Thank you- I missed that, and should have been more aware. Mea maxima culpa.
The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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I think it was a different word, based on the edit in his post.
The greatest of all time was also strip sacked while down 5 and a little over 2 minutes to go in a SB in which he threw for over 500 yards.
Shit happens. There was also a shit ton of games that Tom Brady won with scores like 15-10 during his career too.
Wins are wins, and they're all good, especially on the road in the NFL. If it were so easy, you wouldn't see every Survivor pool decimated by week 3 every year.
Just to clean up the thread-- we got the word issue sorted out. I own the missing of the word.
Can you imagine the goat thread if Jones were strip sacked down 17-15?
Could you imagine if he threw 3 picks, lost a fumble and the Pats lost to a Zach Wilson led team by a score of 22-16?
Like Josh Allen did two weeks ago.
And this is right on point with the FootballOutsiders analysis, right? Literally nobody questions that the Patriots for a long stretch of time were the greatest team ever. Or that Brady is the greatest winner among QBs ever. But the Super Bowls, which are definitionally played against high quality teams, were generally close. That’s the game.
Not to belabor the point, but that FO piece has really stuck with me and, I think, improved how I understand this stuff.
Seriously why are people just acting as if the NYJ D should be a cakewalk. They are a top 5 D who singlehandedly beat BUF. Mac tied an NFL record for most completions through first 2 games going into yesterday and people are expecting him to have completed even more all while throwing to a bunch of other teams former 3rd and 4th passing options behind a patchwork OL.
I was really frustrated yesterday with the playcalling. The excessive use of draws and screens just isn't working and was very similar to what was done last year. Part of it was that the Pats didn't respect the Jets ability to move the ball at all, so they were ultra-conservative in what was probably the right strategy but just incredibly dull and uninspiring to watch. I feel like when the Pats speed things up, spread out the offense and let Mac throw the ball, the offense is way more dynamic and exciting, but they either don't trust Mac enough to put him in that role or they don't trust the offensive line to hold up their end of the bargain.
I'd still like to see them at least TRY, the settling for long field goal attempts was bizarre.
I'd still like to see them at least TRY, the settling for long field goal attempts was bizarre.
You're right. I can only surmise that the conditions caused it. They moved the ball in week 2 going spread and no-huddle, but yesterday was much more conservative.
If that was against the backdrop of Allen's body of work I'd take it! Mac has essentially never imposed his will on a game. We do this every week. He has flashes but serious limitations. All three games this year he's had a chance to "win" it with a big/timely play and come up short. Yes it's due to many factors each time, but the top guys all get it done. Maybe he's able to build on this week. I'm dubious.
This. I missed most of the game because I had business in NYC yesterday, which like Philly was wet, cold, windy, and miserable. If the Pats packed it in on offense yesterday that was the right call, because when conditions are sloppy and you're playing a team with a great defense and an inept offense, the best move is always going to be to minimize the chances of letting their defense win the game through defensive scores and turnovers that lead to short fields that allow even their terrible offense to score.
Mac gets another chance to prove himself this week. Let's see if he can show he's as good as Joshua Dobbs.
Are we going to talk about the alleged Draymond that Mac pulled on Sauce? I really hope Mac isn't firing nut shots in the middle of scrums.
It seems like this is becoming a common occurence with Mac.
Link to story
It seems like this is becoming a common occurence with Mac.
Link to story
Well watching the video again, Mac is fighting for yards and the Jets very much rough him up, well after the whistle. Then he gets up from the scrum and seems to engage Sauce a little (which is when the alleged nut shot occurred), and. then Sauce shoves Mac to the ground, and no flag. If he gave the nut shot, that's very bad, but a little more understandable given how the Jets roughed him up well after the whistle.
PFR says 14 mph winds, which is quite significant - maybe a 1 ANY/A drop or so. Probably worse for a QB with less-then-average velocity.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202309240nyj.htm
In this thread Mac gets gauged on pretty much each incompletion including those where egregious DPIs weren't called so why not? Given the context of his WR corps and OL I think it is at least noteworthy.
It wasn't the first time Mac has kept going on a sneak way, way after the whistle, and it wasn't the first accusation of dirty play from him. Between that nonsense and him laying facedown for a solid second after getting knocked down to try to look dead and draw bogus penalties, he has some habits that I would really love him to knock the hell off.
I posted this in the game thread:
Cool point from Romo about having the most completions over the first two games isn’t necessarily a sign of good things, especially since he used to hold the record.
Interesting that he associates it with the QB having to get the ball off quickly because he’s under pressure; it seems Romo subscribes to the @Deathofthebambino Theorem.
I've been critical of Mac in the past and even some this year but overall I have seen growth over these first 3 games. Playing against elite defenses, receivers who still can't generate separation. Yesterday the call was for game management and like Death stated that isn't always simple.
Yeah standard short yardage scrap and the nut shot is probably pure BS. Anyone who has ever gotten hit in the nuts knows that your immediate reaction isn't to retaliate....it's to go down in a heap of pain.
did anyone judge Mac for the throw where they missed the obvious dpi?
I don't think the sheer volume of completions means much other than that they threw the ball a lot the first week and also throw lots of short stuff.
What exactly is a "bogus penalty?" Is that one that draws a flag but the ref seems it "bogus" and picks it up? What the PI in the end zone bogus or did the Jets receiver do a good job of selling it?
It's 2023, selling calls is a part of the game in sports. The reality is if you aren't, your opponent is and that doesn't benefit you.
Yeah, Mac may not have the best reputation with these types of plays. But looking at that video again and watching live during the game. At least two Jets' players (one being Sauce) should have been flagged for unnecessary roughness on that play. I believe 100% if they did that exact same thing to Mahomes, there would have 100% been a flag.
When you literally cannot run the ball, as the Pats couldn't in the first two weeks, you have to throw the ball a lot, and throw it short because your line can't hold up. You have to take what the defense gives, and the defenses were getting pressure with 3 or 4 guys up front, putting 7-8 guys in coverage. The underneath quick stuff is all that's there.
This week, they ran the ball well, and all of a sudden, they were taking more shorts down the field. People were complaining about Mac's Y/A the last two weeks (5.85 and 5.50), but interestingly, nobody is saying anything about it today when it was 6.93 yesterday.
His air yards per pass attempt went from 7.2 to 8.9 to 10.2 in the three games. His average air yards per completion went from 3.6 to 4.2 to 8.3 yesterday. And his yards per completion went from 9.0 to 7.45 to 13.4.
This stuff is completely game plan and defensive specific, so when folks want to poo poo his total completions because they don't for big yardage, they better fucking come back into these threads and note when the numbers go the other way.
Narrator: They won't though, and frankly, I'm ok with it, because reliance on these stats when it comes to 11 guys on the field in football is a fucking fool's errand. Context matters, game plans matter, opponents matter, offensive lines matter, receivers matter and most times, numbers don't reflect the reality of it. Kirk Cousins currently leads the NFL in completions/attempts, yards (1,075), touchdown passes (9), and has a quarterback rating of 108.2. The Vikings are 0-3, mostly in large part because he lost a fumble on a snap at the 2 yard line against TB, fumbled inside his own 20 (strip sack) against TB, threw a pick in the red zone against Tampa Bay (they lost to TB 20-17). He was strip sacked and fumbled inside his own 10 against Philly, who scored a td on the ensuing drive (Minnesota lost the game by 6). Yesterday, down by 4, first and goal from the 6, 15 seconds left, and Kirk Cousins threw a pick in the end zone to end the game, Vikings lose by 4.
Kirk Cousins statistically is on pace to break or come close to breaking a lot of passing records. He's also on pace to tie the record for least amount of wins.
Not trying to excuse Mac here, but what do you think happens in a scrum during a fumble recovery? The bottom of the pile is very ugly, and yes, grabbing of the nuts is not uncommon. From what I have read/heard, anyway.
It doesnt look like it was in the scrum.
View: https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1706052650402246912?s=20
PFT is reporting the NFL is looking into it.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-is-looking-into-sauce-gardners-claim-that-mac-jones-hit-him-in-the-private-parts
View: https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1706052650402246912?s=20
PFT is reporting the NFL is looking into it.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-is-looking-into-sauce-gardners-claim-that-mac-jones-hit-him-in-the-private-parts
Mac Jones is the anti-Brady in every way. I have no idea how anyone that rooted for Brady for 20 years could talk themselves into this guy. Not only can't he play QB all the well in the NFL, but he's a whiney, entitled ass and continues to do selfish and dirty things.
We went from living in a mansion for 20 years to being foreclosed on and living in a tent on the side of the highway.
We went from living in a mansion for 20 years to being foreclosed on and living in a tent on the side of the highway.
I think if this ran longer it was where I thought Sauce was hurt and he was going to get pulled but he waved it off. Cant see anything but weird reaction by #1 if nothing
The only place it could have happened is around the 13-14 second mark of that video, and it sure looks to me like Mac is trying to get away from the pile (after being suplexed) and was likely just pushing his way between Sauce and the ref. There's no angle of him hitting Sauce there, but it would have happened extremely quickly and in the heat of the moment.
I'll reserve judgment on intent until I see something more from another angle.
How halfhearted the oline defended Mac isn’t great to me. CJ almost power bombed him and Pats guys were like, “we get it but we have to defend him”.
Yes plenty of complaints that the pass was underthrown which it probably was a tick underthrown but that far downfield I'd rather have it underthrown and give the WR a chance to either draw DPI or make a back shoulder catch than overthrown and have no chance at either.
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Anyone calling this pass underthrow has lost their mind. It hit Douglas on his outside shoulder.
Frankly, if Pop doesn't turn for the ball and keeps running, it's a dime over his shoulder, and the DPI might have been irrelevant:
View: https://twitter.com/michaelFhurley/status/1706012217219412112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1706012217219412112%7Ctwgr%5E809d55c79ce69fdc878535134d417560f08ed2f9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmusketfire.com%2Fposts%2Fhorrifically-bad-officiating-adds-to-the-patriots-woes-in-win-over-ny-jets-01hb4dy0qy53
I can only comment about what I see on tape. You would know Pats narratives better than I would.
I think it's more of a statement on Bill's coaching style. He, and everyone else knows, that the 2nd guy gets the penalty. If an Offensive Lineman comes over there and blows up a Jet, they're getting 15 yards and benched.
Probably, if that was Jensen from Bucs last year and that happened to Tommy he would have pulled a knife on somebody
Kind of hard to tell from Sauce's video. Mac gets up after being thrown down and bumps Sauce. Right arm is low, maybe a cup check but looked more like a bump than anything else. It's not like he wound up and whacked Sauce.
Mac does stupid stuff though so who knows.
Mac does stupid stuff though so who knows.
I think Sauce is telling the truth here. In high school guys would commonly just quickly jab each other in the nuts. The goal isn't to prevent them from having kids it was just a few seconds of pain. Sauce quickly tossed Mac in front of the ref. I don't think he does that without provocation. He was reacting to something - likely Mac jabbing him in the balls.
Or Mac just pushing him out of the way, and catching him in the balls.
Either way, Sauce's whole "I need to ice it," and "he's trying to stop me from having kids" statements seem more than a little over the top. It's football folks, it's not tennis.
Do these guys not wear cups? If you have a cup on Mac probably just hurts his knuckle.
Also even if Mac did it and he is dirty, AF that is a 15 yard penalty 99 times out of a 100 in this league.
Someone has never been hit square in the testicles with an overhead by a 6'3 german...
When I learned football players do NOT wear cups a couple years back I was astounded (but I never played).
But, no they don't.
Meant to quote this one on my last post as well. I havent talked myself into Mac whatsoever, I just haven't talked myself out of him (yet) the way many have seemed to. I dont watch all the other TV games straight through, but I watch enough and I see faster/better players who seem to get more open and do more after a catch. I dont think Mac is ever going to be a guy who elevates his teammates, but as Ive said before I just dont think the rest of the team (o line, weapons, etc) are helping him reach anywhere close to his ceiling. Im seeing fanduel superbowl odds of Dolphins at +1000 and pats at +8,000. If Mac and Tua were traded straight up, those odds might not look the exact same but Im pretty confident in saying the Dolphins are still leads and bounds ahead of the Patriots. TLDR: I dont think either is anywhere close to the Mahomes or Allens of the world. But one has elite/dynamic playmakers and a very offensive minded coach, the other, well...doesnt.
edit: even simpler - I think our convos would be extremely similar with 2/3 or so of QBs in the league right now, and that to me is more of a reflection of what's around the qb than the qb himself.