Why Not JBJ?
- Thread starter Todd Benzinger
- Start date
- Status
When Hanley returns, there is absolutely no reason to play De Aza over Bradley. Keep Bradley in the lineup for the rest of the season so that the organization can figure out if he should be a starting OF in 2016.
Does Betts have the arm to play RF full time? I'd think JBJ would be the long term RF if anything, especially since the Sox like the cf in rf thing.
bosox79 said:
Not saying Betts is X or it had anything to do with his struggles, but with X's collapse due to switching positions in his first full big league year last year fresh on my mind, I don't even want to play with Mookie's head now. He's our CF rest of the year in a big fat black sharpie
Mookie is really good in CF. Why mess with something that isn't a problem?
Also, JBJ's arm is well suited for Fenway's RF.
Also, JBJ's arm is well suited for Fenway's RF.
I think Betts CF/JBJ RF is fine as the practical short-term response to this situation. Betts shown he can be a good CF and JBJ certainly has the tools to be a great RF.
I think if JBJ sticks and Rusney (eventually) sticks, given everyone's skills and limitations the best long-term deployment is Betts/JBJ/Rusney left to right. But that can wait, and it depends on a lot of things we don't know yet.
I think if JBJ sticks and Rusney (eventually) sticks, given everyone's skills and limitations the best long-term deployment is Betts/JBJ/Rusney left to right. But that can wait, and it depends on a lot of things we don't know yet.
Hm, it's an interesting choice. RF in Fenway is a big deal but of course they play another 81 games (e.g. road) where CF is arguably a bigger deal. Anyway, I don't think the Sox want to move Mookie around for Bradley right now.bosox79 said:
That throw was a rope - the runner's best hope was for everyone to get bored while they waited for him at the plate.
In a season like this, I'll take my good moments where I find 'em, and JBJ in the OF (and kids playing well generally - come on down, Mookie and X!) is about what I'm finding with the current crew...
In a season like this, I'll take my good moments where I find 'em, and JBJ in the OF (and kids playing well generally - come on down, Mookie and X!) is about what I'm finding with the current crew...
Swihart also had nice month of June.mwonow said:
My hope is that the rest of the season is used to get the high pedigree youngsters (Mookie, X, Swihart, Rodriguez) a head start on ML adaptation while some of the bigger question marks (Betts, Travis Shaw, Marrero) get answered in some meaningful way. Add in Brian Johnson getting a shot to earn a ML starting role. I would find that an enjoyable second half of the year.
Holy crap that seems fast. I'm sure the momentum of the crow hop adds a couple MPH but still. Damn.shepard50 said:
Hasn't the viewpoint always been that Fenway's right field almost necessitates having "two centerfielders"? The Betts in CF, JBJ in RF feels a lot like Ellsbury and Victorino back in 2013. JBJ is probably better at both positions than Betts but like Ells/Vic, only one of the two has the arm to play RF at Fenway. JBJ can also play CF on Betts' days off, so it's not like he's wasting away in RF.
From this point forward, there's no reason to be sitting Bradley Jr. unless it's a really tough lefty or he proves he's just totally overwhelmed. Our pitchers need all the help they can get defensively and Bradley has nothing more to prove in AAA.
From this point forward, there's no reason to be sitting Bradley Jr. unless it's a really tough lefty or he proves he's just totally overwhelmed. Our pitchers need all the help they can get defensively and Bradley has nothing more to prove in AAA.
Well 500 major league at bats with a batting average under .200 is reason enough. You could argue this team was constituted where you could waste offense at one position, for instance on an elite fielding and throwing arm in right field hoping that guy goes on Betts or Pedrioa like hot streak proving he's more like his minor league numbers than his major league numbers. Problem is you can't afford to waste that offense in a corner spot when the easiest corner spot to find offense (1B) is last in the league in OPS and you've got another spot in the roster giving you nothing ( C). So while he has nothing to prove at AAA, his leash at the ML level is short due to the fact that we don't have the luxury of waiting to see if his next 300 AB's are above .240.
Blame injuries to Vazquez and Hannigan, Swihart up before he's ready, Leon sucking, and Napoli giving us nothing. If one of those things didn't happen, he'd be in right the rest of the year.
Blame injuries to Vazquez and Hannigan, Swihart up before he's ready, Leon sucking, and Napoli giving us nothing. If one of those things didn't happen, he'd be in right the rest of the year.
The team is in last place and 9 games out at 47% of the way through the season. While it's plausible they can bounce back and compete, it's highly unlikely. Fangraphs has them at just a 12% chance of making the postseason. There's really no reason to be giving the likes of Alejandro de Aza at bats at the expense of Bradley Jr. Better to give him 250 more PAs this summer and see what they have. If he flops, we're still in last place but at least the team can move on from JBJ. If he succeeds, they're probably also still in last place but at least know they may have a future for JBJ as at least a 4th OF.
I'm not saying outright tank and just give spots to young guys but if the talent difference is relatively the same, give it to the young guy. Right now I don't see the benefit to giving starts to de Aza or innings to Masterson when they can go to guys who have shown they have nothing left to prove in AAA like JBJ and Brian Johnson.
I'm not saying outright tank and just give spots to young guys but if the talent difference is relatively the same, give it to the young guy. Right now I don't see the benefit to giving starts to de Aza or innings to Masterson when they can go to guys who have shown they have nothing left to prove in AAA like JBJ and Brian Johnson.
PaulinMyrBch said:
I don't agree at all. Waiting to see if his next 300 ABs are above .240 is exactly the luxury this team has right now, and (hopefully) will not have in the future. Go look at the Royals for a roster full of examples of guys who needed more then 500 AB to find themselves.
Playing 6 v 9 for the month of June would be the definition of an outright tank. I'm all for giving JBJ more opportunities going forward. But the DeAza playing the last three weeks at least put us in 7 v 9 mode.
jscola85 said:
I think this is basically right, and I think we will see them gradually morph toward this approach. For now, they still have to play as if they have a shot, because they still do. But as that shot gets less and less realistic, we should see less and less of guys like de Aza who aren't in the plan for 2016 and beyond.
PaulinMyrBch said:
With Pedroia and Hanley being out since JBJ was recalled (and likely to be out for a few weeks...Hanley is Boston-bound for more tests and I'm guessing a DL stint), JBJ is getting and probably will continue to get his opportunities independent of what De Aza or Holt's (as the other guy who can arguably take ABs from JBJ) status are since there's room for all three in the starting lineup.
It's debatable whether the less than optimal lineup they're putting on the field is "tanking" or not, but for now, what choice do they have?
They don't have a choice now. But JBJ, Craig, Rusney, Nava, and Vic put them in a position to trade for 2 outfielders the past month. Time to cash in if you had 2 in the pre-July outfielder trade pool.
PaulinMyrBch said:
I'd cross JBJ right off that list, arguably Castillo too. The injuries to Nava and Victorino and the ineptitude of Craig led to them trading for Peguero and De Aza to fill the back-up OF spot. JBJ wasn't ever expected to be a 4th outfielder bench player this season, so when that need arose, they weren't about to call him up to sit 4-5 days a week.
He's been the hottest hitter in Pawtucket all season. It's not as though he hasn't earned his way back to the big club now that there's regular playing time for him. His playing regularly for the next couple months if not the rest of the season, good or bad, isn't going to be the reason for the team's demise. They dug that hole without him.
No reason except that De Aza has produced as a major leaguer this year but what does that matter right? When Victorino comes off the DL JBJ will be back at McCoy with no role for him here I'd imagine.FanSinceBoggs said:
This is exactly what you are saying by removing one OF with a .830 OPS this year with one who is .550 over 500 ABs to "see what we have here."
Last out of game today and JBJ lost track of outs. Caught the 3rd out, gunned it to the plate and for a good 5-10 seconds was walking back to his position. No harm, would rather the mistake be under counting outs. Did not look bad at plate today. Hit one that I thought was a gapper off the bat to RC but it hung up. Really want to see him hit. Would live to see him be an every day OF with that defense. Fun to watch.
kieckeredinthehead said:
He has a .838 OPS (before today) in a Red Sox uniform this year. Granted that's just 18 (now 19 games). He's been playing well since he came in. If winning and having the best possible lineup on the field every game is the goal, then you ride De Aza until he cools off.
But with the team 9 games under .500 and 8 games back in the division at the end of June, the notion of playing to win every game now is one of diminishing returns. At some point, you play the guys that will benefit the team down the line, not the guys who are going to be out the door by the end of the year. JBJ is not going to lose playing time to De Aza (or Victorino) if he's being productive in the lineup.
uncannymanny said:
Right, but I think kieckered is right to suggest that that's a pretty meaningless split. He has about twice as many PA with the O's as with us, and it's hard to see why we should see his PA with us as special and different. We just happened to catch him when he got hot, which is great, but his overall performance this year has got to be more meaningful than his Sox split.
After today, BTW, that overall OPS is .731, which really isn't bad for a backup OF. And if you take his split vs. RHP, it probably went over .800 today (.791 going in). A De Aza/Victorino platoon or semi-platoon in RF would probably be a pretty solid option if the Sox are in the race.
The goal in June has to be to win games.....in late July and August that could change. I don't disagree that JBJ isn't going to lose playing time if he's being productive but it is De Aza who is being productive and not JBJ. He also made two noticeable defensive blunders, one bobbling the ball in the warning track that allowed the runner to get to 3rd and in the 9th by not knowing the game situation which didn't cost us anything however that doesn't discount the mistake/loss of focus.Red(s)HawksFan said:
HomeRunBaker said:
I'm wondering if this is the kind of thing that is a by-product of Bradley putting too much pressure on himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he feels like he is running out of chances with this organization.
Since '95, no team has come back from more than 7 games back after 81 games to reach the playoffs. The worst record for a playoff team after 81 games was 41-40. June is over, as are this team's playoff hopes.HomeRunBaker said:
Are we really dinging JBJ for playing for a fourth out? I get that it can be perceived as a lack of focus or concentration or whatever, but I'd rather he play like there's less than three outs all the time instead of risking him playing the 2nd out of an inning like it was the third and really costing the team something.
For a player looking to make an impression making what could have been a critical mental error in the 9th inning of a close game.....absolutely. It isn't relevant whether he thought there was one more or one less out than there actually was.....it is really a stretch to justify one mental error is better than another when the player doesn't make this choice, it is a random event. I'm more concerned with his inability to hit ML pitching but not going to ignore the physical and the mental error he made today when evaluating the player.Red(s)HawksFan said:
kieckeredinthehead said:
Do you have a source for that? Because I just randomly picked the 2007 Colorado Rockies and found that they were 39-42 after 81 games and 8 games back.
Source was http://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/mlb/do-baseball-teams-still-have-a-chance-at-making-the-postseason-after-a-poor-start.aspx. Couldn't find anything that gave more than the tenth percentiles, but figured if I posted it somebody would randomly choose the team that had a worse record and post it.
Still trying to find an example of a team that was 38-43 that made it, which is the (hilariously unlikely) best case scenario for Boston.
kieckeredinthehead said:
2013 Dodgers
http://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/mlb/do-baseball-teams-still-have-a-chance-at-making-the-postseason-after-a-poor-start.aspx
kieckeredinthehead said:
Would that have changed in any of the years now that they have the second wild card (from years '95 - 2011)?
Good job to the Research Team LOL! Anyway it's all semantics......using kiecker's study we punt Game 4 in 2004 since nobody has come back from 3-0 to win the ALCS before......bottom line is that we are still competing to win a playoff berth and aren't packing up the tent in June after winning 4 consecutive 3-game series. There will be plenty of time to get JBJ another extended look in August and September if/when we are out of the race but until then it's pretty clear De Aza today is the better ML player.
Yea but JBJ came up for a few games and and went 0 for 10 before he went down. Show us 3 or 4 hits then and maybe he's a better option than a trade. He had year another shot earlier this season. And again I hope the bat doesn't stall at AAAA, but I need to see it.Red(s)HawksFan said:
And while no one argues the D isn't elite, can we stop salivating over 240 foot outfield assists.
- Status