Arroyo should be starting over Iggy at 2B.

Outside of a hot streak during the Covid season, Iggy has pretty consistently been well below average offensively (last 5 yrs OPS+ of 88, 83, 157, 89, 90) whereas you can see some growth and upside from Arroyo (104, 83, 93, 103, 103).

Even defensively, Arroyo may be the better defender now. At the very least they are comparable.

DRS
Arroyo: +2, +5, +4
Iglesias: -2, -22 (0 @ 2B), -4

UZR/150
Arroyo: +5.7, +7.8, +3.1
Iglesias: +6.3, -10.3 (+0.4 @ 2B), +3.1

OAA
Arroyo: -1, +1, 0
Iglesias: +3, 0 (+1 @ 2B), 0
I'm totally fine with Arroyo starting as long as we have a backup who's shown they're capable of holding down an MLB starting job and we aren't relying on Valdez or whomever if/when Arroyo goes down.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Can’t they get around the 40-man stuff by signing guys to minor league deals, like they did with Robles last year, and add them once they can DL guys and spots open up? Are there limits on what you can offer a player on a minor league deal?
 

jon abbey

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Can’t they get around the 40-man stuff by signing guys to minor league deals, like they did with Robles last year, and add them once they can DL guys and spots open up? Are there limits on what you can offer a player on a minor league deal?
The way this is normally done on the rare occasions that it is done is the team and player agree and they just don't announce anything until the start of spring training, I believe NY did this with Brett Gardner once or twice in recent years and I think they may be doing it with Zach Britton this year (NY traded one of their only two lefty relievers in Luetge and there was a lot of talk last year midseason that Britton felt bad about delivering so little in the final years of his huge deal and would come back for very little if Cashman wanted, although there was also a bit of buzz this week around a reunion of him and Buck on the Mets).

It's even possible BOS has already done this with Iglesias and/or Andrus, although I don't know how much it happens with players who weren't on that team previously. (of course this would be stint 3 for Sprowl's guy). Is Story the only 60 day candidate for BOS currently?
 

nvalvo

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The way this is normally done on the rare occasions that it is done is the team and player agree and they just don't announce anything until the start of spring training, I believe NY did this with Brett Gardner once or twice in recent years and I think they may be doing it with Zach Britton this year (NY traded one of their only two lefty relievers in Luetge and there was a lot of talk last year midseason that Britton felt bad about delivering so little in the final years of his huge deal and would come back for very little if Cashman wanted, although there was also a bit of buzz this week around a reunion of him and Buck on the Mets).

It's even possible BOS has already done this with Iglesias and/or Andrus, although I don't know how much it happens with players who weren't on that team previously. (of course this would be stint 3 for Sprowl's guy). Is Story the only 60 day candidate for BOS currently?
I haven't heard anything to this effect, but I expect that Paxton will start the season on the IL; that could easily be the 60-day.
 

simplicio

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I haven't heard any updates on Josh Taylor's health, don't know if he'll be ready to go.
I haven't heard anything to this effect, but I expect that Paxton will start the season on the IL; that could easily be the 60-day.
Paxton had a lat tear mid August; presumably he'll be good for spring training.

Unless this was meant as snark.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Can’t they get around the 40-man stuff by signing guys to minor league deals, like they did with Robles last year, and add them once they can DL guys and spots open up? Are there limits on what you can offer a player on a minor league deal?
There are no limits as far as I know. That Robles deal wasn't unique. I think most veterans who sign to minor league deals do so with an agreed to MLB salary should they be promoted. Usually those deals also have opt-outs for the player should they not be added to the 40-man by a certain date, like say a few days before Opening Day. Of course they all also have standard opt-outs during the season as well so they can seek other opportunities if they think they won't be promoted. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a couple of those types of deals in the next few weeks, and not just with the Sox.
 

jon abbey

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There are no limits as far as I know. That Robles deal wasn't unique. I think most veterans who sign to minor league deals do so with an agreed to MLB salary should they be promoted. Usually those deals also have opt-outs for the player should they not be added to the 40-man by a certain date, like say a few days before Opening Day. Of course they all also have standard opt-outs during the season as well so they can seek other opportunities if they think they won't be promoted. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a couple of those types of deals in the next few weeks, and not just with the Sox.
Yeah, but this is for the kind of veteran like Willie Calhoun and Ryan Weber and Greg Allen, guys who aren't going to get major league deals. Guys like Iglesias or Andrus are never going to go this route, too much demand and they can do better.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yeah, but this is for the kind of veteran like Willie Calhoun and Ryan Weber and Greg Allen, guys who aren't going to get major league deals. Guys like Iglesias or Andrus are never going to go this route, too much demand and they can do better.
Depends on what the salary offers are, no? Like if the Sox offer Andrus $6M as an MLB salary but he has to start on a minor league deal, and the best he can find anywhere else is a $3M MLB contract, would it be a slam dunk that he signs the MLB deal? Especially if he's told he's going to be added to the 40-man as soon as they can put Story on 60-day IL?

I agree that this is generally the path for guys who can't find an MLB contract. They're also usually for the veteran minimum if they do get promoted. But it is a possibility as a work around to the 40-man roster limit.
 

jon abbey

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Depends on what the salary offers are, no? Like if the Sox offer Andrus $6M as an MLB salary but he has to start on a minor league deal, and the best he can find anywhere else is a $3M MLB contract, would it be a slam dunk that he signs the MLB deal? Especially if he's told he's going to be added to the 40-man as soon as they can put Story on 60-day IL?
:Logically that all seems possible, but in reality I don't think this ever happens.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I’d imagine you could make it work by giving the player a large portion of his contract as a signing bonus to protect him in case of injury or if things changed before they could get added to the 40?

But it seems overly complicated and if the Sox are holding off on signing a major leaguer who could help because they don’t want to lose Zack Kelly or Kaleb Ort, seems like they could ultimately get burned.
 

JM3

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It's still 41 days until Spring Training. No harm in being patient & see what shakes free.

I'd rather they wait for an opportunity rather than do something just so the team looks better on paper in January, especially if it's something meh.
 

geoflin

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I'd like to see them sign Andrus or Iglesias but it's not like we're hearing rumors that either is negotiating with another interested team. The longer we wait and the longer they get no other offers the less expensive they're likely to be.
 

bsj

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I'd like to see them sign Andrus or Iglesias but it's not like we're hearing rumors that either is negotiating with another interested team. The longer we wait and the longer they get no other offers the less expensive they're likely to be.
I suspect, like Mancini (who I didnt want), the reality is the longer we wait the more likely they sign somewhere else.

I'd be down with Andrus and Duvall. I dont love them but they would both add something in a place that is needed. See where that gets us.
 

OCD SS

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I'd like to see them sign Andrus or Iglesias but it's not like we're hearing rumors that either is negotiating with another interested team. The longer we wait and the longer they get no other offers the less expensive they're likely to be.
As opposed to the swirling rumors we heard about their other signings of the offseason?
 

YTF

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I’d imagine you could make it work by giving the player a large portion of his contract as a signing bonus to protect him in case of injury or if things changed before they could get added to the 40?

But it seems overly complicated and if the Sox are holding off on signing a major leaguer who could help because they don’t want to lose Zack Kelly or Kaleb Ort, seems like they could ultimately get burned.
They can simply announce that the parties have come to an agreement and hold off on the official signing and announcement until they make a corresponding move. Remember the angst by some here over the delays in adding Justin Turner and Corey Kluber to the roster?
 

BringBackMo

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I suspect, like Mancini (who I didnt want), the reality is the longer we wait the more likely they sign somewhere else.

I'd be down with Andrus and Duvall. I dont love them but they would both add something in a place that is needed. See where that gets us.
I don’t think there’s much of a reason to suspect that this means they sign elsewhere. This is pretty much the blueprint the Sox followed last year prior to signing Story. Now it may well be that they’re interested in neither of these players, nor Iggy, but the fact that they haven’t signed here yet probably doesn’t tell us much about how interested the Sox are.
 

Heating up in the bullpen

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For those of us troubled by the idea (offered here by so many) of trading Ceddanne Rafaela, David Laurila's interview with Chaim Bloom should give us some comfort.

"The Red Sox have question marks in center field and at shortstop, and Ceddanne Rafaela could eventually be the answer at either position. Or both. One of Boston’s top prospects, the 22-year-old native of Curaçao profiles as the organization’s best defender on the grass, and he’s nearly as adept on the dirt. Moreover, he can swing the bat. Playing at High-A Greenville and Double-A Portland, Rafaela put up a 134 wRC+ while logging 32 doubles, 10 triples, and 21 home runs.

How soon he is deemed big-league-ready is a question that looms every bit as large as that of his primary position going forward. Rafaela is coming off of a season where he played 92 games in center, versus just 21 at short, but opportunity is knocking far louder at the latter. With Xander Bogaerts leaving for San Diego and Trevor Story going under the knife, Boston has a huge void to fill. Enrique Hernández could fit the bill, but he’s better suited for second base or center field.


What does the bad news the Red Sox received on Story earlier this week mean for Rafaela’s near-term future? I asked that question to Chaim Bloom.

“I think we would ill-served by sidetracking proper development for him in response to this,” Boston’s Chief Baseball Officer replied. “He’s a really exciting player, and we’re excited for him to impact us, but there is still development left.”

I'm also excited to see Ceddanne impact the Red Sox. The full article includes more thoughts on him from others in the Sox development team.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-ceddanne-rafaela-might-be-bostons-answer-in-center-or-short/
 

geoflin

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Both Andrus and Iglesias, like most players, want jobs as starters. The Red Sox need a starter at either or both MI positions. How many other teams have openings for a starter at MI? Maybe the White Sox at 2B, Oakland who likely won't spend the money, Pittsburgh who likely won't spend the money, maybe Arizona. There currently isn't a lot of need for MI's for starting positions, most of the availability would be for back-ups or utility infielders. This makes the Red Sox a more desirable location for either of these players. Plus, a player signed and projected to be a starter is worth more and likely to be paid more than a player signed as a back-up or utility player. I'm not worried that they haven't made a move yet. I'm confident that if the Red Sox have any interest in either player they've been in contact and both the team and the player and his agent know where each other stands. Should one of Andrus or Iglesias sign elsewhere then it becomes more urgent to try to sign the other and I have to believe this could be accomplished quickly.
 
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OCD SS

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For those of us troubled by the idea (offered here by so many) of trading Ceddanne Rafaela, David Laurila's interview with Chaim Bloom should give us some comfort.

"The Red Sox have question marks in center field and at shortstop, and Ceddanne Rafaela could eventually be the answer at either position. Or both. One of Boston’s top prospects, the 22-year-old native of Curaçao profiles as the organization’s best defender on the grass, and he’s nearly as adept on the dirt. Moreover, he can swing the bat. Playing at High-A Greenville and Double-A Portland, Rafaela put up a 134 wRC+ while logging 32 doubles, 10 triples, and 21 home runs.

How soon he is deemed big-league-ready is a question that looms every bit as large as that of his primary position going forward. Rafaela is coming off of a season where he played 92 games in center, versus just 21 at short, but opportunity is knocking far louder at the latter. With Xander Bogaerts leaving for San Diego and Trevor Story going under the knife, Boston has a huge void to fill. Enrique Hernández could fit the bill, but he’s better suited for second base or center field.


What does the bad news the Red Sox received on Story earlier this week mean for Rafaela’s near-term future? I asked that question to Chaim Bloom.

“I think we would ill-served by sidetracking proper development for him in response to this,” Boston’s Chief Baseball Officer replied. “He’s a really exciting player, and we’re excited for him to impact us, but there is still development left.”

I'm also excited to see Ceddanne impact the Red Sox. The full article includes more thoughts on him from others in the Sox development team.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-ceddanne-rafaela-might-be-bostons-answer-in-center-or-short/
FTA: "I don’t think there’s any doubt that he can face major-league pitching — but doing it consistently is something he still has to work on.”

CR's defense can get him to the big leagues, but people need to keep his offense in mind; I could face major league pitching, but having any kind of sucess is a whole different story. He put up great numbers last year, but only as far as AA, and the gap between pitchers there and MLB has grown to a chasm in recent years. Until he can learn to lay off of pitches he can make contact with, but can't do anything with, he's probably nothing more than a defensive specialist in MLB. Pitchers with major league stuff will carve him up; it's not the level for him to be learning pitch selection at.

Given the offensive profiles Bloom has looked at recently I think CR's contact skills are going to intrigue the FO, but he really shouldn't be counted on as any kind of savior to the current roster mess.
 

chawson

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Both Andrus and Iglesias, like most players, want jobs as starters. The Red Sox need a starter at either or both MI positions. How many other teams have openings for a starter at MI? Maybe the White Sox at 2B, Oakland who likely won't spend the money, Pittsburgh who likely won't spend the money, maybe Arizona. There currently isn't a lot of need for MI's for starting positions, most of the availability would be for back-ups or utility infielders. This makes the Red Sox a more desirable location for either of these players. Plus, a player signed and projected to be a starter is worth more and likely to be paid more than a player signed as a back-up or utility player. I'm not worried that they haven't made a move yet. I'm confident that if the Red Sox have any interest in either player they've been in contact and both the team and the player and his agent know where each other stands. Should one of Andrus or Iglesias sign elsewhere then it becomes more urgent to try to sign the other and I have to believe this could be accomplished quickly.
The Giants seem ready for a new shortstop and I don’t know if the Angels are sold on Rengifo. But I think you’re right that at this point it’s more of a buyer’s market than people realize.
 

geoflin

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The Giants seem ready for a new shortstop and I don’t know if the Angels are sold on Rengifo. But I think you’re right that at this point it’s more of a buyer’s market than people realize.
I'd be happy to give Rengifo a shot after last year's performance should the Angels want to trade him for a reasonable return.
 

chawson

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What's reasonable? Given the offensive performance last year, if he's a decent defender he may cost more than Kim who many here think that it would take at least Houck to get.
I don’t know about that. Kim grades out as an elite defender while the Angels shortstop is so-so. Rengifo also slashed only .238/.271/.358 vs. right-handed pitching.

I really think they’ll prioritize shortstop defense.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Whats Rusney Castillo up to these days?
I'm sure you're being facetious, but he spent last season in the independent Atlantic League playing for the Long Island Ducks and the Staten Island FerryHawks. 99 games, 411 PA, .297/.353/.373/.726, 6 HR. He was quite the utility player, playing 2B, 3B, LF, CF, and RF during the season.
 

dhappy42

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Why would it hurt Rafaela’s development to bring him up early to play CF every day? I can understand why it might hurt the team, assuming he hits poorly, but why does it hurt the player’s development?
 

RG33

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That dude’s baseball career got undermined by his big contract. So bizarre.
Quite the conundrum. Make $72M playing AAA baseball OR make $10M or so but be the starting LF for the Red Sox for 4 years. Tough choice for some I would imagine.
 

geoflin

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What's reasonable? Given the offensive performance last year, if he's a decent defender he may cost more than Kim who many here think that it would take at least Houck to get.
He's an average defender, has played 2B, SS, 3B, and the corner OF positions with more of his appearances at 2B than anywhere else. He's 2 years younger than Kim and both have 3 years of control left. BTV says Dalbec has more trade value than Rengifo. I'd do that in a minute but have no idea what the Angels might be looking for. Don't think I'd trade Houck for Rengifo and BTV says that isn't even close.
 

TimScribble

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Why would it hurt Rafaela’s development to bring him up early to play CF every day? I can understand why it might hurt the team, assuming he hits poorly, but why does it hurt the player’s development?
Because his bat is not ready? He’s struggled chasing pitches against advanced pitching. He needs to have time to work through those issues. Exposing his bat too soon and you could potentially see a repeat of Duran, Dalbec, etc.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Why would it hurt Rafaela’s development to bring him up early to play CF every day? I can understand why it might hurt the team, assuming he hits poorly, but why does it hurt the player’s development?
Being thrust into having to compete at a level that is beyond you, and then struggling in the attempt, can have a psychological effect that could be hard to overcome. And that's even if the physical shortcomings can be corrected. I don't think we have to look much further than Jeter Downs to see what kind of developmental effect rushing a player can have. He had cup of coffee in AA in 2019, and presumably was going to spend most if not all of the 2020 season in AA. With that season lost to COVID, it would have made all kinds of sense to send him to Portland to begin 2021 but instead he started the year in Worcester and struggled significantly. His progress not only stalled after that forced year off, it seemed to go backwards.

If they think Rafaela has a future with the club but has some flaws he needs to improve on before he's fully ready, it makes no sense to rush him up, start his service time clock, and over-expose his weaknesses unnecessarily. Let him keep working on steady improvement at skill appropriate levels and earn his way up. Especially if bringing him up early is in effect a white flag on the season. There are temporary fixes available for CF/MI that they don't need to screw up one of the brighter prospects in the system. It's the same reason they didn't just start last season with Casas on the big club playing first base. Any short term gains wouldn't be worth the risk of long-term losses.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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DeJong OPS+ by year: 121, 102, 99, 87, 85, 53. That’s quite a trend. He’s only 29, somehow. $9.2M this year, $2M buyout or $12.5M option next year. Good defensively.
 

nvalvo

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What's reasonable? Given the offensive performance last year, if he's a decent defender he may cost more than Kim who many here think that it would take at least Houck to get.
Kim just had a five WAR season. Yeah, it’ll cost Houck.
 

kazuneko

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Sign Josh Harrison or Jonathan Villar for one year with an option
Josh Harrison is aging but was still effective defensively (3 DRS) last season and not horrible with the bat. Might be a good below the radar signing as I doubt he’d cost too much.

Victor Robles is a JBJ type from the right side...
He also hits like JBJ.

"Leave Kike in his natural position in center, Andrus/Kim for SS, Iglesias for 2B, Ref backs up the outfield, and Arroyo the infield."
I concur with this.
I know Kiki is great in CF but he was more of an IF than an OF for most of his career and a damn good one at that. He's not only the Sox’s best defensive OF, he’s also their best defensive INF as well.

One free agent that hasn't gotten much attention but probably should be considered is Tyler Naquin. He's nothing exciting but could be a great match in a platoon with Refsnyder as he's always been a guy who hits RH pitching well (.749 OPS 2022/.794 OPS Career against RHP last season) but is so bad against LHP that he's struggled to (.611 OPS for his career) to establish himself as an everyday player. Defensively, Naquin has primarily been tabbed as a right fielder, but he’s only played 17 fewer games in center field. So, he has plenty of experience out there, but likely isn’t the type of glove you’d want to count on. FanGraphs indicates he has a -17 DRS in the center compared to just -1 in right field, though that number is skewed after a rough rookie campaign in 2016. After posting a positive DRS in 2017 and 2018, Naquin finished 2021 with a DRS of -6, the last time he spent significant time in center field. Last season he only made $4 million and was playing in a reserve role for the Mets by the end of the season. Probably will get less than that this season and the possibility of getting more ABs with the Sox could be attractive.
If the Sox don't go for higher profile options like Duvall or Andrus, signing Harrison or Naquin (or both) could be a cheaper path that would at least have some potential for keeping them competitive as they wait for Story to return to the everyday lineup.
 
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RS2004foreever

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What is Rusney Castillo up to. I saw him at Fenway where they drop the players cars off years ago (This was shortly after he signed IIRC). He was driving a Rolls Royce.
My guess is he is pretty good.