What does 2023 look like?

doctorogres

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I know he is projected to be an elite CF. However, quoting directly from Sox Prospects "(Rafaela) Has shown the potential to be a plus defender all around the diamond" and "Could be a plus defender at every position except catcher and first base." I always thought Andrews, Hatfield and those guys were the gold standard as far as information on players in the system but maybe they've fallen off and I am not aware. I'm going off the assumption that those guys are a heck of a lot smarter than I am, so I use their information. But maybe there is a better site to use, and if so, I'd be genuinely curious to know.

I think offensively Rafaela would bring more to the table (right now) than any of our current MIs - mostly because they're all unbelievably terrible - and I'm using the above to assume defensively he'd be better than pretty much anyone - because most of them are fine but don't strike me as "plus" defenders. Which isn't really a "dig" on Chang, he looks like pretty good defensive MI to me (which makes him better than anyone else currently in Boston), he was graded as a 45/45 fielder 50/50 arm as a prospect on Fangraphs and to this point has been a slightly above average defender while in Boston and Tampa the past two seasons, which seems about right.

However, reading SP, makes me think Rafaela would be a good bit better than that at SS or 2b, and I'm genuinely asking about what has changed / invalidated their take?
If you listened to their podcast, you'd know that they think Rafaela needs about 400-600 ABs in AAA to work on his approach. He chases a lot and doesn't recognize pitches well. He has the bat speed and hands to be a good hitter but he has a lot of work to do. And yes, I know he's had better results the last couple of weeks.
 

grimshaw

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If you listened to their podcast, you'd know that they think Rafaela needs about 400-600 ABs in AAA to work on his approach. He chases a lot and doesn't recognize pitches well. He has the bat speed and hands to be a good hitter but he has a lot of work to do. And yes, I know he's had better results the last couple of weeks.
I also read that it appears at times like he's taking pitches by guessing on balls, rather than recognizing them as such but he is very aware he needs to work on it.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Thank you both - great insight. Unfortunately, Podcasts are blocked at my work computer which is when / where I do literally all my posting and time spent focused on baseball research from. As someone whom doesn't have time to listen to said podcasts outside of work hours, I appreciate the synopsis greatly.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Just looking at the lineup last night and it’s pretty impressive to see the first 6 in the lineup with an OPS over .800 each…. And the 7th (Casas) right at .750.
Of course Casas has been hitting better and that’s mostly dragged down by an early season ineptitude. The onlyway to do that though is keeping Duvall, Turner, Yoshida all in the lineup the same game which isnt a great defensive lineup
 

RS2004foreever

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The projections for Casas were really accurate:
Zips projection .256/.352/.440 18 Home Runs RC+121
Current: .229/.332/.411 10 Home Runs RC+103

Since May Casas is .270/.353/.466 with an RC+ of 121

Zips was amazingly accurate with respect to Yoshi as well

They were right to stick with him.
 

JM3

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This is probably a better place for this discussion than the game thread...

View: https://twitter.com/SmittyOnMLB/status/1680258647488602113


But it has to be about time to move on.

I guess it's true that only 1 of Kiké's 15 errors this season has come in the last 30 days...

During that time he has 7 starts at SS, 5 at 2B & 3 in CF. In 5 of those games he played multiple positions. He also came in off the bench & played 2B once.

In terms of hitting, during that same time frame, he is 11-58 with 10 singles, 1 double & 1 walk (.190 BA, .203 OBP, .207 SLG, .410 OPS), with 13 strikeouts (22%).

It is time to move on.
 

jteders1

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It's turned a corner in the last couple of weeks and the team has found some consistency. I still don't think they should be buyers at the deadline. Even though they're playing better it's tough to see them jumping the Jays, O's, and Astros for the final wildcard spot. This team is built for next year and 25. As much as I've been disappointed by Bloom with the results for the big league club, he deserves another year to see if they can make that next step.
 

BaseballJones

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After games on June 13, the Sox were 33-35 (.485) and 14 games out of first place.

Since then they've gone 17-9 (.654) and are now 9 games out of first place.

After games on June 29, the Sox were 40-42 (.487) and 15 games out of first place.

Since then they've gone 10-2 (.833) and are now 9 games out of first place.

We know they're not catching Tampa, but it just goes to show how well they've been playing.
 

8slim

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After games on June 13, the Sox were 33-35 (.485) and 14 games out of first place.

Since then they've gone 17-9 (.654) and are now 9 games out of first place.

After games on June 29, the Sox were 40-42 (.487) and 15 games out of first place.

Since then they've gone 10-2 (.833) and are now 9 games out of first place.

We know they're not catching Tampa, but it just goes to show how well they've been playing.
The way things are trending it may be about catching Baltimore.

And I don’t see why it’s unrealistic to think they could nab the third WC over Houston or Toronto. They’re both flawed teams like us. We have less room for error, but far stranger things have happened.
 

jteders1

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The way things are trending it may be about catching Baltimore.

And I don’t see why it’s unrealistic to think they could nab the third WC over Houston or Toronto. They’re both flawed teams like us. We have less room for error, but far stranger things have happened.
I think it's easy to say this right now, while we're on a hot streak. It's unlikely to continue at this pace. In addition, the teams you mention above are veteran teams, whose players have longer track records of producing. We're still playing a bunch of young guys who are likely to experience some valleys over the year. That being said, the talent is as good as it's been in 5 years. Stay the course, wait for your injured players to return, and see if you can stay hot.
 

BaseballJones

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The offense is looking really good right now.

C - Wong: 83 ops+ (not good offensively but he more than makes up for it with his defense)
1b - Casas: 104 ops+ (and an .858 ops since May 3, over the span of 55 games)
2b - Arroyo: 79 ops+ (terrible)
3b - Devers: 124 ops+
SS - Hernandez: 60 ops+ (worse than terrible)
LF - Yoshida: 135 ops+
CF - Duran: 134 ops+
RF - Verdugo: 115 ops+
DH - Turner: 123 ops+ (.934 ops since May 28, with 9 homers and 37 rbi)
OF - Refsnyder: 104 ops+
OF - Duvall: 123 ops+

Now they have three regulars who are poor hitters: Wong, Arroyo, and Kiké. Hernandez has also been terrible defensively. But that will be fixed when Story comes back. Story will take one spot and will improve the SS position dramatically both offensively and defensively.

But up and down the lineup, this team is hitting. And you can live with Wong because he's so elite defensively. You add in Story at SS and Arroyo really becomes the only true weak link.
 

bosockboy

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The offense is looking really good right now.

C - Wong: 83 ops+ (not good offensively but he more than makes up for it with his defense)
1b - Casas: 104 ops+ (and an .858 ops since May 3, over the span of 55 games)
2b - Arroyo: 79 ops+ (terrible)
3b - Devers: 124 ops+
SS - Hernandez: 60 ops+ (worse than terrible)
LF - Yoshida: 135 ops+
CF - Duran: 134 ops+
RF - Verdugo: 115 ops+
DH - Turner: 123 ops+ (.934 ops since May 28, with 9 homers and 37 rbi)
OF - Refsnyder: 104 ops+
OF - Duvall: 123 ops+

Now they have three regulars who are poor hitters: Wong, Arroyo, and Kiké. Hernandez has also been terrible defensively. But that will be fixed when Story comes back. Story will take one spot and will improve the SS position dramatically both offensively and defensively.

But up and down the lineup, this team is hitting. And you can live with Wong because he's so elite defensively. You add in Story at SS and Arroyo really becomes the only true weak link.
Has there been any whisper whatsoever on Mondesi? He’d fix the Arroyo problem. I’m guessing he never suits up for us.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I think it's easy to say this right now, while we're on a hot streak. It's unlikely to continue at this pace. In addition, the teams you mention above are veteran teams, whose players have longer track records of producing. We're still playing a bunch of young guys who are likely to experience some valleys over the year. That being said, the talent is as good as it's been in 5 years. Stay the course, wait for your injured players to return, and see if you can stay hot.
While I certainly get your perspective, especially based on the relative "streakiness" of the team this year, I really do think they should look into "buying" a top half of the rotation starter with term to go along with Bello to anchor the rotation for the 2024+ window.

The Sox really do not have anyone in the organization that projects to be that in the next couple of seasons. Even if Perales has taken a sustainable "leap" and now projects as that top half of the rotation starter (there I'll just take @JM3 word on it since SP hasn't updated their summaries), having not pitched in A+ yet, he's still probably - best case scenario - looking at maybe a 2025 debut.

The farm system has a lot of "up the middle" types (yes, some of them will move out to the corners), but I really do think this would be a good time to monetize some of those assets for the one thing they're really lacking for the 2024+ core, which is another top half of the rotation starter.

Since I really do agree with others whom have stated there is no way we're trading top 10 prospects, the Sox at minimum have to take some of the pieces at the end of the 40 man and get whatever rotation help they can with those pieces, and a decent middle infield option would be ideal as well. If they're not willing / able to even do that (as in if THEY don't believe the team is worth investing in AND / OR it's such a seller's market that you cannot acquire pieces like that for flotsam and jetsam, then they should 1,000% sell).

They'd have several "valuable" short term assets they could look to move and - at least as of now - get a pretty decent return for (I assume in terms of Paxton, Turner and Martin, possibly Verdugo IF they don't intend to extend him - which I believe they should extend him). If it's such a seller's market that moves to at least pick up a back of the rotation arm and a middle infielder are untenable, turn around and sell.
 
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Merkle's Boner

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The offense is looking really good right now.

C - Wong: 83 ops+ (not good offensively but he more than makes up for it with his defense)
1b - Casas: 104 ops+ (and an .858 ops since May 3, over the span of 55 games)
2b - Arroyo: 79 ops+ (terrible)
3b - Devers: 124 ops+
SS - Hernandez: 60 ops+ (worse than terrible)
LF - Yoshida: 135 ops+
CF - Duran: 134 ops+
RF - Verdugo: 115 ops+
DH - Turner: 123 ops+ (.934 ops since May 28, with 9 homers and 37 rbi)
OF - Refsnyder: 104 ops+
OF - Duvall: 123 ops+

Now they have three regulars who are poor hitters: Wong, Arroyo, and Kiké. Hernandez has also been terrible defensively. But that will be fixed when Story comes back. Story will take one spot and will improve the SS position dramatically both offensively and defensively.

But up and down the lineup, this team is hitting. And you can live with Wong because he's so elite defensively. You add in Story at SS and Arroyo really becomes the only true weak link.
I'd be shocked if we see Kiké at SS anymore. Maybe once every two weeks. Not saying Chang's numbers are any better, but I'll take it, until Story is back.
 

JM3

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Just to clarify, you can't really project a guy who hasn't pitched in A+ yet as a top of the rotation starter - but Perales definitely has the stuff for it (Yordanny Monegro, too).

Wikelman Gonzalez, 21, made his AA debut yesterday throwing 99 & pitched 6 scoreless innings striking out 9.

He also has a top of the rotation arm, but he would need to make a few leaps to get there in terms of control & secondary pitches. Yesterday was a good start, though.

View: https://twitter.com/SoxProspects/status/1680713054747500545
 

jteders1

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While I certainly get your perspective, especially based on the relative "streakiness" of the team this year, I do think they should look into "buying" a top half of the rotation starter with term to go along with Bello to anchor the rotation for the 2024+ window.

The Sox do not have anyone in the organization that projects to be that in the next couple of seasons. Even if Perales has taken a sustainable "leap" and now projects as that top half of the rotation starter (there I'll just take @JM3 word on it since SP hasn't updated their summaries), having not pitched in A+ yet, he's still probably - best case scenario - looking at maybe a 2025 debut.

The farm system has a lot of "up the middle" types (yes, some of them will move out to the corners), but I do think this would be a good time to monetize some of those assets for the one thing they're lacking for the 2024+ core, which is another top half of the rotation starter.

Since I do agree with others who have stated there is no way we're trading top 10 prospects, the Sox at minimum have to take some of the pieces at the end of the 40-man and get whatever rotation help they can with those pieces, and a decent middle infield option would be ideal as well. If they're not willing/able to even do that (as in if THEY don't believe the team is worth investing in AND / OR it's such a seller's market that you cannot acquire pieces like that for flotsam and jetsam, then they should 1,000% sell).

They'd have several "valuable" short-term assets they could look to move and - at least as of now - get a pretty decent return for (I assume in terms of Paxton, Turner, and Martin, possibly Verdugo IF they don't intend to extend him - which I believe they should extend him). If it's such a seller's market that moves to at least pick up a back of the rotation arm and a middle infielder are untenable, turn around and sell.
Understand your reasoning, but I just think getting a top half of the rotation starter with multiple years of control you're looking at Meyer to start, and I want no part of that. Sending off 40-man repetitive pieces makes sense, but what do Bobby Dalbec and David Hamilton bring back? Maybe a back end of the rotation starter, which isn't nothing, and I'd be fine with it, but I'd rather wait, and make a run at Stroman, Hendricks, and Ryu this offseason.
 

nighthob

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The top of the rotation pitcher that they’re going to be buying is Yoshida’s old teammate Yoshinobu Yamamoto. I’m expecting a deal where they clear out some of the prospects on the 40 man, but they’re not getting anything other than useful spare parts for those guys. Overpaying for a top of the rotation starter in trade is not ideal.
 

TFisNEXT

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Understand your reasoning, but I just think getting a top half of the rotation starter with multiple years of control you're looking at Meyer to start, and I want no part of that. Sending off 40-man repetitive pieces makes sense, but what do Bobby Dalbec and David Hamilton bring back? Maybe a back end of the rotation starter, which isn't nothing, and I'd be fine with it, but I'd rather wait, and make a run at Stroman, Hendricks, and Ryu this offseason.
Yep, trying to trade for a higher caliber starter at the deadline versus just opening the checkbook during the offseason is going to cost an awful lot in terms of prospects which may be detrimental to the 2024-2026 window. It's temping to do because they are right in the race but I think any fantasy of a deep playoff run is going to start and end with Chris Sale/Tanner Houck getting healthy.

The move that makes the most sense is probably trading for a #4/5 starter as a 2 month rental which should be relatively cheap on the prospect cost. You just need someone to eat some innings in a semi-competent manner until the 2 aforementioned starters are back healthy.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Fair enough - and my intent wasn't at all to try and put words into your mouth @JM3, I just trust you've done a ton more research on the minor leagues than some of us - and certainly myself - so you'd have a more informed opinion, which is valuable, of course.

This just strengthens my overall point - there is nobody in the system (outside of Bello) that projects to be a top of the rotation starter for the 2023-2025 Boston Red Sox (Paxton IS here this year, of course). However, we do have players that reasonably project out to cover C - Wong, 1b - Casas, 3b - Devers, MI 1 - Story; LF - Yoshida, CF - Duran, RF - Verdugo (at least for 2024), which looks more and more like a solid core to build around.

When you get to the rotation though, you have Bello for the top half. I think it's probably pretty fair to say that between Houck, Crawford and Whitlock we should feel pretty confident that - at minimum - we have at least one back half of the rotation spot covered, as well as two very good bullpen arms. Personally, I think that Houck and Crawford BOTH are decent bets to be back of the rotation starters, and while I think Whitlock is arguably the best of the three (or at least has the best stuff) his durability has shown to be past 30 Saleian in nature, and he should be moved back to the bullpen to hope he can better hold up there over the course of a season.

With so much that is already in very good shape for the line up, and large number of "up the middle" position prospects in the minors, I do think the team should trade from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. Clearly I do not mean a "GFIN" type of move, and I'm making a distinction between those type of prospects not being "available" unless you're getting someone that projects as a top half of the rotation MLB starter for 2023-2025 seasons.


Edit - totally on board with the idea of going big on Yamamoto @nighthob; I wanted the Sox to sign Senga and Yamamoto is even more alluring. I'm admittedly wary of putting all the eggs in the basket of free agency, but Yamamoto is the (*probably realistic*) FA I would like the most this year as well - I'm sure a lot of other clubs will have him near the top of their list, too.

Though, if that is the case AND either they aren't prepared to invest what will be necessary to land players like @TFisNEXT alluded to OR the market is such a seller's market that you cannot acquire those pieces for relatively cheap prospect costs, then I think they should sell and sell hard. Just don't have a repeat of last year's deadline.
 
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TFisNEXT

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Edit - totally on board with the idea of going big on Yamamoto @nighthob; I wanted the Sox to sign Senga and Yamamoto is even more alluring. Though, if that is the case AND either they aren't prepared to invest what will be necessary to land players like @TFisNEXT alluded to OR the market is such a seller's market that you cannot acquire those pieces for relatively cheap prospect costs, then I think they should sell and sell hard. Just don't have a repeat of last year's deadline.
I think a 2021 type deadline would not be surprising assuming they are still right in it. They are not going to go "Full sell" mode if they are sitting in or just barely out of one of the wildcards. They will likely go the route of "lets grab something to stabilize the rotation a bit and hopefully Chris Sale is back healthy and the rust is shaken off by the September push". I could see them grabbing a supplemental bat too, though that may depend on what Trevor Story looks like in a couple weeks.
 

LogansDad

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I think it's easy to say this right now, while we're on a hot streak. It's unlikely to continue at this pace. In addition, the teams you mention above are veteran teams, whose players have longer track records of producing. We're still playing a bunch of young guys who are likely to experience some valleys over the year. That being said, the talent is as good as it's been in 5 years. Stay the course, wait for your injured players to return, and see if you can stay hot.
Players who have been important to a team winning a World Series (I may be missing a few):
Rafael Devers
Justin Turner
Kiké Hernandez (though he might be gone soon)
Adam Duvall

Kenley Jansen
Chris Martin
Chris Sale

This team has loads of veteran talent, many who have experienced winning it all.

Meanwhile, Refsnyder, McGuire, Tapia, and Verdugo have all played in the playoffs before, as have Pivetta and Paxton on the pitching side.

If this team misses the playoffs, it won't be for lack of a veteran presence.
 

JM3

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Players who have been important to a team winning a World Series (I may be missing a few):
Rafael Devers
Justin Turner
Kiké Hernandez (though he might be gone soon)
Adam Duvall

Kenley Jansen
Chris Martin
Chris Sale

This team has loads of veteran talent, many who have experienced winning it all.

Meanwhile, Refsnyder, McGuire, Tapia, and Verdugo have all played in the playoffs before, as have Pivetta and Paxton on the pitching side.

If this team misses the playoffs, it won't be for lack of a veteran presence.
Tapia is on the Brewers (& has a .620 OPS for them).

Guys like Whitlock have playoff experience, too.

But I don't think the issue is youth or experience or whatever - the issue is that the Red Sox are an injury-depleted & somewhat incomplete team as they have not reached their final phase (which I think begins next year). So they may flame out, & that's ok - or they may continue on a tear & make some noise in the playoffs, which is better than ok.
 

Rovin Romine

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I'd be shocked if we see Kiké at SS anymore. Maybe once every two weeks. Not saying Chang's numbers are any better, but I'll take it, until Story is back.
You'd think. . .but Chang came back on July 7.

July 7 - Chang SS, Hernandez 2B.
July 8 - Hernandez SS, (Chang as a late inning def. rep.)
July 9 - Chang SS, Hernandez CF (PH for by Duran after 2 ABs.)
ASB
July 14 - Chang SS (Turner 2B, Arroyo as a late inning def. rep.)
July 15 - Hernandez SS.
July 16 - Chang SS, (Hernandez late inning 2B sub in a laugher.)

I think we'll see Hernandez in the IF more frequently than is warranted by his ability at this point.
 

Rovin Romine

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He also has a top of the rotation arm, but he would need to make a few leaps to get there in terms of control & secondary pitches. Yesterday was a good start, though.
By definition it's not a top of the rotation arm though. It's an arm that throws a plus live fastball with marginal command - great for low minors hitters. 105 Ks in 63 innings at Greenville!!!! - with a 5.14 ERA.

He's had a very encouraging initial AAA game, and it's good that he has a raw-stuff plus pitch (or two even) but it's still a very open question as to whether he can harness those pitches in a way to get batters out without them scoring on him.

But it's not like there's some kind of guaranteed progression through the system afoot here.
 

JM3

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By definition it's not a top of the rotation arm though. It's an arm that throws a plus live fastball with marginal command - great for low minors hitters. 105 Ks in 63 innings at Greenville!!!! - with a 5.14 ERA.

He's had a very encouraging initial AAA game, and it's good that he has a raw-stuff plus pitch (or two even) but it's still a very open question as to whether he can harness those pitches in a way to get batters out without them scoring on him.

But it's not like there's some kind of guaranteed progression through the system afoot here.
I feel like you argue for the sake of arguing. I had originally written "top of the rotation stuff" but believe "arm" is a better way to put it since his current stuff would not play in the Majors. I also stated that he "would need to make a few leaps to get there"...which I'm pretty sure is the same thing you are saying in terms of a lack of guaranteed progression?

I am much higher on Perales & Monegro than Gonzalez, & think his most likely outcome is as a bullpen arm.

For more context on my Wikelman opinion, here is a post I wrote yesterday morning:

Wikelman is interesting... he seemed dominant in high-A... but has a 5.14 ERA this season.

In 63 innings he has only allowed 49 hits, but has 42 walks...& 105 strikeouts (15 per 9 IP).

Last time out he got shelled - 7 runs in 5 innings.

In his 10 starts prior to that one, though, he pitched 49.2 innings, allowing 14 earned runs on 31 hits & 27 walks with 83 strikeouts - 2.54 ERA.

I'm far less optimistic about Wikelman than I am about guys like Perales & Monegro because he can't seem to consistently harness his control, even when things are going good.

His lack of control basically makes it impossible to pitch deeper into games. In each of his last 9 starts he's pitched between 5 & 5.2 innings & thrown between 85 & 96 pitches each game. So even when things are going well, he hasn't been efficient.

If he can take one leap he should be a quality bullpen arm, but he's about 2 large leaps from being an impactful starter.
 

Rovin Romine

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That's a trick question, isn't it?

(I agree. Yu Chang must play shortstop until, at a minimum, Story can.)
I mean, I do feel a bit bad for the guy. He has + CF defense to his credit, and probably can hit better than this. OPS by Month: April - .716; May - .590; June - .555; July - .294.

But the OF is crowded, and I don't see a way to justify starting him against LHH or RHH with Yoshida, Verdugo, Duran, Refsnyder, and Duvall available. (I mean in terms of "trying to get guys going again" you play Duvall before Hernandez, I think.)

So that leaves the IF. If Hernandez can hold down 2B, that's sort of OK, maybe, as a placeholder. . .but not if he displaces Arroyo or Reyes.

-Arroyo is a RHH who has a platoon split, has a fairly stable hitting history, and has hit well in July.
-Reyes is a RHH who has a SSS this year, but at a rough guess can possibly manage a .700 OPS.
Either way they're both outhitting Hernandez on the year, and they're trending in opposite directions from Hernandez.

-Chang is a RHH who has occasional pop. He's not really a true "surprise breakout" candidate any more, but he's also shown streaks of adequacy, and thus (sadly) has a hope of breaking even with Hernandez's output this year.
-Hernandez is a RHH who last had a decent month at the plate in April of this year. Before that the last time he OPSed above .690 was August of 2021 (or the post season of that year.)

You put a RHH Story in that mix, and Hernandez would be the first to go, followed by Chang.

***

If Hernandez's 2021 season was replicate-able, yes, he's a keeper. If he had a kind of "hot streak" ability to hit above .700 for a solid month or so, while playing a good 2B/CF, he might also be a keeper. But the second is far from certain at this point, and the first seems pretty unlikely - apart from something like an off-season to retool the swing and whatnot for a late-career swan-song-season.

I'd keep him for the rest of the season if he played GG SS and was guaranteed to be just this crappy with the bat. He'd fill the defensive SS/CF role with emergency 2B/OF coverage. But he's limited himself to CF at this point defensively.

I think he's a good change-of-scenery candidate. . .or at least a dark-horse for that.
 
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Rovin Romine

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I feel like you argue for the sake of arguing.
Hmm. You know, nobody has ever said that to me.

;)

I had originally written "top of the rotation stuff" but believe "arm" is a better way to put it since his current stuff would not play in the Majors. I also stated that he "would need to make a few leaps to get there"...which I'm pretty sure is the same thing you are saying in terms of a lack of guaranteed progression?

I am much higher on Perales & Monegro than Gonzalez, & think his most likely outcome is as a bullpen arm.

For more context on my Wikelman opinion, here is a post I wrote yesterday morning:
Sometimes it's just about brake-pumping the semantics so as not to rile up the more trollish fans.

I also think the way we value prospects deserves a look now and again. Do you go with a control guy who might develop a 3rd pitch and add 1 or 2 MPH? Or do you go with a guy who throws hard but never has established control? Or do you go with a guy with multiple pitches (like Crawford) and hope a few will shine at the end of the process.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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That's a trick question, isn't it?

(I agree. Yu Chang must play shortstop until, at a minimum, Story can.)
So Story would be displacing Chang.... are you going with Arroyo at 2B as the regular? I'd rather see Story just stick at 2B and Chang stay at SS. Arroyo or Reyes is a better bet there as the backup/break guy (I guess with Turner but I'd rather avoid him there).

I'd like to see on a regular basis:
Wong
Casas
Story
Chang
Devers
Verdugo
Duran
Yoshida
Turner
with Kiké being the defensive replacement (going with him in CF, moving Duran to LF)
with Arroyo being the middle IF bench warmer.
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
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Sometimes it's just about brake-pumping the semantics so as not to rile up the more trollish fans.

I also think the way we value prospects deserves a look now and again. Do you go with a control guy who might develop a 3rd pitch and add 1 or 2 MPH? Or do you go with a guy who throws hard but never has established control? Or do you go with a guy with multiple pitches (like Crawford) and hope a few will shine at the end of the process.
Fair. I try to keep my in-depth prospect stuff to the Minor League thread, so my description here was probably lazy.

I think the correct answer is "all of them". I think it's easiest to see a high ceiling on guys who throw the ball hard af, just like it's easier to see the high ceiling on a basketball player with elite athleticism. But that doesn't mean you can only invest in those guys or that's the only type of guy that's going to hit.

The Red Sox currently have all those archetypes in different levels of the system that are hopefully progessing toward helping the Major League team. To a large extent, having prospects hit is a numbers game.

I could go into how the top 20 or whatever starting pitching prospects in the system fit those different molds & where they would each need to take leaps to be useful... but I have a lot of work to do & this seems like the entirely wrong thread lol
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
6,499
If we’ve fixed Story’s elbow, why would we not play him at SS?
Does it matter if he's at 2B or SS? Either Arroyo or Chang will have to play the other position and I'm more comfortable with Chang at SS than either of them at 2B. And while Story's elbow may be "fixed"... I'd still prefer to take it a little cautiously and have him at 2B where his defense was outstanding last season
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
21,729
Rogers Park
I know Chang is a good SS compared to Kiké and Xander and Reyes and Arroyo, i.e. many of the people we’ve watched there in recent years. But a healthy Story is actually a very good SS, likely much better than Chang range-wise. (The revamped arm strength remains to be seen.)

In 2019, for example, his OAA was 99th percentile!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Jan 23, 2009
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Does it matter if he's at 2B or SS? Either Arroyo or Chang will have to play the other position and I'm more comfortable with Chang at SS than either of them at 2B. And while Story's elbow may be "fixed"... I'd still prefer to take it a little cautiously and have him at 2B where his defense was outstanding last season
I can't remember where I saw it (one of the beat guys on twitter) but they made the point that throughout 2022, Trevor Story exclusively worked out at 2B. He never even fielded balls at SS during BP. But this year, in his recovery/rehab, he's been working out exclusively at SS. When he returns, there should be zero doubt he will be the SS for the team.

Frankly, Arroyo has been fine defensively at 2B. All the metrics have him in the positive, which means he's at least average. A Story/Arroyo middle infield combo should be solid defensively and definitely has the biggest offensive upside out of any possible combo the Sox could field with their current personnel. Chang is a prototypical back-up middle infielder. He can handle both positions well and while his offense isn't great, he has some pop. He's the kind of guy they can get away with having in the lineup once or twice a week. His defense isn't enough to warrant anything more for him if Story is healthy.