I actually thought the years would be a bigger problem than the money, so if they're starting off at 6 years I think they could build on that initial offer. I'm reasonably optimistic.
The premature re-signing Lester thread
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Yeah, there's that. It's a gamble on their part that nobody else wants to walk through the now-wide-open door labeled 6/$132. I hope their spies in Yankeedom have good information.Kramerica Industries said:
On the plus side, Toronto offering that probably doesn't get it done, starting with the tax system which lops off the difference (or some portion of it). They're probably correct about the Barves not going that high. St. Louis, who knows? But if the chatter is to believed, the Sox are short $10mil of what the market should yield, and if Lester views it that way, he may not give them another chance.
Much of it comes down to how the offer is presented--last/ best or the start of a negotiation. If it's a last/ best I'm a bit bearish but otherwise that sounds better than a "well we tried" offer.
There should be none of this starting offer crap. Stop trying to be so cute...Should have offered 6/130 at the very least.
He asked for $17.5 million AAV in the spring. This offer is almost $20 million over 6 years. It's probably close enough in years and money that they can get this done if Jon's desire is to be in Boston. If he wants something crazy like 7/160 then no this is not going to hold any water.
Friedman and Cashman have probably called twice since they saw those numbers.
Note: Below Hamels' AAV?? Why do they continue to screw around with him?
Note: Below Hamels' AAV?? Why do they continue to screw around with him?
Maybe it does...what is more important comfort or money? I think they told him to shop it around and come back and allow them to match whatever offer he gets if he isn't satisfied.E5 Yaz said:
You posted it before I could articulate my thoughts, but this is exactly my line of thinking. Unless someone blows him out of the water, I feel optimistic.Papelbon's Poutine said:
Maybe it includes a no-trade, or a promise of a coaching position, or a vesting option for a 7th year with a buyout. What we have is a source who may not have seen the paperwork giving a range of possible values.
Well, if the rumors about Scherzer seeking 7 years with an AAV of $27M are true - and if the Yankees pony that up...Mr. Lester has a lot of money/years on the table.
Tyrone Biggums said:
The MLBPA isn't letting him take less money. He's going to the highest bidder, and that'll be more than $120m.
The "comfort discount" ship sailed. The only hope is that we are planning on beating the highest bidder, within reason, down the road.Tyrone Biggums said:
Doc Zero said:
I get that; but -- and who really knows them -- I think they are different people, and in Tex's case, he was dealing with 2 new places trying to impress him. For better or worse, Lester already knows Boston (city, team, FO, Mgr. fans, real estate, etc.), and seemed to like it well enough. It may have been PR BS, but as I recall there was a big deal made of how all the Yankee wives told Mrs. T how great the NY suburbs were, etc. (or it *was* just the money)
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
Good thing the Red Sox can make other bids, then. Or that we don't actually know for certain what their initial bid was.
My first thought was: He's gone.
My second thought was: If they're willing to offer that, maybe they're willing to go 7/140.
The more I think about it the more I think it gets ugly. The price will keep going up and up and the Sox will bow out.
My second thought was: If they're willing to offer that, maybe they're willing to go 7/140.
The more I think about it the more I think it gets ugly. The price will keep going up and up and the Sox will bow out.
Remember that Cafardo's report says he may have been offered as low as 6/110. 20m isn't negligible.Papelbon's Poutine said:
rodderick said:
True; I was just responding to comments around comfort, etc. I think the "comfort" thing only applies if the top offers are nearly equal. Outside of that, this is an auction, and he's going where the money is. Main question is if the Sox will be willing to match the top offer. What the initial salvo suggests is that they're at least ready to play, which is progress.
I don't see the MLBPA swaying this. Certainly they would not let a player take less money on an existing contract....but Lester is an unrestricted FA. By all means he could (not saying he would) take a lesser offer if it made him happy, I think the MLBPA could care less about that.Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
IF Lester were to take less to sign here, I doubt the delta would be large.
CaskNFappin said:
It isn't negligible, but it's also "only" 3 million more per season, at most. The thing is, at what point do you become uncomfortable with the contract? 6/150? 7/170? There has to be a line they won't cross, but if their initial offer was 6/11(2)0, 6/130 likely won't be it.
From whom?Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
Cubs heard the offer and immediately said "Guess he is going to Boston"
Lester is fishing for a better offer right now. Braves aren't going to match that.
Hey, not suggesting it isn't true, but I've heard you mention this twice and haven't seen that anywhere--what was the story there?TomRicardo said:
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Sure; it's not like they've tried to pressure a player to take the most money before, is it?
soxhop411 said:
If true, this sets the bar at (a) 7 year contract and/or (b) $2-3mm more per year (for a six-year contract) for Theo. Cannot see TOR, ATL or STL in the running.
when I was in Phoenix, Edes said to me that the "sox are willing to set the market on Lester" after he spoke with Cherington. I think this is clearly a favor to Lester to let him go shop that offer around with the Sox knowing full well someone will go over it. And if wants to accept it, great. But now way he's leaving $20M or more on the table.
I hope I'm wrong.
I hope I'm wrong.
For what it's worth the same guy who tipped me off on the Fernandez TJ surgery also mentioned that the Marlins are in on Lester too. They want to add a veteran arm to show Stanton they're serious about competing. Hence is why the contract is heavily back loaded besides of course the fact Loria loves to trade players that sign there after 2-3 years.
That being said I don't think they're a huge threat and Lester comes back home for 6 years plus an option
That being said I don't think they're a huge threat and Lester comes back home for 6 years plus an option
Could be true. He told me this last week so maybe it isn't but I have to figure that taking less money up front has to give this at least some merit.Doc Zero said:
Fernandez might not pitch in the rotation next year. I know they're going to sign someone pretty good at the top of the rotation. But as I said I'm hoping Lester comes back and I expect it.
That's interesting. Well, however they can generate good will seems like a wise move.Clears Cleaver said:
That was before this report came out. Cubs fans are pretty excited right now, actually. They think Theo will be willing to beat this offer, or at least drive up the price of the negotiations.TomRicardo said:
They just expected the Sox's offer to be higher after it was reported as "aggressive." They think they have the money.E5 Yaz said:
Most of them thought that the Sox were going to get Lester. They see it as an initial offer in the race to sign him - not just driving up the price. From what I've read on their boards, they've been expecting at least a 6/140-150 contract the whole time, so they don't see this as driving up the price too much.Doc Zero said:
Check out: http://www.bleachernation.com/2014/11/19/obsessive-jon-lester-watch-red-sox-offer-was-aggressive-dempster-discusses-cubs/ if you want to see what I'm talking about.
Haha btw, they think SOSH doesn't have enough Alison Brie gifs.
TomRicardo said:
The exact quote was a lot soupier than this. "I get the feeling the Cubs think he's going back to Boston." "I get the feeling" suggests that this isn't anything he heard directly from anybody in the Cubs FO, but more something he's inferring from the tenor of the things they are saying. Which is....not very definitive, to put it mildly.
What I heard is that they are interested in Shields. They're hoping they can bring him in on a 4 year contract at around $68 - 72million using the Florida state tax benefits to keep it under $20million a year.Tyrone Biggums said:
Ahh, ok, I read that too. It never meant the Cubs were out and it was a report from before the actual offer.TomRicardo said:
Agreed, no starting offer. Make an offer and move along. That said, 6/130 is (imho) a bit high.CaskNFappin said:
Agree to disagreeE5 Yaz said:
Exactly. I don't think Lester will go elsewhere for such a "small" amount of additional money. 6/120 is a very fair offer and although I don't consider it a starting offer, I'd be okay with them increasing it slightly if that's what it takes.Papelbon's Poutine said:
Non-factorSnoop Soxy Dogg said:
True and yet he still did what he wanted. If Lester wants to come back to Boston (and I think he does), he'll take whatever he feels is a fair offer for both sides. He may look at this from a Tom Brady point of view (even though there's no salary cap in MLB, there are limits to what anyone is willing to spend) and appreciate them taking some of the "extra" money he could've had and spend it on players who will help him get more rings.E5 Yaz said:
This is not true. Having spoken to a current MLB player (who was also the team union rep), the union wants you to take the highest bid but it's up to the player to make the decision that is best for him. "isn't letting him" is not true at all.Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
It's probably pretty simple--they inundate them with the perspective of thinking of the whole union and one's peers when considering offers, and there's a culture in the game where that's important to a vast majority. Beyond that, what can they actually do? What evidence is there that they've ever "done" anything?
It's probably not a good sign for the Lester-back-to-Boston wagon if we're sitting here debating the amount of influence the players' union has over its members' decisions in free agency.
JohntheBaptist said:
The closest and only instance I can think of is blocking the A-Rod trade/renegotiation, but that's an entirely different animal. I don't recall any instance of the MLBPA forcing a player to go to another team because they're willing to pay the most, and I really doubt it would ever happen.
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