No.
But allowing just 48 in 3 weeks (while holding a team that has scored 106 points in their two non-Pats games to just 24) is gonna cut it.
The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread
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But allowing just 48 in 3 weeks (while holding a team that has scored 106 points in their two non-Pats games to just 24) is gonna cut it.
Thought Mac had a really fine start and then a pretty ugly end. However, there were no egregiously dangerous/bad throws or turnovers, which is really key against the Jets, so all in all a decent game. Still not exercising that 5th year option, though, and next year’s QB class is stacked af…
Might have looked different today too if he got a few P/I calls. But all in all he's exceedingly mediocre.
Yeah, but the game should have been over by halftime, let alone by the middle of the 4th. Opportunities were there and missed by the entire offense and Joe Cardona.
Kind of. I don't think the game script called for the Jets having the ball down needing a TD to win it three times at the end there. But I put that way more on conservative play calling than on Mac, who was, as he is almost every week, fine.
Managing a game vs the Jets is one thing, but being a game manager in most games won’t result in a win.
May have had something to do with two OL being out then, too. But what do I know. I thought Mac had a decent game given everything
First possession of the 2nd half, he was 2-3 for 13 yards, Pats got a field goal to go up 10.
2nd possession: He was 2-2 for 7 yards, but terrible penalty on JuJu and 2 false starts ended the drive
3rd possession: He was 1-3 for 16 yards (the sideline throw to Parker on third and 15)
4th: They ran 6 times, Mac got stuffed on the sneak, punt
5th: 2-3 for 20 yards, the completion to Bourne where he turned it upfield
6th: 0-1 on the incompletion on third down to JuJu
7th: 3 runs
So they had him throw only 12 times in the 2nd half (he was 8/17 in the first half) and he completed 7 of them. Couple bad throws (or maybe bad routes from JuJu, who knows), but mostly did what was asked of him.
I mean, he just got over the minimum threshold needed to beat an opponent whose QB was wildly overmatched. Yes that is better than making mistakes to give the game away, but it's what you ask of backups and Bad QBs not what you want from long term starters
They had three possessions to put the game away for good. And they got 1 first down. Not good Keough
I'll bet Trevor Lawrence and Lamar Jackson wish they could say the same this week.
The coaching staff knew the opposition QB was overmatched and played accordingly. Weather was bad. Now, not trying to run it up may show a lack of confidence Pats coaches have in Mac because BB will take every opportunity to run it up against Gang Green.
"They", or "he"? If you don't think Jones is a top 10 QB, for instance, what specific plays do you think a better QB makes? He wasn't close to perfect, I would be surprised if he ends up a top 5 QB at the end of the year, but watching today I thought he played pretty well and I'd be surprised if he ends up as a bottom 10 QB, too. If he plays himself into the 5-10 range on a consistent basis, that's hugely valuable even if he doesn't end up close to Brady territory.
Alex Smith had started to turn his career around before Andy Reid got him. The 49ers got to the NFC championship game with Smith and Smith was having another fine season until he got replaced due to injury with Kapernick
If Mac Jones is a top 5-10 QB with this cast of characters around him, they should sign him long term right now.
I'll be content with a top 15 season from him this year with this skill position group and offensive line. Add that to this defense, and the Pats could be frisky. They'll be in just about every game with a chance to win.
The Pats are going to be a total PITA to play against. When you play them you know you're going up against a great game coach, you're going to have to deal with an elite defense, and they have just enough on offense that you can't fall asleep on them either. By the way, the Pats' D has done so well this year without generating much by way of turnovers (just 2 in 3 games).
And Jone's limitations will not be enough to win the 2-3 games they need to make some noise. With him, they are in 7-8 win purgatory.
Not sure why stupid hypotheticals that aren't possible, and have nothing to do with this week are relevant to the conversation.
That said, I wouldn't trade Mac straight up for Lamar and that contact.
He literally can't throw the ball in cold or bad weather and has a shelf life in this league that will last as long as his legs do. He's a constant injury waiting to happen.
Of course, the great Trevor Lawrence has a career record now of 13-24 and a career passer rating 0f 83.4 with 39tds and 26picks, but folks will give him the benefit of having shitty players around him, but ignore it when it comes to Mac Jones. But that boy Trevor, he has velocity and can make all the throws. It doesn't matter if they actually connect.
I think Mac has looked pretty damn good this year, especially given the shitty weapons and banged up/shitty OL. Cole Strange is an absolute abomination of a draft pick - even if he had been Logan Mankins 2.0 it would've been a bad use of a first rounder. Because we didn't have the luxury of drafting a GUARD with all the holes in this roster (then and now) like we did when that Brady guy was under center. A truly ludicrous pick. NOT. HELPING.
People give Lawrence the benefit of the doubt because he was handed to Urban Fucking Meyer to begin his career, immediately improved once he got away from an incompetent head coach, and he's actually won a playoff game by mounting an incredible comeback. There's absolutely no question Lawrence is the better QB.
Trevor Lawrence is >10 under 500 in his career. If he is so good, shouldn't he be elevating his team up around him like we are asking Mac (career .500) to do?
Why are we doing QB records for guys 35 games into their careers? Give Trevor Lawrence the Patriots defense and Bill Belichick, what's his record? Come on, now. Especially considering Lawrence is .500 since the start of last year, are we really going to put the 2021 Jaguars on him?
I don't know. We can only look at what has happened. Someone wise once said "You are what your record says you are"
And Mac made the playoffs as a rookie. I just double checked,, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing defense when the Pats forced a grant total of zero punts that day.
If Lawrence gets the benefit of the doubt for Urban Meyer, what are we saying about Mac's second season being absolutely fucking destroyed by Matt Patricia and an offensive coaching staff that had trouble even getting plays into him on time.
I think Lawrence is the better QB, but my point is that people are so quick to excuse his record and statistics (both of which are dramatically worse than Mac's) for the same reasons folks are willing to give Mac the benefit of the doubt. Given what I've seen from Lawrence, I'm not sure I'd be excited to hand him a quarter billion in guaranteed money next season.
The two situations aren’t comparable. I’m sure Mac’s development suffered last year for want of coaching, but that’s a lot different than the entire team being a tire fire, to the point where Lawrence felt compelled — as a rookie — to cross his head coach publicly. There were still good coaches on last year’s Patriots, and a non-toxic culture; I’m sure Mac developed some, even if it wasn’t what it should have been.
Lawrence has moments, and even extended stretches of play, where the game slows down and he looks like the elite QB he was expected to be. Whether he becomes that guy depends on whether he develops consistency; the jury is still out on that.
Jones was supposed to have a high floor and come in and contribute immediately, but I don’t think many people thought he’d become more than a game manager. To my eyes, he’s been exactly what we expected. The lost development in year 2 ironically hurts more because of Mac’s limited upside — it’s not like he’s going to be the Pats’ franchise QB 6-7 years from now, the way Lawrence might be in Jacksonville.
I mean, also... the Patriots had way more talent around Mac (both sides of the ball) than JAX. New England was a pretty good team before Mac, the defense is good, the offense is more mediocre than bad. Jacksonville was a TERRIBLE roster. Last year's team making the playoffs was a really impressive overachievement. They took a bunch of other teams' 3rd WRs and made a top 10 offense out of it.
Good point. The Jags were like $100m under the cap entering the 2021-22 off-season, and they didn’t make any big splashes besides Christian Kirk, so last year’s team looked a lot different personnel-wise than the Urban Meyer Experiment. The coaching change obviously mattered a lot, as did Lawrence not being a rookie, but it fundamentally wasn’t the same group of players from one year to the next.
Wait, what? Did you WATCH the OL last year? And "talent" includes coaching, imo.
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Go look at the Jags in Lawrence's rookie year, it is ugly, and the coaching was.... woof.
Yes. Very, very bad. But you chose to use "way more", and unless you really care about the difference between how much worse a tire fire smells if there's also dog shit in it, I disagree. They were both bad situations.
In the context of the in context analysis: Did the play calling change in the second half? That could be a bad sign if it means that the coaching staff doesn’t trust Mac and therefore plays not to lose. Of course, not trusting the offense not to fuck up strikes me as pretty reaaonable, and they needed this win.
Anyway, seemed like there was a change, but remembering all the play sequences isn’t my strong suit. Thoughts?
Anyway, seemed like there was a change, but remembering all the play sequences isn’t my strong suit. Thoughts?
My real-time read was that BB didn't think there was any way at all the NYJ could score points unless we gifted them. So yeah, very conservative. Also, the weather was a shitshow.
Am I wrong? We have been spoiled. I can't say that enough. I can't believe the 20 year run. But I will criticize the current team because they are not good. I will watch but it is OK to say Mac isn't it.
OK? I was responding to Rev's question. If you wanna spaz around bitching about Mac Jones (who may in fact suck), please reply to someone who actually says our offense is OK (hint: there are no posters on SoSH saying our offense is OK. None.).
That’s fine. Just remember: They also almost lost the Butler Super Bowl.
Some years ago, FootballOutsiders did a really interesting and complicated statistical analysis of years of football and found that the best predictor (probablistic, not determinative, obviously) of team quality in a W-L sense was not beating quality opponents but beating the crap out of shitty opponents. (Though I guess if yoi take a shitty team and beat the crap out of them, all that’s left is… I digress.) Like, the nature of the game is such that with relatively closely matched teams, weirdness can affect the outcome a great degree, so they generally even out in the wash. But when your team is a lot better than than the other? It should be a thrashing.
Basically, the game is designed to have a faie amount of randomness and insanity. I mean, look at the shape of the fucking “ball,” yeah” So playing teams, especially quality teams tight is actually a prettt good sign you’re not terrible. It doesn’t mean you’re good, but it matters. And most of the other fan bases kinda understand this—ask around—the Pats were just fucking statistically incoherent for awhile is all. I’m not into the whole claiming we’re a spoiler fanbase crap, but I am fascinated that even the more statistically and scientifically inclined can’t figure it out.
Anyway, I’m going to go mourn the near loss if the Butler Super Bowl. Maybe I’ll light a candle or somethintg.
Heh. Right back atcha from the other day: 100% It’s a bit weird and maybe frustrating at times when there’s a conflation between being an apologist for the team and just trying to figure out what we have and how this all works, yeah?
I am going to guess the "B" word.
But your point stands that the greatest ever would have lost on a last-second play if not for a defensive stop in an all-time classic game.
the word is “spaz.” Was in the news awhile ago for some song lyrics.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/rcna33747
Shit they almost lost all 6 of the Super Bowls they won.
Statistically incoherent is a fantastic term and effectively summarizes so many things in life. I think the Eagles and the Dolphins are pretty good so the Patriots playing them tight is a generally good sign. I didn’t catch much of the game today but my general impression is the Jets are a shit team. The Patriots did not beat the shit out of the Jets today which based on the FootballOutsiders analysis indicates that the Patriots are just meh which is probably a surprise to no one.
Anyway I can’t remember what the argument was but I think it had something to do with Mac not being Tom Brady which is almost certainly statistically coherent.