Rosenthal: Mookie and LAD in agreement: 12/$365

Bergs

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edit: wrong thread. But since I'm here, Mookie is awesome and that contract will not look good on the back 9.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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How would he know what the new fair market value was without testing the market?
He knew that teams weren’t going to make the same money in 2020 that they usually did and that post 2020 season (if there was a season) offers would be lower than if Covid didn’t happen. Then the Dodgers made an offer based on old finances and he was smart enough to grab it.
 

nvalvo

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When you take into consideration his $27m paycheck for 2020 and the $65m difference in the new contracts, our reported offer was 10/$300, and their offer was 13/$392.

These were not comparable offers.
 

Rovin Romine

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When you take into consideration his $27m paycheck for 2020 and the $65m difference in the new contracts, our reported offer was 10/$300, and their offer was 13/$392.

These were not comparable offers.
In what sense? They're both career-long contracts for multi-generational levels of wealth.
 

nvalvo

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The only notable difference between 10/300 and 13/392 is the extra three years. Can't fault Mookie for wanting them and can't fault the Sox for not wanting to give them.
This is true, but I'm not sure I would use the adverb "only." I think 3 years and $92m is pretty notable. For example, it takes us from less than Bryce Harper's deal to more than Bryce Harper's deal.

Here's what I'm saying. There are people in this thread who are acting like Mookie turned down an offer from Boston before accepting something very similar from LAD. Some are rationalizing that apparent inconsistency by pointing out that the pandemic happened in between, etc. But the premises of that conversation are false: as you point out, LA's offer was 30% longer and ~30% more money! Those are not close offers!

Let's do a realistic scenario: let's say, in a few weeks, we offer JBJ a deal worth 2/$25m with an option/buyout that makes it worth 3/$30, but he leaves because Cleveland offers him a three-year deal with an option on the fourth worth about $40m, no one is going to be saying that Bradley obviously "was never going to sign here." I think people will recognize that he accepted the more valuable offer.
 

Rovin Romine

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This is true, but I'm not sure I would use the adverb "only." I think 3 years and $92m is pretty notable. For example, it takes us from less than Bryce Harper's deal to more than Bryce Harper's deal.

Here's what I'm saying. There are people in this thread who are acting like Mookie turned down an offer from Boston before accepting something very similar from LAD. Some are rationalizing that apparent inconsistency by pointing out that the pandemic happened in between, etc. But the premises of that conversation are false: as you point out, LA's offer was 30% longer and ~30% more money! Those are not close offers!

Let's do a realistic scenario: let's say, in a few weeks, we offer JBJ a deal worth 2/$25m with an option/buyout that makes it worth 3/$30, but he leaves because Cleveland offers him a three-year deal with an option on the fourth worth about $40m, no one is going to be saying that Bradley obviously "was never going to sign here." I think people will recognize that he accepted the more valuable offer.
There's a point of diminishing returns. Maybe it's not the same for everyone, but it's there. At some point (perhaps once we're into "hundreds of millions" of dollars) "other things besides the money" should truly begin to matter to most people.

We've seen players turn down better deals of far lesser amounts to to keep playing for the same team. Maybe once you have 60 million in the bank, maybe it's worth it to keep your neighbors, your town, and your kids school and friends, rather than chase a marginal extra 5 million, even if were talking about a 5 v 10 million dollar offer - an increase of 100%!

I'm not saying Mookie's values are flawed or irrational, or that his choice to reject Boston's deal and try FA was either. But please remember, these weren't competing offers he was weighing. Mookie's actual choice was to reject a multi-million dollar career long contract with Boston and risk injury to test the FA market. There can be a number of whys there, but it's sort of impossible to escape the inference that, forwhatever reason, he wanted a huger payday than the one he was offered. When he was in LA, post-Covid, he was offered a contract that he took instead of testing the FA waters, as he said he wanted to. He accepted that one, rather than risk getting a greater or lesser one.
 

allmanbro

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Nitpicking, but with the prorated salaries, didn't Mookie actually make $10mil this year? So the comparison of the options that he was actually considering ends up being something more like 10/300 vs 13/375
 

nvalvo

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Nitpicking, but with the prorated salaries, didn't Mookie actually make $10mil this year? So the comparison of the options that he was actually considering ends up being something more like 10/300 vs 13/375
I guess so. Even so, that's what he actually got paid, but not what he *agreed to get paid,* if that makes sense.

There's a point of diminishing returns. Maybe it's not the same for everyone, but it's there. At some point (perhaps once we're into "hundreds of millions" of dollars) "other things besides the money" should truly begin to matter to most people.

We've seen players turn down better deals of far lesser amounts to to keep playing for the same team. Maybe once you have 60 million in the bank, maybe it's worth it to keep your neighbors, your town, and your kids school and friends, rather than chase a marginal extra 5 million, even if were talking about a 5 v 10 million dollar offer - an increase of 100%!

I'm not saying Mookie's values are flawed or irrational, or that his choice to reject Boston's deal and try FA was either. But please remember, these weren't competing offers he was weighing. Mookie's actual choice was to reject a multi-million dollar career long contract with Boston and risk injury to test the FA market. There can be a number of whys there, but it's sort of impossible to escape the inference that, forwhatever reason, he wanted a huger payday than the one he was offered. When he was in LA, post-Covid, he was offered a contract that he took instead of testing the FA waters, as he said he wanted to. He accepted that one, rather than risk getting a greater or lesser one.
Everything you're saying describes things that could have been his motivation for accepting either a greater or a lesser offer. I don't dispute any of that, and I wouldn't want to second guess his motivations, whatever they were.

What I'm saying is that the offers were meaningfully different, which you seem to agree with, given that you're talking about why a person might accept a lesser offer — as Boston's in fact was. All I am saying is that he did not turn down an offer from Boston, before accepting an equivalent offer from LA. That narrative is false. He turned down a pre-FA offer from Boston, only to accept a considerably larger pre-FA offer from LA.

Maybe his wife likes Los Angeles. That's approximately what he said on the podcast, and that would likely be how I would make the decision if I were in his shoes. Who knows?
 

sonofgodcf

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There's a point of diminishing returns. Maybe it's not the same for everyone, but it's there. At some point (perhaps once we're into "hundreds of millions" of dollars) "other things besides the money" should truly begin to matter to most people.
Agreed. Too bad John Henry and his billions don't think this way, otherwise a generational player would still be with the Red Sox.
 

JimD

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When you take into consideration his $27m paycheck for 2020 and the $65m difference in the new contracts, our reported offer was 10/$300, and their offer was 13/$392.

These were not comparable offers.
Is there any indication or proof that Boston's 10/$300 offer was a firm one and not subject to additional negotiation? I'm only speculating here, but I believe that if Mookie and his agents were willing to negotiate, the final Sox offer would have been higher (likely well south of $390 million, though).
Agreed. Too bad John Henry and his billions don't think this way, otherwise a generational player would still be with the Red Sox.
The narrative that John Henry & company are cheapskates is getting tired - once Mookie quickly rose to stardom, the team reportedly made multiple efforts over the years to sign him to a lucrative contract that would buy out his arb years and some FA years. Good on Mookie for betting on himself, but IMO also very good to see that the Sox ownership and FO learned from the Lester debacle and took this approach even if Betts wasn't interested (it obviously worked on Xander, though).
 

allmanbro

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I guess so. Even so, that's what he actually got paid, but not what he *agreed to get paid,* if that makes sense.
Right, but he kenw about the 2020 pay cut when he agreed to the Dodgers deal, but not when he rejected the Sox deal. So when he had the Sox offer in hand, it was 10/300, but when he had the Dodgers offer in hand, that plus 2020 totaled 13/375. So I think it should be taken into account when thinking about how someone might go about making those decisions.

Nit picking because whether the gap is $90mill or $75mill probably doesn't change the thought process.
 

billy ashley

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edit: wrong thread. But since I'm here, Mookie is awesome and that contract will not look good on the back 9.

Yeah. The astounding thing about contracts this big is that Betts could go on and continue being an elite player for a couple years, build a slam dunk Hall of Fame case, and still not be worth that contract. He's already amassed 40 career WAR, another 30 would get him to 70. 70 is pretty close to slam dunk territory. And yeah 30 WAR over a decade isn't something to sneeze at... and yeah, LA would probably be disappointed by that.

I loved the guy. He's still my favorite player. It kills me that he's elsewhere, but yeah... that's a massive commitment.