Revis the Jet: Plans to be part of the WH visit

[Leather]

But that situation is completely inapposite.    The fact that you have to make such an absurd scenario to prove your point kind of undermines it at the same time.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I mean, who knows with Goodell, but if the added cost of tampering for Revis's services is a 6th, then the Jets do it 100 times out of 100. Other teams see this and will be more brazen about it. If it gets worse, teams will have a hard time extending their best players. Let's say it's the middle of the last season before Gronk goes to free agency. Let's say that the Jets are whispering stuff like, "hey Gronk, we'll give you a 10 year 200 million contract with 100 guaranteed. But only if you stay healthy or fake an injury so you don't play the rest of the season. Gronk then goes "cool, NYC has hot chicks", decides to get Ellsbury-itis, sits out the rest of the year, and within 2 seconds of free agency signs that massive contract with the Jets.

That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.

 
Your hypthesis is flawed. New York doesn't have hot chicks.

 

[steveluck7]

That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.

I kind of agree with you here. If the penatlies are going to be so light, why even have the rule? I don't even care if the Patriots get a pick as a result. What about some cap penalties applied to the NYJ for the next few years? That'd deter teams, I think. Tamper with a player, sign him with a cap hit of 10 million per year?  OK, for the next 3 years you have a $10 million cap penalty.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yeah, Id put a 6th rounder as one of the better possible outcomes for the Pats.  Its tampering, but ROG isn't bringing the hammer down here, and I don't really think he should.

True, but a MEMO HAS BEEN SENT.

 

[teddykgb]

I think the fact that Revis was contracted to the Patriots for another year is really relevant and makes this situation hard to predict.  The more run of the mill tampering that occurs is essentially a technical violation -- the players are going to be Free Agents and they are exploring their options before the league permits them to by rule.  Yes, the teams who those players are leaving are materially harmed in some way in that they theoretically should have an opportunity to try to sign the player without other teams driving the price up, but the players are in these cases days and weeks away from true freedom anyway and always have the choice to pursue that freedom.
 
Revis' contract was somewhat exceptional in that it was a 2 year deal that was a 1 year deal but had that option where the Patriots could try to absorb the salary.  I don't think it's comparable to the run of the mill about to be a FA tampering because this option year meant that the Jets were more than just jumping the gun, there was a legitimate question as to whether the player was going to actually be available, which really has the potential to alter the series of events more substantially than most of the historical precedents.
 
I really don't know what appropriate compensation is.  It's sort of uncharted territory IMO.

 

[bankshot1]

Using the example that the NFL uses in its anti-tampering rule, it is inarguable Woody J did not tamper with Revis.
 
Whether the NFL decides to ignore its own rule, and let the Jets slide, would beg the question, why bother having the rule.

 

[PBDWake]

It's kind of an amusing scenario for me to try and predict, because, I mean, Roger sucks at just about everything pertaining to his job. But he also likes to be loud and in charge, and swing his dick around. By some accounts, Woody is one of the malcontents, as he think Roger kisses ass with the Maras and Krafts and he plays second fiddle. Plus, it was pretty fucking blatant. But he'll screw it up somehow. He'll do something assess an unprecedented penalty, but it'll be a draft pick forfeiture in the 3rd instead of awarding it to the Pats, or something.

 

[Stitch01]

True, but a MEMO HAS BEEN SENT.

Not in time for this statement, but yeah, that's a whole separate league stupidity issue.
 
If the Jets were discussing numbers with Revis last season, then yes, they should be heavily penalized but for Woody making a statement that they wanted Revis on their team?  Yeah, low draft pick/fine slap on the wrist seems fine to me.

 

[steveluck7]

Not in time for this statement, but yeah, that's a whole separate league stupidity issue.
 
If the Jets were discussing numbers with Revis last season, then yes, they should be heavily penalized but for Woody making a statement that they wanted Revis on their team?  Yeah, low draft pick/fine slap on the wrist seems fine to me.

Wouldn't talking with him anytime before 4pm on Tuesday have also been tampering? He wasn't an impending FA so he was not subject ot the legal tampering period and, according to Reiss, the team did not grant him permission to shop himself, like they did with Browner

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I mean, who knows with Goodell, but if the added cost of tampering for Revis's services is a 6th, then the Jets do it 100 times out of 100. Other teams see this and will be more brazen about it. If it gets worse, teams will have a hard time extending their best players. Let's say it's the middle of the last season before Gronk goes to free agency. Let's say that the Jets are whispering stuff like, "hey Gronk, we'll give you a 10 year 200 million contract with 100 guaranteed. But only if you stay healthy or fake an injury so you don't play the rest of the season. Gronk then goes "cool, NYC has hot chicks", decides to get Ellsbury-itis, sits out the rest of the year, and within 2 seconds of free agency signs that massive contract with the Jets.

That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.

 
I personally think that the "tampering" effects from Woody's comments are significantly overblown.  I am convinced (and maybe Otto can prove me wrong) that the communication between Agents, owners, players, GM, scouts, etc... is rampant and unchecked.  Specifically I am saying that I am convinced that Woody could have (and very well may have) picked up his phone and called Revis' agent at any point during Revis' time with the Patriots and talked in detail about his desire to bring him back to NY and that those types of calls and chats happen consistently from all teams at all times.  I believe that we are privy to maybe 5% of the total negotiation and communication that happens about player deals through media leaks.  
 
Maybe I am way off in those assumptions, but I have a hard time believing that teams actual follow the rules like some others seem to believe.
 
I think the tampering "rules" exist solely for PR purposes so that the league can beat their chest and make it appear that everything is on the straight and narrow between agents and teams.  Using those assumptions Woody's comments really don't matter and the team might get a slap on the wrist because of them to at least keep up the farce.

 

[Stitch01]

Wouldn't talking with him anytime before 4pm on Tuesday have also been tampering? He wasn't an impending FA so he was not subject ot the legal tampering period and, according to Reiss, the team did not grant him permission to shop himself, like they did with Browner
 

 
Yes.  Do we have any evidence the Jets did that or any evidence that they acted in a way outside of NFL custom? 

 

[theapportioner]

Yes.  Do we have any evidence the Jets did that or any evidence that they acted in a way outside of NFL custom? 

Aside from the Woody comments a while back, not that I'm aware. But even if there is, Kensil wouldn't leak it anyway.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I still think Miami is the team they'd pick if they are going to nail someone. There were numbers being floated around before the tampering period, as I recall.

 

[steveluck7]

Yes.  Do we have any evidence the Jets did that or any evidence that they acted in a way outside of NFL custom? 

Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.

 

[Stitch01]

Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.

We could.  I think that is another "Im shocked there is gambling going on here" bullshit NFL investigation where ROG is going to target one team to pay up for rules everyone was violating for years, but we shall see.  We don't know there is anything Jets/Revis related there.  Im specifically referring to appropriate punishment for the Woody comments that were the cause of the Pats formal complaint.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

 
I personally think that the "tampering" effects from Woody's comments are significantly overblown.  I am convinced (and maybe Otto can prove me wrong) that the communication between Agents, owners, players, GM, scouts, etc... is rampant and unchecked.  Specifically I am saying that I am convinced that Woody could have (and very well may have) picked up his phone and called Revis' agent at any point during Revis' time with the Patriots and talked in detail about his desire to bring him back to NY and that those types of calls and chats happen consistently from all teams at all times.  I believe that we are privy to maybe 5% of the total negotiation and communication that happens about player deals through media leaks.  
 
Maybe I am way off in those assumptions, but I have a hard time believing that teams actual follow the rules like some others seem to believe.
 
I think the tampering "rules" exist solely for PR purposes so that the league can beat their chest and make it appear that everything is on the straight and narrow between agents and teams.  Using those assumptions Woody's comments really don't matter and the team might get a slap on the wrist because of them to at least keep up the farce.

Well yeah, nobody's arguing with this. But the rules are there, this is as black and white a violation as there could possibly be, so whether it's stupid or bullshit or whatever isn't relevant. And the fact that tampering has been especially in the spotlight over the last week - for far murky infractions - there should be MORE pressure on the league office to penalize clown shoes woody.

My best guess: Take away a jets late rounder and pats and jets swap slots in the third round.

 

[loshjott]

Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.

 
The NFL could always hire the "experienced investigators and forensic accountants" of Renaissance Associates to dig into the matter.  They should have their number handy after using them to look into deflated footballs.

 

[Van Everyman]

The thing I think is maybe being a bit underplayed in this tampering story is the fact that Revis went to the Jets last year and Idzik told him thanks but no thanks. So Woody's comments weren't just about wanting Revis back – it was signaling an about face from the year before. It's more than a casual comment.

If I'm Belichick and I am trying to get Revis to buy into his system, that's infuriating.

 

[Pxer]

 
I personally think that the "tampering" effects from Woody's comments are significantly overblown.  I am convinced (and maybe Otto can prove me wrong) that the communication between Agents, owners, players, GM, scouts, etc... is rampant and unchecked.  Specifically I am saying that I am convinced that Woody could have (and very well may have) picked up his phone and called Revis' agent at any point during Revis' time with the Patriots and talked in detail about his desire to bring him back to NY and that those types of calls and chats happen consistently from all teams at all times.  I believe that we are privy to maybe 5% of the total negotiation and communication that happens about player deals through media leaks.  

I talked with a current player about this very thing this offseason. He was an impending free agent, but he said that agents and team reps do talk, but that much of the time the agent is initiating conversation on behalf of players (now, this player wasn't a primo FA or anything). He said they put out feelers and gauge interest whenever they're talking about other players represented by the same agent or if they're at a workout or at the combine, etc.
 
I don't think any of that is really anything new to us, but this player seemed to insinuate that conversations happen like this all the time, particularly in the offseason, even so far as deal frameworks being laid.
 
Given the recent request of the NFL for teams to maintain phone records, I'm sure some precautions are taken otherwise we'd hear more leaks and investigations into funny business if it were entirely blatant.

 

[Reverend]

I talked with a current player about this very thing this offseason. He was an impending free agent, but he said that agents and team reps do talk, but that much of the time the agent is initiating conversation on behalf of players (now, this player wasn't a primo FA or anything). He said they put out feelers and gauge interest whenever they're talking about other players represented by the same agent or if they're at a workout or at the combine, etc.

I don't think any of that is really anything new to us, but this player seemed to insinuate that conversations happen like this all the time, particularly in the offseason, even so far as deal frameworks being laid.

Given the recent request of the NFL for teams to maintain phone records, I'm sure some precautions are taken otherwise we'd hear more leaks and investigations into funny business if it were entirely blatant.

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[j44thor]

Well yeah, nobody's arguing with this. But the rules are there, this is as black and white a violation as there could possibly be, so whether it's stupid or bullshit or whatever isn't relevant. And the fact that tampering has been especially in the spotlight over the last week - for far murky infractions - there should be MORE pressure on the league office to penalize clown shoes woody.

My best guess: Take away a jets late rounder and pats and jets swap slots in the third round.

I'll take the under, way under. I'll be shocked if the penalty is greater than a 6th and a fine.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

You're probably right, but that's actually a lesser penalty than the precedent-setting one involving the 49ers tampering with the Bears LB Lance Briggs. In that case, I believe the penalty was forfeiture of a 5th rounder and a swap of 3rd round draft slots.

 

[Marbleheader]

Didn't the Jets get a first from the Patriots for tampering with Belichick? I guess it was more of a trade.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

You're probably right, but that's actually a lesser penalty than the precedent-setting one involving the 49ers tampering with the Bears LB Lance Briggs. In that case, I believe the penalty was forfeiture of a 5th rounder and a swap of 3rd round draft slots.

 
Keep in mind the Bears re-signed Briggs there.  That's why, if the NFL is serious about the Jets tampering (which I have said I do not expect they will be) any penalty would need to be much more significant.

 

[dcmissle]

Didn't the Jets get a first from the Patriots for tampering with Belichick? I guess it was more of a trade.

It wasa trade. Jets had non frivolous claim to contractual right to BBs services.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Keep in mind the Bears re-signed Briggs there.  That's why, if the NFL is serious about the Jets tampering (which I have said I do not expect they will be) any penalty would need to be much more significant.

The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.

 
Agreed, but there has to be some deterrent to organizations speaking about another team's players. That's why I'm thinking a 6th ... and Woody buys drinks at the next owners meeting

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.

 
The Lions lost a pick in 2011 and had to swap a 5th rounder with KC for a public comment from the defensive coordinator.  Fox Sports story below.
 
(Kansas City) keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys,” Cunningham told the Detroit Free Press in February.
 
The Chiefs brought tampering charges against the Lions for comments made by defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham
As a result of the Goodell's ruling:
• Detroit will forfeit its seventh-round pick (acquired from Denver) in the 2011 draft.
• Kansas City and Detroit will switch fifth-round picks in 2011 too. As a result, Kansas City now will have the ninth selection of the round and Detroit the 23rd selection
 
The Lions didn’t end up signing any of the Kansas City’s free agents. Woody's comment was directed at a specific player that they ended up signing.  I do not see just a fine here.

 

[tims4wins]

Thanks for that. That is fantastic ammo for Kraft.

 

[EvilEmpire]

The Lions lost a pick in 2011 and had to swap a 5th rounder with KC for a public comment from the defensive coordinator.  Fox Sports story below.
 
(Kansas City) keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys,” Cunningham told the Detroit Free Press in February.
 
The Chiefs brought tampering charges against the Lions for comments made by defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham
As a result of the Goodell's ruling:
• Detroit will forfeit its seventh-round pick (acquired from Denver) in the 2011 draft.
• Kansas City and Detroit will switch fifth-round picks in 2011 too. As a result, Kansas City now will have the ninth selection of the round and Detroit the 23rd selection
 
The Lions didn’t end up signing any of the Kansas City’s free agents. Woody's comment was directed at a specific player that they ended up signing.  I do not see just a fine here.

You might be right, but that Detroit situation was also more than those comments. The Lions reached out directly to Jarrad Page.  Also, would it surprise anyone if owners were judged on a different standard than coaches, staff or players? 


http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f0976b/article/lions-seventhround-pick-returned-on-tamperingcase-appeal
 

The Detroit Lions' seventh-round selection in this year's NFL draft has been reinstated after a hearing on their appeal of sanctions issued for violating the league's tampering policy, the NFL confirmed Thursday.

The Lions instead will lose one pick in the 2012 draft: a sixth-rounder if they make the playoffs and a seventh-rounder if they don't, a league source told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Feb. 18 stripped the Lions of their 2011 seventh-round pick (205th overall), acquired in a trade with the Denver Broncos, for publicly commenting on their desire to acquire players then under contract to the Kansas City Chiefs.

Goodell's order that the Lions and Chiefs exchange fifth-round picks in the April 28-30 draft -- Kansas City receiving the round's ninth selection (140th overall) and Detroit the 23rd (154th overall) -- remains intact.

The Chiefs filed tampering charges after Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who was Kansas City's coordinator from 1995 to 2000, told the Detroit Free Press in February 2010 that he wouldn't mind signing players the Chiefs might release.

"(Kansas City) keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys," Cunningham told the newspaper.

The Lions also were cited for impermissible contact with a player (or his agent) then under contract to the Chiefs. According to the Free Press, the player in question was safety Jarrad Page, whom the Chiefs traded last year to the New England Patriots.

Goodell revealed March 22 that an appeal had been filed, although he didn't identify the Lions as the team that had appealed. The Chiefs also could have appealed the ruling.

 

[Stitch01]

Forfeit a seventh round pick and swap fifth or sixth rounders isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's just not going to be anything like a first round pick or anything like that. The Jets worried so little about it that they signed Revis like 20 minutes after free agency started.

That's a good thing for the league, big penalties here would be massive overkill.

 

[jsinger121]

Good take by Greg Bedard on the Revis to the Jets and what is next for the Patriots.
 
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/03/13/new-england-patriots-darrelle-revis-new-york-jets/

 

[Corsi]

Michael Giardi ‏@MikeGiardi  16s17 seconds ago
How far apart were the Patriots and Revis? Source tells me "the Pats wouldn't go north of 30 million guaranteed." #patriotstalk #Patriots

 

[jsinger121]

 
Michael Giardi ‏@MikeGiardi  16s17 seconds ago
How far apart were the Patriots and Revis? Source tells me "the Pats wouldn't go north of 30 million guaranteed." #patriotstalk #Patriots
 

 
Not surprised. I could see the pats guaranteeing a deal fully for injury only but there is no way they would guarantee it fully for a skill decline.

 

[Tony C]

Damn John Idzik! He cleaned out their cap situation and got fired for it.

 
He must be sitting in Jacksonville or whereever he is thinking...damn, I did the hard work and didn't get to have the fun.
 
 

With all the "jets suck" talk, do people forget NE beat the Jets by a combined 3 pts last season including one win on a blocked FG?

 
um..do you forget how many wins the Jets had and that the Pats, you know, won the Super Bowl? The idea there was just a thin line between them is absurd.

 

[reggiecleveland]

 

[Corsi]

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

No signing bonus?  That's odd.  Figured the only reason it was for 5 years was for cap amortization.

 

[mcpickl]

No signing bonus?  That's odd.  Figured the only reason it was for 5 years was for cap amortization.

I think the 5 years was so the Jets can claim they held the line and kept Revis to a 14M per year average salary.
 
And no signing bonus is how Revis(as led by Sean Gilbert) rolls. Allowed Gilbert to use the Jets having to put his guaranteed future salaries into escrow as part of his failed platform to get control of the NFLPA. Also takes away the Jets ability to threaten to go after a Revis signing bonus when Revis is holding out before 2017 or 2018. If he gets paid salary instead of a bonus, they have nothing to threaten him with in a holdout.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN  43s44 seconds ago
Kraft said Pats made very competitive offer to keep Revis. Said Revis felt commitment to Jets.
 

 

[ivanvamp]

Why would Revis feel any commitment to the Jets, the team that dealt him away to Tampa Bay?  
 
EDIT:  I wish Lester felt the same commitment to the Sox.....

 

[BlackJack]

EDIT:  I wish Lester felt the same commitment to the Sox.....

If the Sox had been willing to offer the biggest contract, he would have.

 

[ivanvamp]

If the Sox had been willing to offer the biggest contract, he would have.

 
My point exactly.  Commitment to the team that traded you = offered the most $$.  

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Here's a full article from Meyers:
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/myers-patriots-owner-wanted-revis-belichick-made-call-article-1.2160079
 
This is a main reason the Patriots are successful.:
 
It doesn’t sound like Kraft and Belichick actually got into a heated argument, but while Kraft wanted Revis, Belichick convinced him matching the Jets' offer would exceed what they had budgeted and would blow up the salary cap in future years. “I put my faith and respect with Bill and we have a lot of thorough discussions,” Kraft said Monday. “He’s done pretty good the last 15 years. The fan in me argues all the time with him, but he’s got a pretty good record.”
 
Kraft learned after Parcells to get the F' out of the way when he has someone good in charge. 

 

[E5 Yaz]

RichCimini Rich Cimini
Of the Jets' 11 player acquisitions (via FA signing and trades), seven will be at least 30 years old when the season starts.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

RichCimini Rich Cimini
Of the Jets' 11 player acquisitions (via FA signing and trades), seven will be at least 30 years old when the season starts.

 
The only thing better than a crappy team is an old, crappy team.

 

[theapportioner]

I think that's more over-30 people than are on the entire Patriots roster.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I mean, this isn't news, but it really points out organization strength. The Jets have to put a product on the field this season ... so established players make sense in that regard. But unless they draft well, it's a short term fix.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I mean, this isn't news, but it really points out organization strength. The Jets have to put a product on the field this season ... so established players make sense in that regard. But unless they draft well, it's a short term fix.

 
The Jets offense revolves around Ryan Fitzpatrick and Chris Ivory.
 
This team is fucking boned.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I love the juxtaposition of that stat about new jets players and the fact that an already wildly successful Patriots team just became the youngest ever to win a Super Bowl.