One consideration unmentioned is likelihood of being traded. For an older free agent like Hayward, the likelihood that he finished his next contract in Boston was not especially high. In Charlotte he might be able to expect a bit more stability. That could be important, in addition to the other factors (money, primarily).
Stop hoarding TP(E) - the what should the Celtics do with the TPE thread
- Thread starter NomarsFool
- Start date
Yea, with this condensed schedule it could be a war of attrition.
Several contenders have somewhat fragile stars that have recently been injured for long periods (ie Embiid, Simmons, Kyrie, Durant, AD, Conley). Philly got screwed last season with Simmons out. Boston got screwed in the Toronto/Miami series with a partially broken Kemba/Hayward. Miami got screwed in the Finals with Goran/Bam going down.
The point being is, Danny needs to add some quality depth at wing, play the health luck roulette, and definitely don't throw in the towel this season.
Absolutely. Toronto is the perfect example. They won a title because Klay and KD both exploded during the series. You just never know.
Danny needs to go for it.
Agree. I don’t think the Celtics can beat a healthy Nets team, but the chance the Nets are missing one of their stars in the playoffs, at some point, is probably in the 20% range.
The Celtics absolutely have the personnel to beat anyone else in the East if they’re at full strength, particularly if this version of Kemba holds together.
I know it’s been a frustrating first half, but the Ca are right there and have room to improve.
Edit: Lol everyone is saying the exact same thing. Get it done, Danny.
Problem is, BOS would likely need injury luck from two of BRK/MIL/PHI and whatever team comes out from the west
You don’t think a healthy Celtics team can beat Philly or Milwaukee? Tough matchups for sure but they’re fully capable of beating either team, especially if Ainge makes a move.
End of the day, you just have to be close and I think the Celtics are. They just need to play better and get healthy.
Trade Deadline smoke and mirrors from Danny here hopefully -
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1370017265819717632?s=20
Danny Ainge on his weekly appearance on
@Toucherandrich
on why his preference is to use the Hayward TPE in the offseason: "That's for sure. We're hard-capped. Using the full exception on one player is less likely. It's not impossible."
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1370017265819717632?s=20
Danny Ainge on his weekly appearance on
@Toucherandrich
on why his preference is to use the Hayward TPE in the offseason: "That's for sure. We're hard-capped. Using the full exception on one player is less likely. It's not impossible."
Danny is never going to say anything useful on the radio, but anyone who thinks we're likely to get anything other than a "we were close on a lot of deals but nothing ultimately made sense and I like the team we have" at the deadline is kidding themselves.
What makes you think that Boston can't beat Milwaukee or Philly? I don't think they'd be favored to beat either, but it's not some huge gap.
There was an article out recently (maybe by Forsberg?) that basically looked at the cap situation and seemed to conclude that even this summer, the Celtics would not be able to use the full value of the TPE without sending out significant salary. So, the point of the article was that the hard cap, now vs. summer, didn't really impact much what they can do with the TPE.
Certainly, there is more player movement in the summer and prices are always inflated at the trade deadline. So, there are still reasons to wait.
My expectation is that they make some kind of minor move for some wing depth and/or bring in someone from the buyout market. I wouldn't trade for him, but I think Aldridge would be a nice pick-up.
Certainly, there is more player movement in the summer and prices are always inflated at the trade deadline. So, there are still reasons to wait.
My expectation is that they make some kind of minor move for some wing depth and/or bring in someone from the buyout market. I wouldn't trade for him, but I think Aldridge would be a nice pick-up.
Obviously they could win the series, but I think they would be fairly big underdogs
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1370021963561852932
So Danny's interview was about what I'd expect, this was something that was obvious, but still interesting to hear him say, unlikely they go after a FA to be (maybe including Collins) because there is a lot of cap out there to be spent.
So Danny's interview was about what I'd expect, this was something that was obvious, but still interesting to hear him say, unlikely they go after a FA to be (maybe including Collins) because there is a lot of cap out there to be spent.
I remember reading that and not really agreeing with it. It was based off the premise that the owners wouldn't be willing to pay the big bills, and that isn't really clear at all, especially if they get a re-set this year. If the right player was available, I have no doubt Wyc and company would pay for an extra $29M. It probably means a 2 year window with Kemba, and not replacing Kemba with a max player, but I don't think they'd balk if it was a young player worth that type of cash.
The biggest limitation is that a sign-and-trade of an RFA or UFA in the off-season hard caps them again. Which makes it more difficult to use the full TPE.
I don’t buy the budget or tax excuse at all.
A move for Harrison Barnes alone is very unlikely to elevate the Celtics to a contender. He will almost certainly improve their rotational production but he just isn't at the talent level needed to get past the other contenders. I understand injuries can occur but if the Celtics are using that as a path to the championship, it may be more prudent to keep their powder dry for someone who does more than get them league average production for a given "position".
True but there's no guarantee they'll find anything better than Harrison Barnes this summer. There is both upside and downside to going this route. Barnes would be the "safe" choice. You know you're getting a solid player who occasionally flashes more. You also know you're not getting a star or anyone who you can dream on. Classic high floor, low ceiling move.
There is going to be immense pressure on Ainge to deliver this summer if there is a Barnes deal to be had and he passes and I'm just not convinced that he's going to do any better than a Myles Turner/Harrison Barnes type with this TPE.
As always, I hope to be wrong here.
The tight needle they need to thread is that the TPE is less like powder and more like produce, it has a shelf life and if you don't use it you're in trouble. Barnes' appeal is you can probably use him like the TPE and have him count for at least part of what you give up for him, so if you trade a pick and a player for Barnes into the TPE, you basically extend your ability to salary match 2 years, and Barnes likely keeps some of that value, so a deal that would have been 3 picks 2 players and eating salary into the TPE, now might become 2 picks, and 3 players (including Barnes). And you get a solid player in the meantime.
Ah, I see. But we are hard capped now, so waiting to the summer really just means we'd have trouble taking in a S&T, any other trade is actually easier in the summer as they can blow past the apron.
I don't really get the idea that the only trade to make in the summer would be a S&T.
Fair distinction - and to clarify, a Barnes acquisition has value. However, after several other posters, such as radsox, made a well supported argument about what sort of impact Barnes is likely to have (about average production) and it seemed like we had a consensus, we are now seeing posts that he makes the C's an outside contender with injuries to the other title teams. That certainly can happen but it should not be the base case outcome and my argument is that they are, at present, an outside contender using the same consideration.
Part of our problem this year isn’t finding another “above average” player to pair with Tatum and Brown......it is finding a player who is an upgrade over our current “below league average” at the position. Stability when you are top heavy is crucial.
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Charlotte was about the money after Indy reneged on their agreement with him. He clearly wanted to leave and play for his hometown fans, unfortunately the GM decided that Gordo wasn’t worth a guy that he didn’t want to begin with (Oladipo).
It’s about both, if they reset the luxury tax this year they have three years before they have to worry about it again. There are still hard cap issues over the summer, but a lot of ways of moving salary if the right player is there.
99&% sure it said something about Celts offering multiple 1st round picks for Jerami Grant.
View: https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1370110548889759744?s=20
@adamMKaufman - Deleted the tweet about the #Celtics reported pursuit of Jerami Grant because, after seeing video of the conversation, there really wasn't a report at all. The C's may be interested, but it's unclear if there's actually been any offer made to the #Pistons.
Is there really all that much difference between Grant and Barnes? Grant a better defender but Barnes a better shooter. RAPTOR likes Barnes better by a bit. Salaries are basically the same for the next 2.5 years.
Seems like the cost to acquire Grant will be substantially more though
Seems like the cost to acquire Grant will be substantially more though
They seem extremely similar except with Grant there is a much much higher probability he would be deeply unsatisfied about his role and being moved shortly after signing.
Yeah, I don't see the fit for Grant at all. He could've resigned on a Denver team that's about as good as the C's for the same money, but preferred being the lead guy and getting shots for a losing team. To each their own on that decision, but I'm not seeing why he'd change his mind in less than a season.
He's been quite upfront about his reasoning, and it was not "to get more shots up", but it was something that makes BOS a bad fit.
Unless Grant has expressed to his agent that Boston would be one of his preferred destinations, I don't see why Danny should do anything more than just kick the tires. You don't throw away your few assets just to pick up a player that likely would be very unhappy here.
Yeah, I don't get it, unless we don't know something. He was thoughtful and intentional in seeking out his new team this past offseason. I'd love him as a player here, but I imagine he might harbor some resentment if Danny completely ignored his express wishes and traded for him, and that'd have the potential to blow up be a really bad look.
For reference: https://theathletic.com/2297656/2021/01/06/jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-denver-nuggets-nba-basketball-free-agent/
For reference: https://theathletic.com/2297656/2021/01/06/jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-denver-nuggets-nba-basketball-free-agent/
Jerami is a pretty chilled/good dude (been following him since his Cuse days). If he was upset it would be with Troy Weaver, who made promises to him. Danny Ainge wanting him and paying many assets for his talents would elevate his standing in the league (and be flattering).
Most of the time Grant came off the bench for Denver and averaged under 27mpg. He'd start here and get at least 30mpg. So they are not equivalent situations.
Grant expressed some very specific reasons for wanting to play for the Pistons, reasons that would not apply to the situation in Boston. While I don't think he would necessarily be upset at Ainge, he may not really want to be in Boston for the rest of his contract either, based on his comments when he signed with Detroit. The last thing this team needs is a key rotation player not really wanting to be here.
It seems like it's something that could be found out in advance with a bit of due diligence on Ainge's part. But it would be foolish to trade for Grant without doing that due diligence first.
Danny would check with his agent
BUT before that even happened, Troy would check with Grant
No way I’m giving up a even a protected #1 to exchange TT for Plumlee while adding a shooter who wouldn’t play that much in the playoffs.
Mason Plumlee?? I'm sorry, but that is a dumb move and makes no sense. I also have an irrational hate for that dude, so perhaps I am missing something
With all of these pieces about bigs, you'd think that none of these writers have watched an NBA game in 5 years.
you are not missing anything, no chance that deal is even considered for more than a second.
Give up a 1st (while the Celtics are having a less than thrilling regular season in a deep draft) for an extra year of a 33yr old Mason Plumlee
At least it's better than this rumor about using the TPE to acquire Lamarus Aldridge...
https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-trade-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-kyle-lowry-ricky-rubio/
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Ha, yup. The analysis of many of these writers is effectively matching salaries to the TPE without thinking about why we would actually do that. If Ainge wanted a big with the TPE, he would have just taken Turner.
People are obsessed with getting Boston a center. I actually could see the San Antonio deal if the Spurs are including draft picks for saving them millions of dollars. But that’s about it.
I actually kind of like of Plumlee's fit offensively. He's always been a good passer. I could see him facilitating the offense at the elbows, but no way in hell are you giving up a first for him on that contract.you are not missing anything, no chance that deal is even considered for more than a second.
Give up a 1st (while the Celtics are having a less than thrilling regular season in a deep draft) for an extra year of a 33yr old Mason Plumlee
Duncan and Co put part 1 of their mock trade deadline pod. They had the Celtics acquiring Barnes in exchange for Thompson and this year's 1st (top 22 protected) and 2023 1st, top 4 protected.
I can't see Thompson going anywhere unless another big is coming back. I am not a huge Thompson fan, but he is the only one who has a semblance of a chance at slowing down Embiid.
Maybe expand the deal to include Richaun Holmes?
I don’t see as much absurdity to this swap as others either even though I’m not a fan of either player, especially Ellington. The “heavily protected 1st” carries little value in the mid to high 20’s and Ainge swaps a couple seats on the deck which I’ve said I expect him to be doing on deadline day. Like it or not, these are likely the type of deals Ainge will be looking at without much trade capital to move.
The Aldridge TPE “rumor” is just ridiculous. I’d be happy to see Aldridge as a buyout, and ship out Theis or Thompson for some asset. But, if the big payoff of the TPE was Aldridge - yuck! Unless the Spurs included some draft pick or picks