RIP Toucher and Rich Show ... It was fun while it lasted

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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That's a pretty good point, but there wasn't a whole lot of that in Fred's rant yesterday. Edes wrote a column about Bobby Valentine, not about Toucher and Rich. He mentioned the question Rich asked as a vehicle of showing Bobby V's misguided belief that he's the best man for the job.

Edes didn't say anything negative about the show, or Rich, he just said it was weird for talk show hosts to be at a pre-game PC, and that if they were looking for a reaction out of Bobby V, (which I think it's insane to argue that they were NOT) that they probably didn't get what they wanted.

That's not being condescending, that's not sticking up for the "way things are done" and it's not some sort of warning that these yahoo radio hosts need to shut their mouths when the big boys are talking. It was a throw-away sentence and a half to make a larger point about Bobby Valentine.
But why is it "weird"? Why does it need to be addressed? A lot of Edes' audiance does't know T&R and the question wasn't "wacky", it was a legit question in a legit space. Put it this way, the Red Sox have this dog-and-pony show twice a day (before and after the games) aside from figuring out who's hurt (which I am sure most of the beat guys already know) and to announce a transaction, what's the point? From my perspective, the point is to ask the manager questions. That's what Rich did.

Was it the best question, was it a pointed question, I don't know. Personally, I don't think so.

OK, but Edes didn't do that. And I got news for you, none of the other writers even mentioned that Rich was there. Edes was the only one, and he hardly was looking down his nose at Rich for being there. Not one other Boston writer has made mention of Rich's question. So I'm not sure what the "BOSTON MEDIA ASSEMBLE" idea has to do with this situation here.
I don't think that T&R would agree with you here because Mazz was certainly talking about how cute it was that Rich was going to his first press conference, Gresh was asking how he (Rich) could get a press pass, there was a story from Newsday (I think) making fun of them, Sports Talk Matt was ripping them. It's just another example of the circling the wagons mentality, just like they jumped on Joe Haggerty for writing about John Lackey walking around double-fisted. I get that sports writers are protective of their turf, they have a nice thing going, but this isn't Kappa Epsilon Gamma. Not everyone wants to be hazed to join the Springstreen Club.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but again, Edes doesn't do these things. Edes has called for Bobby to be fired several times this season, he has reported a lot on the clubhouse dysfunction, and he wrote a great column ripping on Lucchino's letter to the Season Ticket holders. He's hardly some front office mouthpiece.
I never said that Edes is a mouth piece for the Sox. And for the third time, I like Edes he does a lot of the site and he seems like a good guy.

Towards the end of the show I thought Fred was actually being totally honest when he said that T&R is not a sports talk show, they try to make people laugh in the morning. Rich might be the best production guy in the country, and if he asked that question and Bobby blows up then they have material until the end of the season, bits, songs, whatever, and their presence at the press conference was in part to ask a question from the fans but also in part to get a reaction from Bobby, I don't think there's any possible way you can deny that. If Bobby blows up, I doubt they go after Edes, because what Edes wrote really wasn't anything sensational or negative about them.

T&R aren't typical sports talk show hosts, and I think that what they do every morning is refreshing, entertaining, and overall fantastic radio. But flipping out on Edes like that was, IMO, an overreaction due to the fact that they didn't get the bit they wanted from Bobby.
I didn't listen to the end of the show (I assume you're meaning today) where Fred admitted that he wanted Bobby to blow up, because yesterday he was very, very adamant that that wasn't their reason for being there at all. Like I said, I think that Fred's rant was mostly on the Boston writers and he just happened to use Gordon Edes as the personification, the focal point, of what's wrong with the Boston media. I happen to agree (about the media). Actually, I was thinking about it today and I think that if newspapers/media outlets really cared about their readership they'd have a new beat writers every two years to keep things fresh.
 

Haunted

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Gordon's sanctimony? What he wrote was really not all that sanctimonious at all. T&R went into the clubhouse to get sound from Bobby Valentine, they don't go in there very often, it was a calculated move for the program.
Forgive me, my ire was misplaced. It was more in reference to the NYT writer (who's name escapes me and a cursory google search yielded nothing) that the question was "breathlessly" asked, and gave the tone of "how dare he". Add to that my general dislike of sports writers (or talk show hosts) and I mistakenly lumped in Edes (who I actually like quite a bit).


Regardless, I completely agree with JMOH's post.
 

URI

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When Sports Talk Matt was laying down the rules, I lost it when Rich deadpanned "I met the Pope".
 

Judge Mental13

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But why is it "weird"? Why does it need to be addressed? A lot of Edes' audiance does't know T&R and the question wasn't "wacky", it was a legit question in a legit space. Put it this way, the Red Sox have this dog-and-pony show twice a day (before and after the games) aside from figuring out who's hurt (which I am sure most of the beat guys already know) and to announce a transaction, what's the point? From my perspective, the point is to ask the manager questions. That's what Rich did.

Was it the best question, was it a pointed question, I don't know. Personally, I don't think so.
It was weird because 1.) T&R are never at Fenway press conferences and 2.) Sports radio guys in general are never at pre-game Press Conferences. That's what Gordon said, that's why it was weird.

He wasn't chastising them for being there, all he really did was acknowledge them and their question in order to make a larger point about Bobby Valentine. You'd think from Fred's reaction that Gordon wrote a hatchet piece on their show and their place in the scope of Boston Sports Media, he did neither.

I don't think that T&R would agree with you here because Mazz was certainly talking about how cute it was that Rich was going to his first press conference, Gresh was asking how he (Rich) could get a press pass, there was a story from Newsday (I think) making fun of them, Sports Talk Matt was ripping them. It's just another example of the circling the wagons mentality, just like they jumped on Joe Haggerty for writing about John Lackey walking around double-fisted. I get that sports writers are protective of their turf, they have a nice thing going, but this isn't Kappa Epsilon Gamma. Not everyone wants to be hazed to join the Springstreen Club.
Ok, so now we're supposed to feel bad for T&R because guys from their OWN STATION were joking with them about going to a their first press conference of the season with less than a month left when the team is in last place? Come on. Cafardo, McAdam, Browne, literally NONE of the other Sox writers even made mention of the fact that T&R were there. It was a non-issue.

And Matt was upset at T&R because they called Gordon Edes a prick on the air. That was the crux of his rant yesterday and T&R focused mostly on the few minutes he spent on clubhouse etiquette, which I admit, wasn't a particularly strong part of his argument.


I never said that Edes is a mouth piece for the Sox. And for the third time, I like Edes he does a lot of the site and he seems like a good guy.
So then you don't have a problem with T&R calling him a prick on their show? Of all the guys in Boston Sports Media to call a condescending prick they go after Edes because he made a passing mention of the fact that they were in the clubhouse?

I didn't listen to the end of the show (I assume you're meaning today) where Fred admitted that he wanted Bobby to blow up, because yesterday he was very, very adamant that that wasn't their reason for being there at all. Like I said, I think that Fred's rant was mostly on the Boston writers and he just happened to use Gordon Edes as the personification, the focal point, of what's wrong with the Boston media. I happen to agree (about the media). Actually, I was thinking about it today and I think that if newspapers/media outlets really cared about their readership they'd have a new beat writers every two years to keep things fresh.
He didn't admit that they were there to make Bobby blow up, but just using common sense and the fact that I listen to these guys all the time you can sort of connect the dots. They hadn't been to a press conference all year, and what is Rich's specialty? It's using sound to make bits, songs, etc. and he's a master at it. If Bobby gave them something they could have used you don't think Rich would've run wild with it?

Thus, weren't they there to try and get Bobby to say something that they could use on their show? I'm sure Fred was adamant that it wasn't some wacky radio stunt, and it certainly wasn't, but to act as if their only intention was to ask Bobby a question from the fans, and not to use what he said one their show in some capacity or another, is being pretty naive, IMO.

There are ways to attack the media without singling a guy like Edes out and calling him a prick on your radio show, and when you call out a guy who is respected by many like Edes is, there is likely to be some backlash.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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He didn't admit that they were there to make Bobby blow up, but just using common sense and the fact that I listen to these guys all the time you can sort of connect the dots. They hadn't been to a press conference all year, and what is Rich's specialty? It's using sound to make bits, songs, etc. and he's a master at it. If Bobby gave them something they could have used you don't think Rich would've run wild with it?

Thus, weren't they there to try and get Bobby to say something that they could use on their show? I'm sure Fred was adamant that it wasn't some wacky radio stunt, and it certainly wasn't, but to act as if their only intention was to ask Bobby a question from the fans, and not to use what he said one their show in some capacity or another, is being pretty naive, IMO.

There are ways to attack the media without singling a guy like Edes out and calling him a prick on your radio show, and when you call out a guy who is respected by many like Edes is, there is likely to be some backlash.
So you're basing your argument on you connecting the dots? Ok. They said they weren't there to do that, but I guess everyone has hidden agendas.

And I don't expect you to feel bad for anyone. You asked why they attacked Edes, I told you why I think that they attached Edes. He was the personification of their struggles against the Boston Media. And really, when was the last time Gordon Edes ever wrote about another writer or reporter's questions? He did it for one reason, to make a little in-joke at the wacky zoo-crew guys from the Hub who don't know shit about sports. How dare Rich go into his sacred space and ask Bobby Valentine a silly question from a fan? Don't they know that this is holy area where only serious journalists convene and discuss the day's proceedings?

It's just lame.
 

Judge Mental13

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So you're basing your argument on you connecting the dots? Ok. They said they weren't there to do that, but I guess everyone has hidden agendas.

And I don't expect you to feel bad for anyone. You asked why they attacked Edes, I told you why I think that they attached Edes. He was the personification of their struggles against the Boston Media. And really, when was the last time Gordon Edes ever wrote about another writer or reporter's questions? He did it for one reason, to make a little in-joke at the wacky zoo-crew guys from the Hub who don't know shit about sports. How dare Rich go into his sacred space and ask Bobby Valentine a silly question from a fan? Don't they know that this is holy area where only serious journalists convene and discuss the day's proceedings?

It's just lame.
I don't think he did that at all. Nothing about his column came off as condescending, in fact, the quote that Rich elicited ("I'm the best man for the job") was the HEADLINE of Gordon's column. If he took a swipe at T&R it was the weakest swipe of all time and the idea that it was an in-joke that the "wacky morning guys from the Hub" don't belong on his turf is a big stretch.

If other writers had a problem with Rich being there, they certainly didn't mention it, they may have thought it privately, but I think it's a little silly to criticize the entire stable of beat writers based on what someone thinks they're thinking, because they certainly didn't write it.
 

JimBoSox9

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I can't escape the feeling that the minute the show signs off, Toucher is on Skype with Edes and they're both uncontrollably giggling.
 

URI

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Yeah they were terrible today
 

PedroKsBambino

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I enjoy the show, and have been listening to them since the bcn days, but they just aren't all that good on straight sports topics other than hockey. They can do entertaining sports talk well, and they have so much funny stuff it's well worth listening too but I don't think it plays to their strengths to really do straight sports talk without a guest who brings some deep knowledge
 

kenneycb

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Honestly that's probably why I like them so much. I get enough sports info from this site and surfing the web while pretending to do my job. I like that they bring a different perspective and do some bits that ate vaguely sports related. Sure as hell beats listening to the drive time morning hosts do an obnoxious fake laugh at every shitty joke someone tells. At least T&R are legitimately hilarious many, many times. The fact they use sports as a background is an added plus. Where else am I going to hear about Bobby V alerting counties about snowstorms, dry cleaning his clothes in high school or inventing a wrap?
 

Darnell's Son

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I enjoy the show, and have been listening to them since the bcn days, but they just aren't all that good on straight sports topics other than hockey. They can do entertaining sports talk well, and they have so much funny stuff it's well worth listening too but I don't think it plays to their strengths to really do straight sports talk without a guest who brings some deep knowledge
The bolded is my issue with the show. If Wallach was replaced with someone who knew things about sports aside from batting averages of baseball players from the 1990s, then I think this show could be amazing. Both Toucher and Rich know how to talk sports passably, but when an issue comes up they ask Wallach to clarify, and half the time he stammers and says "I'm not sure, but here's what I think...." If he isn't sure he should Google it, and he should be sure more often than he is. Wallach is abysmal in his role as the sports guru on the show and needs to be replaced. I would rather have them have some young enthusiastic kid who knows his shit than Wallach.
 

HomeBrew1901

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It's funny that you guys posted that above, they just tried to do a bit making fun of Felger because Wallach found a 5 page email that Felger did as prep work that was sent to Wiggy, Mazz and the rest of the crew along with 15 or 16 articles attached that he thought they should read.

They teased the "found playbook" at 7:40, tried to make fun of it for 10 minutes and went to a commercial break. During the break they must have realized it was falling flat or just wasn't as funny as they thought it would be and came back and said "That wasn't meant to be negative against Felger it's impressive how much work he puts into the show." It was really really weak.

They made up for it though at the top of the hour with the Replacement game, but the playbook thing was just painful to listen to especially given how poor they have been in trying to discuss sports the last few days.
 

drtooth

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The problem that they may have is that many sports guys can be humorless at best (see the guy in Nashua). Wallach has at least allowed himself to be the butt of jokes and trying to get someone in there that will be willing to be part of bits and not think it is "beneath them" on a sports talk morning show would be a bit difficult.
 

HomeBrew1901

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I disagree Drtooth. Wallach is the butt of their jokes because they don't respect him, he serves little purpose and is an easy target, he's barely one rung higher than Adolfo.

You could put either Johnson or Flynn in there and not only would it raise the level of sports discussion but they would become part of the team as opposed to a side kick because they wouldn't allow T&R to push them around. Make fun of them here or there like they do everyone else but not be the butt of the jokes.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I disagree Drtooth. Wallach is the butt of their jokes because they don't respect him, he serves little purpose and is an easy target, he's barely one rung higher than Adolfo.
I'm not sure if I agree with this. I don't listen as much as you (my commute is far shorter) but from what I can gather the jokes about Wallach and Fred's exasperation of him seem to have tailed off a lot. Last week Fred was talking about Rich's charity and Rich said something to the effect that he couldn't have done it without the help of his coworkers and said some nice things about Fred (of course) and talked about how much Wallach helped him out (both with time and money). It seemed genuine to me.

Again, I don't listen that much so for all I know Fred could blast him every minute from 6:00 to 8:00 and then from 9:00 to 10:00 and I would have no idea, but Wallach has seemed to calm down a bit and the others have noticed. Because of that, I think that Wallach has improved 100% since his first days at the station. I don't find him nearly as annoying and I think that he contributes a lot while staying out of the way.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Awesome interview, Pollard is one cool dude.

Edit: Ranting is the wrong word for it. He was very articulate about the replacement refs being in over their heads and that the NFL has to protect the brand and get the real refs back.

Not a head hunter and doesn't like the Patriot Killer label. Hit on Brady was a legal play and he had a running back on top of him not intentional.

Welker, didn't even touch him, he cut and got hurt.

Gronk, Tried to bring down a guy 6"5 280 Pounds (whatever) and got taken for a ride.

Plays football the right way without the intention of injuring players and he plays hard but is not dirty, but it is a violent sport and things are going to happen.

Edit 2: He also took it in stride and joked about the 1 minute of "10 seconds of glory" directed at him. That part was great, he could have been a dick about it but he understands and was laughing along with it.
 

Andy Merchant

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Let's not forget the giant Wallach face that Adolfo will be holding while waiting in the iPhone 5 line at the Apple Store:

 

HomeBrew1901

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Oh man, this is a tad uncomfortable.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was a "gotcha" bit at first, but then it sounded like Rich was going to start crying and fire him on the spot. This may be the final nail in Adofo's coffin because he was so full of crap and his story kept changing.

I really cringed when he said it was a tall black guy that stole the sign because I don't think he even has a clue. He fell asleep, someone took it, and he woke up and it was gone.


Edit: And now it is all one big joke. Fucking hack radio this week. First trying to discuss sports and failing, then trying to make fun of Felger and Mazz only to backtrack and have Felger and Mazz do a better job during their show making fun, and now this. Hackey radio and it is really unlike them.
 

erfus

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Edit: And now it is all one big joke. Fucking hack radio this week. First trying to discuss sports and failing, then trying to make fun of Felger and Mazz only to backtrack and have Felger and Mazz do a better job during their show making fun, and now this. Hackey radio and it is really unlike them.
I didn't hear any of the earlier stuff when they were trying to get through to Adolfo, but I heard them try to defend it for the remainder of the show, have Adolfo on to assure listeners all was cool, etc. I guess they got some negative instant feedback on the segment. Fred seemed surprised about the reaction, said something like they had said far worse on BCN, but I think that's part of the issue. People like me didn't listen to them on BCN, enjoy the show for what it is on the Sports Hub, and just get kinda confused with all this Adolfo stuff. I'm not offended by it at all, don't care if it is "unprofessional", I simply think it's not very interesting radio. Someone stealing Wallach's giant head is kinda funny, but Adolfo's incompetence isn't at all nor are T&R's attempts to get him to somehow better his job performance.
 

HomeBrew1901

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I heard the entire segment and I'm a little pissed because I don't like being jerked around as a listener because this show is better than that. If they had started it off with busting his balls about losing the head and just riffed on his stupidity it would have been great. Instead they berated him on the air, literally made it sound like Rich was about to cry because Adolfo was going to be fired that very second for doing nothing the last 6 months, and then came back after break practically laughing about it. No wonder Adolfo didn't really take them seriously when Rich asked him if he had anything say because he knew it was a bit.

Frankly that sucks to me. I suppose it's possible that they berated him, felt they took it too far and wanted to make peace with him so everyone would feel hunky dory for the weekend, but if that is the case they took it way too far in both directions.
 

Haunted

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Edit: And now it is all one big joke. Fucking hack radio this week. First trying to discuss sports and failing, then trying to make fun of Felger and Mazz only to backtrack and have Felger and Mazz do a better job during their show making fun, and now this. Hackey radio and it is really unlike them.
What part was the joke? I only heard up to the "talk" with Adolpho, and then heard the crossover where Fatty and Zo offered up the Zolak cutout for the return. Was the head not really stolen? Or was that spectacularly uncomfortable "confrontation" a setup?

T&R have never really stooped to that fake radio stunt stuff (think Mike Adams' phony lock in or anything Rocko ever did for WAAF), I'd be surprised and disappointed if they started now.
 

HomeBrew1901

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What part was the joke? I only heard up to the "talk" with Adolpho, and then heard the crossover where Fatty and Zo offered up the Zolak cutout for the return. Was the head not really stolen? Or was that spectacularly uncomfortable "confrontation" a setup?

T&R have never really stooped to that fake radio stunt stuff (think Mike Adams' phony lock in or anything Rocko ever did for WAAF), I'd be surprised and disappointed if they started now.
I thought the initial "talk" was real, but after the way they came back laughing about it, I got the feeling the whole thing was a setup. I think he truly got the head stolen last night but this morning's dressing down was planned.
 

JimBoSox9

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I disagree 100% with HB's interpretation of the event. They lit into Adolpho pretty bad, but worse than the other shit they give him only by degree. They got blown up with negative listener reaction, and spent the next segment defending themselves. The 'joke', to them, was how seriously people were taking it, not the incident itself. It didn't come off as a staged two-parter at all. They even bumped a guest at the end because of how long the defense went on. That's the kind of random detail I wouldn't expect them to include if they had scripted it all out.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Rich said on last night it definitely was not a bit as well.
of course he is going to say that and if he is responding on FB or Twitter he must be getting a lot of reactions like mine.

Jimbo, I can accept that but I'm still skeptical, the way it all went down, the timing of it (prime commute time), that it lasted exactly one segment, but mostly how emotional T&R were to the point where it sounded like Adolfo was toast and then everything was forgiven and hunky dory in the next segment.

If they were legitimately so upset about his job performance over the last 6 months that he sounded like he was getting canned it just isn't possible to joke with him about it 10 minutes later. The way they dressed him down it should have been "Go home while we think about what to do next" not "Ha Ha where does that rank in on air dress downs"
 

Blacken

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They can't "fire" him anyway. He's under contract to CBS.

Fred just had a big thing on Twitter about it. It was slightly less incoherent than he usually is.
 

URI

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PBDWake

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When they are on, they are on. I'm with Brew on the Cherish the Memories bit this morning. Just really well done.

Also, not T&R per se, but every morning when I listen, I get the CBS Sports Minute with Boomer Esiason. Which really should just be called "Pissy Sniping with Boomer", or "Boomer is Butthurt".
 

teddykgb

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I like to think of that segment as the "We're paying these guys, so goddammit they're going to work sports minute"

which really rolls right off the tongue
 

Rusty13

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T&R just posted this on twitter. Anyone have any links to ratings #s?

@Toucherandrich :
Thanks for once again making Toucher & Rich the #1 Morning Show in Boston for the Summer of 2012! Here's to you, Yahoos!
 

TheRooster

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The CBS Sports Minute is so dumb, T&R, GRESH! & Zo and Felger all make fun of it everytime it comes on.
I think they are laying the groundwork for a CBS Sports Network. NBC is well on its way to mounting a challenge to ABC/ESPN and CBS doesn't want to be left out.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I think they are laying the groundwork for a CBS Sports Network. NBC is well on its way to mounting a challenge to ABC/ESPN and CBS doesn't want to be left out.
You are correct. On his Howard Stern 100 on Sirius radio show yesterday, Scott Farrell said he was leaving for the new CBS Sports radio station, starting in late January.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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You talking about a TV sports network? CBS already has one
http://www.cbssportsnetwork.com/node/838
No, radio networks. Both launched last month, but full programming is scheduled to start in January.

NBC's network is growing out of Dial Global, which already does NFL games and the Olympics among other sports.

CBS already has announced Jim Rome's show will be part of their lineup. Their CBS Sports minute is already airing on Sports Hub and other CBS owned sports stations.
 

steveluck7

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No, radio networks. Both launched last month, but full programming is scheduled to start in January.

NBC's network is growing out of Dial Global, which already does NFL games and the Olympics among other sports.

CBS already has announced Jim Rome's show will be part of their lineup. Their CBS Sports minute is already airing on Sports Hub and other CBS owned sports stations.
Interesting. I hadn't heard about an NBC radio network.
edit: probably explains why Comcast pulled the simulcast of the Dan Patrick show from the air