Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?

[Sampo Gida]

 
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal6m
Can confirm reports from @Joelsherman1 and @NYDNsports: MLB and Yankees rejected meetings with A-Rod camp. Barring last-minute change…
 
...baseball plans to suspend A-Rod for at least this season and next. He has told friends he will appeal and “fight to the end.”
 

 
If true it seems MLB is backing down.  Before it was a lifetime ban which could be negotiated down to a 200+ suspension, now its a 200+ suspension that is or was open to negotiation.
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/mlb-talking-ready-ban-a-rod-latest-outburst-article-1.1416810?localLinksEnabled=false
 
 

Alex Rodriguez just talked himself out of a possible settlement with Major League Baseball and faces a  214-game suspension to be handed down on Monday, the Daily News has learned

 
There is certainly less risk for Arod to appeal and lose a 214 game suspension than a lifetime ban.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

MLB leaking the lifetime ban report may have just been a negotiating tactic to scare him into a deal.

 

[jon abbey]

I don't think much has changed, MLB wants him to agree to be banned through 2014, or they may try for a lifetime ban. As semper said, leaking the lifetime ban might have been a negotiating tactic but there have been no signs that MLB will settle for less than a through 2014 ban. While this does dovetail nicely with NY's interests, the fact remains that MLB has proof of him cheating in four separate seasons (2009-2012), lying to investigators, trying to buy evidence, and who knows what else. 

 

[Sampo Gida]

I don't think much has changed, MLB wants him to agree to be banned through 2014, or they may try for a lifetime ban. As semper said, leaking the lifetime ban might have been a negotiating tactic but there have been no signs that MLB will settle for less than a through 2014 ban. While this does dovetail nicely with NY's interests, the fact remains that MLB has proof of him cheating in four separate seasons (2009-2012), lying to investigators, trying to buy evidence, and who knows what else. 

 
Leaking is not really needed in negotiations since you can communicate directly with the other party.  It is a way to get media attention and sway public opinion, and saying you are going for a lifetime ban when you are not suggests you have a stronger case than you really do.    
 
Don't know how you define proof but nothing I have heard or read constitutes proof to my understanding of the word.  Maybe MLB has "proof" beyond the say so of a witness they coerced, and another who sold company records, allegedly unaltered,  for profit,  while managing to lose 4 boxes of the originals.  Dunno, if so, why they dealing?  Just bring down the hammer and be done with it.
 
The only substantial evidence out there that I have heard is all the negatives tests under the JDA that said he was clean from 2009-2012.

 

[jon abbey]

 
Don't know how you define proof but nothing I have heard or read constitutes proof to my understanding of the word. 

 
"MLB investigators have hundreds of emails, text messages and phone records linking Rodriguez to Bosch, sources have told The News, as well as documents and notes indicating transactions, dates and drug purchases. They may also have other evidence reflecting stronger financial ties between Rodriguez and Bosch."
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/feds-launch-probe-biogenesis-article-1.1414940

 

[EvilEmpire]

Jon, the only proof that matters is all the testing with negative results that ARod took.  Don't worry about Braun and all the other guys who are about to agree to suspensions because of their activities with Bosch. 
 
Amirite, Yuri?

 

[jon abbey]

Here's the latest, looks he will be banned through 2014 on Monday and won't be allowed to play while he appeals:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9535752/alex-rodriguez-likely-suspended-2014-season-monday-according-sources
 
I changed the topic title, since this seems to be coming to a resolution now.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

"This is typical Alex," one Yankees official told the New York Daily News.

"Instead of taking responsibility for his actions, he blames everybody else. It wasn't the Yankees who introduced him to Anthony Bosch. It wasn't the Yankees who introduced him to Dr. Galea, or anybody else."

 

[SaveBooFerriss]

I think Arod will see the suspension significantly reduced on appeal.  I think the fact that Braun got 65 days and the other players only got 50 games is going to be the deciding factor in reducing the suspension.  
 
I normally would not predict what will happen in arbitration because arbitrators can be unpredictable, but I think that the disparate treatment between Arod and the other is significant.  

 

[Sampo Gida]

 
"MLB investigators have hundreds of emails, text messages and phone records linking Rodriguez to Bosch, sources have told The News, as well as documents and notes indicating transactions, dates and drug purchases. They may also have other evidence reflecting stronger financial ties between Rodriguez and Bosch."
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/feds-launch-probe-biogenesis-article-1.1414940

 
Having contact with Bosch is not an offense unless they have proof the contact was related to the purchase or use of steroids.  The documents and notes we know about did not refer to Arod by name , we only have Bosch's word that the code name is for Arod, and Bosch was coerced into cooperating.
 
Maybe Arod was dumb enough to pay with a credit card or check, but then again, you have to prove what he paid for was for a banned substance, and not something that was permitted.
 
Not claiming Arod is innocent, just that the circumstantial case against Arod may not be as strong as MLB's sources would like us to believe, which explains why they are dealing.

 

[502 to Right]

Here's the latest, looks he will be banned through 2014 on Monday and won't be allowed to play while he appeals:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9535752/alex-rodriguez-likely-suspended-2014-season-monday-according-sources
 
I changed the topic title, since this seems to be coming to a resolution now.

 
If Rodriguez doesn't accept the punishment we are just getting started.
 
Get your popcorn ready. 

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I definitely do not like the part of the report that suggests the commissioner will not allow ARod to play while appealing, invoking the "best interests of the game" clause.  The league is circumventing the CBA here, and it's not good for the game in general, even if it's good in this one individual case.  ARod is a dipshit and I'd like to see his career end sooner rather than later, but the league is pissing on the line right now.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

There's mention on MLBtr that Arod's team approached the Yankees about a buyout of his remaining years and they balked.

 

[LondonSox]

This is really interesting.
Everyone seems to hate arod but you can't let that influence things.
The union may hate him too, but if MLB starts screwing over the CBA etc it's insane. Players can play while appealing, it's always that way as far as I understand it. That can't be allowed because everyone dislikes the guy.
Lifetime bans using vague legal language, again can't be allowed for the future precedent set.
Voiding a contract too needs more than he had contact with a dodgy guy.

I really don't see how the union can avoid supporting him, and they bloody well should anyway he's paid them more than anyone after all.

 

[phrenile]

If they suspend him for X number of games, would it even be in A-Rod's interest to try to play while appealing? He's on the DL. The sooner he starts serving, the sooner he returns from a reduced (or unreduced) suspension.

 

[BoSox Rule]

I'm his biggest fan right now. I hope he plays every single game and reaches a few of those HR milestones.

 

[bosockboy]

These press conferences are surreal. He thinks he's playing Monday.

 

[jon abbey]

If they suspend him for X number of games, would it even be in A-Rod's interest to try to play while appealing? He's on the DL. The sooner he starts serving, the sooner he returns from a reduced (or unreduced) suspension.

 
He seems pretty much ready to play if allowed, he hit a long HR in AA last night and walked in all four ABs there today. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

He should fight.  
 
MLB and the Yankees are fucking hypocrites here (but no worse than your average organization when deciding to cut ties with an individual who was once productive enough for them to overlook certain character flaws) and, frankly, he has little downside here.
 
The league and the team, on the other hand, have huge downside, especially if ARod has dirt on other PED users.   I am not a crisis management person but even I know that the league should compel the Yankees to buy him out and make him go away (subject to him agreeing to stay silent on the PED issue going forward). That would be in the best interest of baseball right now.  A protracted battle, while very entertaining to us, would most certainly be bad for the league.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Regardless of what appens with the Yankees, at this point I think Selig should want other PED users exposed. Better to rip the scab off. Let it bleed a bit. Make as big a gesture as possible toward getting rid of PEDs. Any half-assed attempt to keep any of this quiet or protect other users will come back to bite MLB because it will almost certainly get exposed. They can't keep ARod from doing or saying something stupid down the road, regardless of any kind of deal they could make.

 

[jon abbey]

I would love to see A-Rod start naming other players publicly, could you imagine what kind of pariah he'd be then? And conversely, how many former teammates probably have shit on him that hasn't come out yet? Bring it all on, suspend half of baseball.

 

[Rovin Romine]

He should fight.  
 
MLB and the Yankees are fucking hypocrites here (but no worse than your average organization when deciding to cut ties with an individual who was once productive enough for them to overlook certain character flaws) and, frankly, he has little downside here.
 
The league and the team, on the other hand, have huge downside, especially if ARod has dirt on other PED users.   I am not a crisis management person but even I know that the league should compel the Yankees to buy him out and make him go away (subject to him agreeing to stay silent on the PED issue going forward). That would be in the best interest of baseball right now.  A protracted battle, while very entertaining to us, would most certainly be bad for the league.

 
Please.  ARod was stiffing any number of younger non-PED using players.  He can play the hypocrite card if he likes, valid or not, but he does not deserve to continue in uniform.
 
There's often this confusion - that two wrongs somehow make a right, or that panic or passion should somehow be forgiven, so long as another party knew and/or could have gained.  But the bottom line is A'rod cheated, despite very clear rules to the contrary.
 
if that means lowering the boom on the yanks, that's all well and good.
 
But it's neither a defense nor a justification for what A-rod, as an individual, did. If the league is embarrassed, that's on the league. 

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

This is really interesting.
Everyone seems to hate arod but you can't let that influence things.
The union may hate him too, but if MLB starts screwing over the CBA etc it's insane. Players can play while appealing, it's always that way as far as I understand it. That can't be allowed because everyone dislikes the guy.
Lifetime bans using vague legal language, again can't be allowed for the future precedent set.
Voiding a contract too needs more than he had contact with a dodgy guy.
I really don't see how the union can avoid supporting him, and they bloody well should anyway he's paid them more than anyone after all.

How has Arod paid the union more than everyone else? MLBPA dues are a flat rate .. Not based on salary. There's lots of guys with more service time than him one would think.

 

[bankshot1]

ARod is a pariah no matter how this ends, but IMO the last thing MLB or any team he was associated with would wish for is for him to go Canseco on them, and start telling tales out of the locker-room, or what teams really knew, and kept a blind eye to or a zipped lip to, over the past two decades.
 
In any case, if last night was Arod's last in a uni until '15, (or ever) his 4 BBs in 4 AB seemed fitting.   
 
Baseball seemed to be telling Arod: Take a walk!

 

[Saints Rest]

How has Arod paid the union more than everyone else? MLBPA dues are a flat rate .. Not based on salary. There's lots of guys with more service time than him one would think.


Really? Every other union I've ever been part of or knew about paid dues as both flat rate and percentage of income (on contract).

 

[JimD]

Not a fan of Selig's impersonation of Dean Wormer here, making up the penalties as he goes along.  I could see this blowing up in their faces in arbitration or especially if Team A-Rod ever finds a way to get this into court.

 

[NDame616]

Not a fan of Selig's impersonation of Dean Wormer here, making up the penalties as he goes along.  I could see this blowing up in their faces in arbitration or especially if Team A-Rod ever finds a way to get this into court.

 
What do you mean if? If this shakes out the way it looks (Selig suspends him through '14, ARod fights Selig says he can't play during the suspension, ARod fights that) I see a 0% chance this isn't in court and very soon (an injunction forcing MLB to allow him to play) until the appeal is heard. ARod is represented by one of, if not the, strongest unions in the world, and has, I'm guessing, one of the best legal teams in the world to back him.
 
I just don't see what evidence they have that could justify 100+ more games than a first offense. He tried to cover this up? Melky Cabrera's handlers created a fake website and showed it to MLB to prove his innocence! Where was his lifetime ban for impeding the investigation and lieing to MLB? Texts and emails to Biogenesis? OK, one could argue it's not enough proof he TOOK PEDs, just bought them (I'm not one of those people who thinks that)
 
I also don't get how people compare this to Rocker's suspension. The CBA has a section specifically collectively negotiated to address PED use. It, however, doesn't have a "here is what happens when you give racist and homophobic comments to SI" section.
 
btw I'm a Sox fan and hate ARod. But the way Selig is circumventing the CBA only to fix his legacy and using ARod as a scapegoat is so transparent and pretty sad. 12 people suspended 50 games but someone ARod gets 200+? Nope.

 

[jon abbey]

 
I just don't see what evidence they have that could justify 100+ more games than a first offense.

 
They have what they consider proof that he cheated in four separate years (2009-2012), plus evidence of attempts to hinder the investigation of both himself and everyone else involved.

 

[NDame616]

 
They have what they consider proof that he cheated in four separate years (2009-2012), plus evidence of attempts to hinder the investigation of both himself and everyone else involved.

 
I know, but I'm wondering what they have that show's he attempted to hinder the investigations. I'm surprised that these details haven't been leaked yet, since most the other stuff has been. 
 
A story for a different day is what does it say about the testing that such a high profile player who has admitted to PED usage in the past can get away with four years of PED use without a failed test (I am in the camp of "attempting to test is a lost cause since the scientists MAKING the drugs are years ahead of the guys attempting to TEST for the drugs")

 

[jon abbey]

Also it's possible (and I am mostly guessing here) that when MLB talked to A-Rod in 2011 about his involvement with Toronto doctor Anthony Galea, they asked him questions which the Biogenesis investigation has now proven he lied in response. 
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/dr-galea-investigation-a-rod-big-fish-article-1.1269523

 

[bankshot1]

The discovery process of what MLB knew about Arod and when, (he did admit 4 years ago he used in the past) not only about ARod but about every other MLB player will be lengthy, and will ultimately lead to why was did MLB wait until '13 to go after Arod for his 1st PED offense? And if this is a first offense in MLB's eye why isn't the CBA the process by which ARod should be judged? Like others, the arbitrariness of Selig and MLB's actions coupled with the righteousness of a complicit MLB annoys the hell out of me.

 

[terrynever]

 
He seems pretty much ready to play if allowed, he hit a long HR in AA last night and walked in all four ABs there today. 

It was weird that he got walked all four times up. A good way to snub this guy is to walk him every time up and don't let him prance around the bases after a home run like he did Friday night.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

 
They have what they consider proof that he cheated in four separate years (2009-2012), plus evidence of attempts to hinder the investigation of both himself and everyone else involved.

The key words here being "what they consider."  I mean, this keeps being reported, but at some point they have to actually reveal what they have, and when this happens, it is quite possible that other, reasonable minds won't view the evidence as being as substantial as MLB claims it to be. 

 

[Yaz4Ever]

It was weird that he got walked all four times up. A good way to snub this guy is to walk him every time up and don't let him prance around the bases after a home run like he did Friday night.

Only thing better would be to hit him every time he's up.

 

[terrynever]

Only thing better would be to hit him every time he's up.

Then you get your pitchers in trouble. A walk is suitable disdain.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Then you get your pitchers in trouble. A walk is suitable disdain.

I'm sure the directions from the Steinbrenners would be to hit him in the hip.  Those who succeed will be richly rewarded.  : )

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
Please.  ARod was stiffing any number of younger non-PED using players.  He can play the hypocrite card if he likes, valid or not, but he does not deserve to continue in uniform.
 
There's often this confusion - that two wrongs somehow make a right, or that panic or passion should somehow be forgiven, so long as another party knew and/or could have gained.  But the bottom line is A'rod cheated, despite very clear rules to the contrary.
 
if that means lowering the boom on the yanks, that's all well and good.
 
But it's neither a defense nor a justification for what A-rod, as an individual, did. If the league is embarrassed, that's on the league. 

 
To be clear, I wasn't condoning ARod's behavior or suggesting he deserves to play.  And I have no confusion that two wrongs make a right.  
 
However, let's be clear here.  MLB tolerated PEDs and, in some cases, glorified players who used PEDs until it became public knowledge that these guys were juicing.  It benefitted not only the players but the teams and their sponsors
 
The pay structure of the league (and other professional sports) gives huge incentives for players to use.  You suggest that their rules are clear but I would argue that they aren't nearly harsh enough.  If MLB and other sports were serious about PED use, they would have much stiffer penalties.   Of course its problematic because what isn't defined as a PED today may well be tomorrow but there are ways to deal with that.
 
Finally, you can suggest that ARod's use of PEDs stiffed "any number of non-PED using players" but I would submit that someone like Yasmani Grandal's PED use had more of an impact on other players than ARod.  I am also fairly confident that many of these supposed innocents are doing whatever they can, including using PEDs to further their career.  And they will continue to do so - they will just get better at masking their usage.  
 
If the league were really serious here, they would admit that they have tolerated it and change the rules so that players and teams have a much larger downside.  Until then, the league is simply papering over this issue.

 

[502 to Right]

If Arod cheated in 2009 the Yankees should have their world series win stripped.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If Arod cheated in 2009 the Yankees should have their world series win stripped.

 
Right after the Sox give back 2007 and probably 2004.  I know this is a joke, but it's a shitty one.

 

[canderson]

Missed who said it, but guy on ESPN radio just said Arod gets to play during his appeal and will be in NY's lineup tomorrow.

 

[jon abbey]

Missed who said it, but guy on ESPN radio just said Arod gets to play during his appeal and will be in NY's lineup tomorrow.

 
Yeah, that's the word today on Twitter, he'll be suspended under the CBA, so will be able to play during his appeal. He may set records for being booed, on the road and at home.

 

[Sampo Gida]

 
They have what they consider proof that he cheated in four separate years (2009-2012), plus evidence of attempts to hinder the investigation of both himself and everyone else involved.

Since when does MLB seek to ascertain how many times you used. If you get caught in a PED test odds are you used many times before being caught. They have a JDA which goes to great length to define penalties for each time you get caught, not penalty per each presumed injection of a prohibited substance. Bring it up at the next CBA negotiations Bud.

I will wait and see on the evidence they have that he hindered their investigation. These sources may be overplaying what MLB has in terms of evidence as they are mistaken on the penalties and process MLB will impose (although the Feds involvement may have changed things for MLB)

Melky got no penalty for his fake website which was meant to hinder or at least mislead investigators. Precedence counts in arbitration, and it does look like there will be arbitration and Arod may be able to play through it on appeal, although we probably need to wait till tommorrow to be sure.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

With Girardi supposedly saying he's got ARod penciled into the lineup for tomorrow, is he thumbing his nose at the front office or has he been directed by the front office to go through the motions and wait for an official word to come down in the meantime?  I'm assuming the latter, but I don't know how much of a player's manager Girardi is nor what his personal relationship with ARod is.

 

[EvilEmpire]

With Girardi supposedly saying he's got ARod penciled into the lineup for tomorrow, is he thumbing his nose at the front office or has he been directed by the front office to go through the motions and wait for an official word to come down in the meantime?  I'm assuming the latter, but I don't know how much of a player's manager Girardi is nor what his personal relationship with ARod is.

I think the team is just playing the situation straight up and is trying to treat ARod like any other player going through the process. They certainly don't want to add weight to ARod's accusations.

Also, their offense is shitty.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

I think the team is just playing the situation straight up and is trying to treat ARod like any other player going through the process. They certainly don't want to add weight to ARod's accusations.

Also, their offense is shitty.

That's my assumption as well, but this whole soap opera has so many potential story lines that I don't know if I can guess what's coming up next

 

[walkoffblast]

If Arod is suspended for all of 2014 and then later somehow gets a ruling that he was wrongly suspended how does that effect the Yankees luxury tax implications for that season? Furthermore who has to pay him for the time missed? It seems like at that point the Yankees would sue MLB or something like that because why should they have to pay someone they weren't allowed to use, especially at luxury tax rates?

 

[jon abbey]

If Arod is suspended for all of 2014 and then later somehow gets a ruling that he was wrongly suspended 

 
I don't think this will be possible, since it seems like he'll be playing until the suspension is heard.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I thought if he got suspended under the CBA best interest of baseball clause he couldn't play? Isn't it just under the PED side of the agreement that he can appeal and play through it.

 

[jon abbey]

I thought if he got suspended under the CBA best interest of baseball clause he couldn't play? Isn't it just under the PED side of the agreement that he can appeal and play through it.

 
Yes, that's what's happening:
 
 

1.  
2. 
   
   
   Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman18m
   #Yankees have been told A-Rod is being suspended tmrw, but also that if he appeals Selig not using his CBA powers to keep form field (cont)
    
    
   Thus, as long as A-Rod does appeal and doesn't incur a new injury he is playing tomorrow nite for #Yankees
    
   
   
   

 

[canderson]

Heyman says their will be 12 suspended players, three "unknown" at this time.