Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?
- Thread starter mabrowndog
- Start date
The Yankees will just pay A-Rod off and release him in 2015. He'll never play in pinstripes after a ban of nearly two years.mauidano said:
Is it even quantifiable how much this mess has damaged the Yankees' brand? This sad state of affairs is the culmination of the franchise's willingness to sign any player, no matter his background, while ignoring the dangers. This goes back to the Giambi signing and the clause inserted that would protect him from any PED transgressions.
You could say it went back to bringing in Canseco, however briefly, in 1998, and then trading for Clemens and dumping Wells in February of 1999. The Yankees were not alone, of course. But when you bring in users like Canseco and Clemens, they spread their little secrets to a select few teammates, further poisoning the pot. A-Rod apparently did the same thing with Melky. Can we blame him yet for Montero and Cervelli?
terrynever said:
My sense is that the damage is primarily being done to the ARod brand. Cashman is no fool; by telling ARod to shut the fuck up and generally acting publicly exasperated with him at every turn, he's managed to distance the team from the player and shield it from many of the more severe branding repercussions.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
It's interesting - is A-Rod a stand alone brand or is he tied to the Yankees? While I tend to think of A-Rod as something "independent" - I don't associate him with any other team but the Yankees. I certainly don't think of TX or Seattle. (Imagine, for contrast, what this would be like if Jeter had been accused.)
I doubt any Yankees fans cease being fans over A-Rod.
As far as popular perception/the casual fan goes, from 2001 to 2008, the Yanks were always in it, but as the years passed they seemed more and more mortal as a team (unlike the late 90s). 2009 put them back on the bragging rights map it seemed, at least as far as the decade went, but 2009 is also inextricably tied to ARod. '10 - '12 had them back on track as a legitimate threat, before the wheels came off this season.
If ARod is banned, 2009 is somewhat retroactively tarnished (especially so if it's proved he used PEDs at the time). I'm not sure he really causes fans to stop being fans, or discourages new fans. I think ARod well end up being the poster child for "it all started going wrong for the Yanks when. . ." sentiments. If the Yanks don't rebound next year, I think the ARod scandal, plus the loss of fair weather fans, could do quite a bit of damage to the franchise. If they field a more competitive team in 2014, I think it all blows over fairly quickly.
At this point I don't think he's going to play for the Yankees again. I don't think he's going to get a lifetime ban, but if he is suspended through most of next year, the Yanks will attempt to buy him out or just outright release him once the suspension is up. Yes, that's a ton of money to give him for not playing, but what level of production can be expected from Rodriguez in his 40s? And if he comes back and gets to 660, there's another $6M the Yanks have to pay him.
The Yankees obviously don't want him back. MLB obviously doesn't want him back. I don't think he's going to get banned, but I don't think Rodriguez is going to play in MLB again.
The Yankees obviously don't want him back. MLB obviously doesn't want him back. I don't think he's going to get banned, but I don't think Rodriguez is going to play in MLB again.
The best case scenario is that ARod is hit with a big suspension and wins the appeal. I want him sucking on the field and being paid by the Yankees for the remainder of the contract with the huge black cloud over his head.
Next best case would be suspended for the remainder of the year.
Fingers crossed. I am rooting for ARod here.
Next best case would be suspended for the remainder of the year.
Fingers crossed. I am rooting for ARod here.
I could definitely see some team giving A-Rod at least a mL make-good deal if the Yankees are responsible for his salary.
Americans love to forgive fallen celebrities, as long as they act contrite. A-Rod will have a year and a half to craft his comeback.
Americans love to forgive fallen celebrities, as long as they act contrite. A-Rod will have a year and a half to craft his comeback.
I also think he will not play again for the Yanks. Right now what matters is that they pay as much as possible of whats left in the contract. I think this has taken long time because MLB frankly has little or no idea how they will go forward with the remaining 100m left on his contract. Whatever happens will be a first.
goddamnit. Now they are talking this wont be decided until Monday. fuck this.
http://news.yahoo.com/monday-mlb-drug-deal-deadline-playoffs-loom-234749693.html
http://news.yahoo.com/monday-mlb-drug-deal-deadline-playoffs-loom-234749693.html
MakMan44 said:
Yep, if this was a player on the Red Sox, we'd all be arguing that they shouldn't have to honor the contract if something he did, by all accounts, or rules he broke on his own are keeping him from being able to play on the field. Does it suck that, as Red Sox fans, we have to sit here and watch the Yankees walk away from their terrible decision to re-up ARod after he opted out? Yeah. Is it unfair? No, not really.
PrometheusWakefield said:
On the one hand, yes, the union needs to fight for all of its members regardless of whether they like them or not. On the other, I'm okay with them not defending any members on particular issues, like PED use, when the evidence is strong enough for union officials to feel the player or players are certainly guilty. If they really are anti-PED use, then defending players only up to the point where they are presented with what they consider enough to evidence to surpass whatever level of "burden of proof" they have set or agreed to isn't really a problem for me.
Defending your members is one thing. Blindly fighting for them no matter what they do is another.
It would help if their farm system actually developed an impact player. Yeah, I know about the injuries. Just frustrates me to see what's going on right now.jon abbey said:
I understand that we're only talking suspension here, but dude would look stellar in an orange jumpsuit.
http://t.foxsports.msn.com/mlb/for-a-rod-adjusting-to-normal-life-101-1
http://t.foxsports.msn.com/mlb/for-a-rod-adjusting-to-normal-life-101-1
Sampo Gida said:
I've been thinking about this, and I believe that the answer is that it could complicate things greatly for MLB.
If there is a Federal investigation of Tony Bosch, I cannot imagine that he will testify at any hearing. And if he can't or won't testify, he can't authenticate documents nor can he provide direct evidence himself.
The flip side is almost as bad for MLB, in the sense that if he does testify, lawyers for A-Rod or any player who fights the suspensions will attempt to bring Bosch's character and credibility into play by asking questions about the federal investigation. If they are allowed to do this - and I suspect they will, as the rules of evidence in arbitration are pretty lax - Bosch will refuse to answer.
I suspect that MLB has pushed back their announcement of any actions at least in part because they are trying to get a better handle on the implications of the Federal investigation. And while I know that MLB has other Biogenesis employees who are cooperating (and probably lots of evidence we don't know about) I now see at least a sliver of a possibility that A-Rod could successfully contest any action by MLB.
Seabass177 said:
I think this is a highly plausible scenario. The de jure lifetime ban is out there as leverage to force an agreement to a lesser penalty, but a de facto lifetime ban can emerge anyway. Aside from the taint that would follow A-Rod around, I doubt that any team will want to take on the risk of A-Rod hitting them up for an extra 6 million halfway through the season.
Average Reds said:
Yes and no.
If Bosch has already given statements (whether recorded or under oath or not) those could be used against him in any subsequent criminal prosecution. (They could possibly be suppressed if they were gathered while MLB investigators were working directly for law enforcement - but that's *quite* a stretch.) There is no "off the record" communication for purposes of criminal prosecutions. If the Feds wanted, in a trial against Bosch, they could depose the individual investigators for MLB, subpoena the records MLB has created for the arb process, and introduce any statements Bosch made against himself.
Given that MLB has laid out all the evidence against the players and is negotiating a ban, it's incredibly likely statements were taken from Bosch as to what he did (or at least what he'd be willing to testify to.)
So, Bosch, also, is pretty much already toast. Whether or not he's given testimony at a hearing or not.
I had wondered (one of the other threads) why Bosch would testify without a deal to protect himself. I think that what happened was that there was no investigation pending that Bosch could deal with. Instead, he decided to cooperate with MLB so that MLB wouldn't sue him civilly (the deal was MLB would also indemnify Bosch against any player suits and perhaps provide him with some kind of local bodyguards). All in all, that may prove to be a pretty stupid idea on Bosch's part. ESPN/The Miami Herald is reporting that Bosch sold PEDs to teens. That kind of accusation should get a local investigation going. People perk up whenever minors are involved in something like this, as opposed to the guys down at the gym.
So, assuming the Feds or the local SAO open an investigation, they can charge Bosch with whatever he's already admitted to (selling to ARod) and try to proceed against him, including opening an investigation into whomever bought PEDs for their kids.
The statute of limitations for this sort of thing is usually 5 years. So it's not like there's a particular hurry to nail Bosch to the wall. Assuming that's what the authorities want to do.
There's also dual jurisdiction, so both the Feds and the State of FL can go after him for drug offenses. Anabolic Steroids are a Schedule III drug. He'd likely be looking at a trafficking charge, given the volume he moved (not all that much is required actually). Under FL State law, there's a 3 year minimum mandatory sentence that would apply.
I don't know who Bosch has representing him locally, but this is about as bad as it gets as far as setting your client up for a world of hurt.
***
I don't think this impacts ARods ability to win on appeal - again, unless something odd happens, the Commissioner's office is the agency through which any appeal would go, and there's no requirement that Bosch has to testify at the hearing. If a witness is called during a hearing and asked if he gave ARod illegal steroids, then that witness invokes his Fifth amendment right not to testify. . .well, you can see how that does not look good. You can then impeach the witness with any statements they made earlier, or call investigators who can testify to what the witness said before they realized they were being investigated, etc.
If ARod sits through next year, comes back in 2015, is released by NYY, and then signs with another team to DH... Isn't it NY that is on the hook for his salary and any bonuses he triggers?Sprowl said:
Heyman just tweeted that MLB is trying to get him to agree to a suspension which would cover the 2014 season. He's pushing back on anything over 100 games.
@KenDavidoff The Biogenesis guys, including A-Rod, have been given a deadline of 6 p.m. Eastern Time Sunday to settle their cases. Announcements Monday.
Listening to the A-Rod press conference now. The arrogance in which he speaks so matter-of-factly about returning is almost sociopathic. He seems completely oblivious. Just an odd guy.
Good. Fight the good fight A-Rod. Let's make NY eat 2/3 of your salary next year....and then the next 3 years.AlNipper49 said:
I honestly think they'll settle at 150. That would put him back on the field just after the all-star break..maybe August.
SemperFidelisSox said:
So it seems his story is going to be this is all a ploy by the Yankees to void his contract?
- "The one thing I've gotten from so many people, so many fans, some teammates, they're like, 'What is going on?'...It's a process...I will say this - there's more than one party that benefits from me not ever stepping back on the field. That's not my teammates, and it's not the Yankee fans."
- "I think we all agree that we want to get rid of PEDs, that's a must, I think all we players feel that way. But with all this stuff going on in the background, people trying to find creative ways to cancel your current contract, it concerns me, and it should concern present and future players."
Saturnian said:
Cant say I see anything wrong with what he said in these quotes. I guess I might be insane too ,
Any chance Arod could be implicated in recruiting HS kids for Biogenesis? I know he has a non profit that works with kids to keep them off the street.
Not sure the commissioners office is the appeal of last resort. If not, and a further appeal is heard in arbitration or the courts, then I am pretty sure Arods inability to question the key witness directly would not be a good thing for MLB getting the desired outcome. Without Bosch, they don't seem to have much, and even Bosch testimony , being coerced as it was, is questionable.
Rovin Romine said:
Not sure the commissioners office is the appeal of last resort. If not, and a further appeal is heard in arbitration or the courts, then I am pretty sure Arods inability to question the key witness directly would not be a good thing for MLB getting the desired outcome. Without Bosch, they don't seem to have much, and even Bosch testimony , being coerced as it was, is questionable.
Sampo Gida said:
Cant say I see anything wrong with what he said in these quotes. I guess I might be insane too ,
I agree. He's not wrong about anything in those two quotes... at least, not in principle. I also think he's lying through this teeth about his innocence and his desire to get PEDs out of the game, so this makes him a hypocrite. But I have a hard time seeing how he's wrong about how this should be a concern for the players.
Jeff Passan has a piece up on Yahoo with sources close to Arod saying More than playing ball he wants his money and he wants to screw the Yankees.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/money-man--a-rod-wants-cash-over-power--respect-and-playing-171955641.html
Love.
It.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/money-man--a-rod-wants-cash-over-power--respect-and-playing-171955641.html
I.
Love.
It.
I think watching the video helps fully capture the crazy. He starts out talking about playing 5 more years and feeling 100%, and that he's set to rejoin the team on Monday, "unless he gets struck by lightning". I think he's misspeaking in the quote about two entities benefit from him never playing again. After all, A-Rod is back to 100%, so clearly the Yankees and MLB benefit from him excelling on their fields. He was asked if he meant the Yankees, and he said that's "the pink elephant in the room(?). As he has said he's innocent, the implication of the second quote is, "We need to rid the game of PEDs, I learned my lesson 10 years ago. But we as players need to be really careful, or teams are going to start using any leverage we grant them to void our guaranteed contracts. That's what the Yankees are doing to me, and I am innocent."
edit:
Old Hoss Radbourn @OldHossRadbourn12h
The scribe looked in the empty bedroom. She was gone for good. The gin beckoned. "Time to turn this hate into an A-Rod column," he thought.
edit:
Old Hoss Radbourn @OldHossRadbourn12h
The scribe looked in the empty bedroom. She was gone for good. The gin beckoned. "Time to turn this hate into an A-Rod column," he thought.
I'm sticking with this one. the real negotiations are going on between MLB and the MFYs.bankshot1 said:
According to several reports, this is in fact the case. But why MLB would negotiate at all with the Yankees is beyond me. They should have no desire to help them, especially since doing so effectively goes against every other team. Selig's job is to work for/represent all owners, not the Steinbrenner's.bankshot1 said:
What am I missing? Why would MLB negotiate anything with the Yanks?
I imagine there are several reasons why Selig/MLB might listen to the MFY starting with common courtesy to listening to a team;s position as they would with any of its team owners, to the MFY, being one of the richest most powerful teams, and one that has paid a lot of other teams bills might be less accomodative in the future on certain issues if it feels its interests are ignored.
I think Selig is caught between the MFY, ARod, the MLBPA, the other teams, and the possibility of a billion $ lawsuit, if MLB bans ARod, and Arod goes after the league.
IMO the best interests of baseball might include the MFY taking back Arod before the end of the '14 season, whether they want him or not.
I think Selig is caught between the MFY, ARod, the MLBPA, the other teams, and the possibility of a billion $ lawsuit, if MLB bans ARod, and Arod goes after the league.
IMO the best interests of baseball might include the MFY taking back Arod before the end of the '14 season, whether they want him or not.
ARod is only 13 homeruns away from reaching Willy Mays's total which would net him a $6 million bonus from the Yankees and conceivably a lot of awkward press about a new homerun race. He's 67 away from Ruth's total and another $6 million bonus. In all, he has 5 potential $6 million homerun bonuses in his contract. I cannot think of a more nightmarish scenario for the Yankees than having the most tainted active player in baseball on their team breaking homerun records in front of the whole country and collecting cash bonuses from the team with each one. Had he gotten back on the field on the timeline that he wanted, he could have conceivably passed Mays this year and gotten this all started. Yikes for the Yanks.
Can you link to one? Everything I've seen has said the opposite, that the only people talking are MLB and A-Rod, often via the union.
Saw it on SC this morning. Apparently Arods camp contacted Stephen A. Smith directly with this info. Arods people aren't talking to mlb at all and are impatiently waiting for them to "bring it on."
Saw it on SC this morning. Apparently Arods camp contacted Stephen A. Smith directly with this info. Arods people aren't talking to mlb at all and are impatiently waiting for them to "bring it on."
That's my understanding too. I've only seen that the MLB is operating without regard to the contract.
I think by its very nature any discusions between the MLB and the Yankees would have to be kept secret and denied to ever taking place, other than keeping the parties informed, as the Yankees theoretically have no say on how this matter should be handled. But then there is the how real world works.
RT @NYDNsports: MLB done talking with A-Rod, who faces minimum 214-game ban. http://nydn.us/17qUffc
so thats this and next year at a the least
so thats this and next year at a the least
Sampo Gida said:
There's been no reporting that Arod is connected to recruiting HS kids. It hadn't occurred to me. But you never know, I guess.
No one really knows how the mechanics of any punishment will be handled. If there's an agreement, there's no appeal. If Bud suspends A-Rod under the PED clause, there would be a binding baseball arbitrator. If Bud suspends A-Rod under what we've been calling "the best interests of baseball" clause, then the commissioner's office is the appeal of last resort.
Whether or not A-Rod can get a federal court to hear his case (assuming the appeal to the commissioner's office goes against him - a fairly safe assumption) is another matter altogether. I'm pretty sure that the federal court, if it took the case at all, would be limited to looking at the process itself - I don't think they do what's called a de novo review (i.e., look at all the evidence as though it were a new trial.)
Appellate courts usually give great deference to trial courts - they don't, as a rule, get involved in second guessing a trial court's decision as to which witnesses were thought to be credible, and which witnesses were not found to be credible. Same holds true for any "higher" decision maker reviewing the lower decision makers.
The question of what kind of appeal he'd get (if any) and what issues would be in play is a fairly specialized one. I am just flat out guessing here, but it's an informed guess based on things I've seen happen in analogous circumstances.
Any of the legal crew care to chip in on this one? WBV?
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal6m
Can confirm reports from @Joelsherman1 and @NYDNsports: MLB and Yankees rejected meetings with A-Rod camp. Barring last-minute change…
...baseball plans to suspend A-Rod for at least this season and next. He has told friends he will appeal and “fight to the end.”
Can confirm reports from @Joelsherman1 and @NYDNsports: MLB and Yankees rejected meetings with A-Rod camp. Barring last-minute change…
...baseball plans to suspend A-Rod for at least this season and next. He has told friends he will appeal and “fight to the end.”
Rovin Romine said:
Didn't a similar issue come up with the NFL, where the Commissioner was handing down disciplinary decisions and also handling the appeals process? Did the court rule those had to be separated, which is why Tagliabue was ultimately brought in for the appeals?
Rovin Romine said:
Good stuff, thanks.
In the Ferguson Jenkin Case Kuhns decision under the best interests of baseball clause was overturned by an arbitrator, and Bud apparently has assured the union arbitration will be an option, so I guess at a minimum that's what Arod should expect.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/01/19798511-baseballs-death-penalty-lifetime-ban-an-option-in-a-rod-case-but-rarely-invoked?lite
He has some pretty high powered legal representation, so should be interesting what he does if he fights