theapportioner said:I mean, who knows with Goodell, but if the added cost of tampering for Revis's services is a 6th, then the Jets do it 100 times out of 100. Other teams see this and will be more brazen about it. If it gets worse, teams will have a hard time extending their best players. Let's say it's the middle of the last season before Gronk goes to free agency. Let's say that the Jets are whispering stuff like, "hey Gronk, we'll give you a 10 year 200 million contract with 100 guaranteed. But only if you stay healthy or fake an injury so you don't play the rest of the season. Gronk then goes "cool, NYC has hot chicks", decides to get Ellsbury-itis, sits out the rest of the year, and within 2 seconds of free agency signs that massive contract with the Jets.
That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.
I kind of agree with you here. If the penatlies are going to be so light, why even have the rule? I don't even care if the Patriots get a pick as a result. What about some cap penalties applied to the NYJ for the next few years? That'd deter teams, I think. Tamper with a player, sign him with a cap hit of 10 million per year? OK, for the next 3 years you have a $10 million cap penalty.theapportioner said:That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.
True, but a MEMO HAS BEEN SENT.Stitch01 said:Yeah, Id put a 6th rounder as one of the better possible outcomes for the Pats. Its tampering, but ROG isn't bringing the hammer down here, and I don't really think he should.
Not in time for this statement, but yeah, that's a whole separate league stupidity issue.Ed Hillel said:True, but a MEMO HAS BEEN SENT.
Wouldn't talking with him anytime before 4pm on Tuesday have also been tampering? He wasn't an impending FA so he was not subject ot the legal tampering period and, according to Reiss, the team did not grant him permission to shop himself, like they did with BrownerStitch01 said:Not in time for this statement, but yeah, that's a whole separate league stupidity issue.
If the Jets were discussing numbers with Revis last season, then yes, they should be heavily penalized but for Woody making a statement that they wanted Revis on their team? Yeah, low draft pick/fine slap on the wrist seems fine to me.
theapportioner said:I mean, who knows with Goodell, but if the added cost of tampering for Revis's services is a 6th, then the Jets do it 100 times out of 100. Other teams see this and will be more brazen about it. If it gets worse, teams will have a hard time extending their best players. Let's say it's the middle of the last season before Gronk goes to free agency. Let's say that the Jets are whispering stuff like, "hey Gronk, we'll give you a 10 year 200 million contract with 100 guaranteed. But only if you stay healthy or fake an injury so you don't play the rest of the season. Gronk then goes "cool, NYC has hot chicks", decides to get Ellsbury-itis, sits out the rest of the year, and within 2 seconds of free agency signs that massive contract with the Jets.
That's an extreme scenario but not entirely implausible if the consequences of tampering do not outweigh the benefits of doing so.
Wouldn't talking with him anytime before 4pm on Tuesday have also been tampering? He wasn't an impending FA so he was not subject ot the legal tampering period and, according to Reiss, the team did not grant him permission to shop himself, like they did with Browner
Aside from the Woody comments a while back, not that I'm aware. But even if there is, Kensil wouldn't leak it anyway.Stitch01 said:Yes. Do we have any evidence the Jets did that or any evidence that they acted in a way outside of NFL custom?
Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.Stitch01 said:Yes. Do we have any evidence the Jets did that or any evidence that they acted in a way outside of NFL custom?
We could. I think that is another "Im shocked there is gambling going on here" bullshit NFL investigation where ROG is going to target one team to pay up for rules everyone was violating for years, but we shall see. We don't know there is anything Jets/Revis related there. Im specifically referring to appropriate punishment for the Woody comments that were the cause of the Pats formal complaint.steveluck7 said:Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.
Well yeah, nobody's arguing with this. But the rules are there, this is as black and white a violation as there could possibly be, so whether it's stupid or bullshit or whatever isn't relevant. And the fact that tampering has been especially in the spotlight over the last week - for far murky infractions - there should be MORE pressure on the league office to penalize clown shoes woody.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
I personally think that the "tampering" effects from Woody's comments are significantly overblown. I am convinced (and maybe Otto can prove me wrong) that the communication between Agents, owners, players, GM, scouts, etc... is rampant and unchecked. Specifically I am saying that I am convinced that Woody could have (and very well may have) picked up his phone and called Revis' agent at any point during Revis' time with the Patriots and talked in detail about his desire to bring him back to NY and that those types of calls and chats happen consistently from all teams at all times. I believe that we are privy to maybe 5% of the total negotiation and communication that happens about player deals through media leaks.
Maybe I am way off in those assumptions, but I have a hard time believing that teams actual follow the rules like some others seem to believe.
I think the tampering "rules" exist solely for PR purposes so that the league can beat their chest and make it appear that everything is on the straight and narrow between agents and teams. Using those assumptions Woody's comments really don't matter and the team might get a slap on the wrist because of them to at least keep up the farce.
steveluck7 said:Well we don't know for certain but if the NFL is sincere in their investigation and follows through on the request that teams retain their phone records, and if one of the "specific teams" was the NYJ, we could find out.
I talked with a current player about this very thing this offseason. He was an impending free agent, but he said that agents and team reps do talk, but that much of the time the agent is initiating conversation on behalf of players (now, this player wasn't a primo FA or anything). He said they put out feelers and gauge interest whenever they're talking about other players represented by the same agent or if they're at a workout or at the combine, etc.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
I personally think that the "tampering" effects from Woody's comments are significantly overblown. I am convinced (and maybe Otto can prove me wrong) that the communication between Agents, owners, players, GM, scouts, etc... is rampant and unchecked. Specifically I am saying that I am convinced that Woody could have (and very well may have) picked up his phone and called Revis' agent at any point during Revis' time with the Patriots and talked in detail about his desire to bring him back to NY and that those types of calls and chats happen consistently from all teams at all times. I believe that we are privy to maybe 5% of the total negotiation and communication that happens about player deals through media leaks.
The Daily ShowGet More: Daily Show Full Episodes,The Daily Show on Facebook,Daily Show Video ArchivePxer said:I talked with a current player about this very thing this offseason. He was an impending free agent, but he said that agents and team reps do talk, but that much of the time the agent is initiating conversation on behalf of players (now, this player wasn't a primo FA or anything). He said they put out feelers and gauge interest whenever they're talking about other players represented by the same agent or if they're at a workout or at the combine, etc.
I don't think any of that is really anything new to us, but this player seemed to insinuate that conversations happen like this all the time, particularly in the offseason, even so far as deal frameworks being laid.
Given the recent request of the NFL for teams to maintain phone records, I'm sure some precautions are taken otherwise we'd hear more leaks and investigations into funny business if it were entirely blatant.
I'll take the under, way under. I'll be shocked if the penalty is greater than a 6th and a fine.Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:Well yeah, nobody's arguing with this. But the rules are there, this is as black and white a violation as there could possibly be, so whether it's stupid or bullshit or whatever isn't relevant. And the fact that tampering has been especially in the spotlight over the last week - for far murky infractions - there should be MORE pressure on the league office to penalize clown shoes woody.
My best guess: Take away a jets late rounder and pats and jets swap slots in the third round.
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:You're probably right, but that's actually a lesser penalty than the precedent-setting one involving the 49ers tampering with the Bears LB Lance Briggs. In that case, I believe the penalty was forfeiture of a 5th rounder and a swap of 3rd round draft slots.
It wasa trade. Jets had non frivolous claim to contractual right to BBs services.Marbleheader said:Didn't the Jets get a first from the Patriots for tampering with Belichick? I guess it was more of a trade.
The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.Keep in mind the Bears re-signed Briggs there. That's why, if the NFL is serious about the Jets tampering (which I have said I do not expect they will be) any penalty would need to be much more significant.
EvilEmpire said:The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.
EvilEmpire said:The 49ers contacted Briggs' agent. Woody Johnson said something stupid during a press conference. I think Johnson will get a fine and that will be that.
You might be right, but that Detroit situation was also more than those comments. The Lions reached out directly to Jarrad Page. Also, would it surprise anyone if owners were judged on a different standard than coaches, staff or players?PayrodsFirstClutchHit said:The Lions lost a pick in 2011 and had to swap a 5th rounder with KC for a public comment from the defensive coordinator. Fox Sports story below.
(Kansas City) keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys,” Cunningham told the Detroit Free Press in February.
The Chiefs brought tampering charges against the Lions for comments made by defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham
As a result of the Goodell's ruling:
• Detroit will forfeit its seventh-round pick (acquired from Denver) in the 2011 draft.
• Kansas City and Detroit will switch fifth-round picks in 2011 too. As a result, Kansas City now will have the ninth selection of the round and Detroit the 23rd selection
The Lions didn’t end up signing any of the Kansas City’s free agents. Woody's comment was directed at a specific player that they ended up signing. I do not see just a fine here.
The Detroit Lions' seventh-round selection in this year's NFL draft has been reinstated after a hearing on their appeal of sanctions issued for violating the league's tampering policy, the NFL confirmed Thursday.
The Lions instead will lose one pick in the 2012 draft: a sixth-rounder if they make the playoffs and a seventh-rounder if they don't, a league source told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Feb. 18 stripped the Lions of their 2011 seventh-round pick (205th overall), acquired in a trade with the Denver Broncos, for publicly commenting on their desire to acquire players then under contract to the Kansas City Chiefs.
Goodell's order that the Lions and Chiefs exchange fifth-round picks in the April 28-30 draft -- Kansas City receiving the round's ninth selection (140th overall) and Detroit the 23rd (154th overall) -- remains intact.
The Chiefs filed tampering charges after Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who was Kansas City's coordinator from 1995 to 2000, told the Detroit Free Press in February 2010 that he wouldn't mind signing players the Chiefs might release.
"(Kansas City) keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys," Cunningham told the newspaper.
The Lions also were cited for impermissible contact with a player (or his agent) then under contract to the Chiefs. According to the Free Press, the player in question was safety Jarrad Page, whom the Chiefs traded last year to the New England Patriots.
Goodell revealed March 22 that an appeal had been filed, although he didn't identify the Lions as the team that had appealed. The Chiefs also could have appealed the ruling.
Corsi said:
Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi 16s17 seconds ago
How far apart were the Patriots and Revis? Source tells me "the Pats wouldn't go north of 30 million guaranteed." #patriotstalk #Patriots
ShaneTrot said:Damn John Idzik! He cleaned out their cap situation and got fired for it.
j44thor said:With all the "jets suck" talk, do people forget NE beat the Jets by a combined 3 pts last season including one win on a blocked FG?
I think the 5 years was so the Jets can claim they held the line and kept Revis to a 14M per year average salary.MentalDisabldLst said:No signing bonus? That's odd. Figured the only reason it was for 5 years was for cap amortization.
Gary Myers @garymyersNYDN 43s44 seconds ago
Kraft said Pats made very competitive offer to keep Revis. Said Revis felt commitment to Jets.
If the Sox had been willing to offer the biggest contract, he would have.ivanvamp said:EDIT: I wish Lester felt the same commitment to the Sox.....
BlackJack said:If the Sox had been willing to offer the biggest contract, he would have.
E5 Yaz said:RichCimini Rich Cimini
Of the Jets' 11 player acquisitions (via FA signing and trades), seven will be at least 30 years old when the season starts.
E5 Yaz said:I mean, this isn't news, but it really points out organization strength. The Jets have to put a product on the field this season ... so established players make sense in that regard. But unless they draft well, it's a short term fix.