Why Not JBJ?

[Heating up in the bullpen]

He also made two noticeable defensive blunders, one bobbling the ball in the warning track that allowed the runner to get to 3rd and in the 9th by not knowing the game situation which didn't cost us anything however that doesn't discount the mistake/loss of focus.

It also looked like he could have caught Grady Sizemore's double - jumped at the wall but never put his glove up to make the catch. Maybe discretion was the better part of valor, and I can't fault a guy much for not wanting to leave himself vulnerable to a ~20 mph impact with a wall, but it looked like he had a shot at it and didn't take it.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
Would that have changed in any of the years now that they have the second wild card (from years '95 - 2011)?

 
The following teams were 7 or more GB after 81 games and (unless I'm missing something) would have made 2nd WC:
 
1997 Dodgers: 8 
1998 Blue Jays: 16.5
1999 Athletics: 7
2000 Indians: 10
2005 Indians: 9.5
2005 Phillies: 8.5
2006 Phillies: 11.0
2009 Giants: 7.5

 

[nvalvo]

It also looked like he could have caught Grady Sizemore's double - jumped at the wall but never put his glove up to make the catch. Maybe discretion was the better part of valor, and I can't fault a guy much for not wanting to leave himself vulnerable to a ~20 mph impact with a wall, but it looked like he had a shot at it and didn't take it.

Weren't we down to Sandy Leon as the entire bench?

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

Weren't we down to Sandy Leon as the entire bench?

Make the catch, game over.
Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky. I totally get not giving yourself up to run into a wall, even a padded wall. But I doubt his awareness of the bench depth played a role in the decision. After all, he did jump at the fence. I can't imagine that in mid-flight he thought, "Oh crap, if I get hurt here we won't have anyone to play right field, better pull it back in..."
I've watched the replay a few times just now and I'm changing my mind. I don't think he jumped for the ball at all. I think he knew he couldn't make the catch. The jump was his way of slowing his momentum. He's on a full sprint toward the wall, takes a couple of strides on the warning track, knows he's got to slow down or run smack into it, so jumps and braces himself for the impact.
Why he didn't realize his catch on Longoria's fly ball.was the third out is another story. But I'll tell you what I loved on the play - his footwork and timing to get himself lined up and with momentum to make a strong throw home. Dewey-esque.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Watching in person I thought he never had a chance of catching Sizemore's ball in the 9th.

As for the misjudgment on outs, I'd rather it be that way than catching it with one out and flipping it in the stands.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

He's on a full sprint toward the wall, takes a couple of strides on the warning track, knows he's got to slow down or run smack into it, so jumps and braces himself for the impact.

 
One thing I'll cut JBJ some slack for is that Tropicana Field doesn't really have a warning track, it's just differently-colored astroturf. It can't make plays like yesterday's any easier.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

A warning track without dirt isn't a warning track at all.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
One thing I'll cut JBJ some slack for is that Tropicana Field doesn't really have a warning track, it's just differently-colored astroturf. It can't make plays like yersterday's any easier.

Yeah that would have been a SC-like highlight catch that would have been eye opening. I'm critical of this player but trying to be reasonable here. His defensive blunders yesterday were the botched ball on the ground and failing to recognize a standard game situation such as number of outs. Using the wall as a springboard to avoid rehabbing his hammy with Vic in Pawtucket was actually a pretty savvy veteran play on his part.

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

Yeah that would have been a SC-like highlight catch that would have been eye opening. I'm critical of this player but trying to be reasonable here. His defensive blunders yesterday were the botched ball on the ground and failing to recognize a standard game situation such as number of outs. Using the wall as a springboard to avoid rehabbing his hammy with Vic in Pawtucket was actually a pretty savvy veteran play on his part.

Yes, after seeing the play several times I agree. This play is an illustration of the difference playing outfield for many years makes. JBJ knows to not run into the wall, but to use it to his advantage to slow his momentum. Two or three weeks ago, Mookie was unable to realize he'd be better off not crashing into the fence and railing in the triangle at Fenway. (I'm still amazed he didn't miss more time - that was a horrendous-looking impact.)

 

[Plympton91]

I stumbled into a cautionary tale about reading too much into Jackie Bradley's resurgence in AAA this season, and that is Taylor Teagarden:
 
Career in AAA:  .265 / .358 / .483 in 798 PAs
Career in MLB: .203 / .263 / .382 in 550 PAs

 

[HillysLastWalk]

But Taylor Teagarden was striking out at rates 25% or greater.  In 2007 in AA, he struck out 33.9%, 2008 in AA, he struck out 33.8%, and 2008 in AAA he was at 27.1%.  After that he was in the 30-40% range (in stops at the Majors and Minors).
 
I thought that the most exciting part of his adjustment, which might help him stick once he gets a real chance, is that he reduced his K rate to 13.9% (when he was 26.1% in AAA the previous year).  On top of that his Walk Rate moved to 9.1% (4.3% in AAA the previous year).  His strike zone control is very much improved (and real).

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

But Taylor Teagarden was striking out at rates 25% or greater.  In 2007 in AA, he struck out 33.9%, 2008 in AA, he struck out 33.8%, and 2008 in AAA he was at 27.1%.  After that he was in the 30-40% range (in stops at the Majors and Minors).
 
I thought that the most exciting part of his adjustment, which might help him stick once he gets a real chance, is that he reduced his K rate to 13.9% (when he was 26.1% in AAA the previous year).  On top of that his Walk Rate moved to 9.1% (4.3% in AAA the previous year).  His strike zone control is very much improved (and real).

 
It would be easier to feel good about this if the improvement had shown up in his brief MLB stint this year even a tiny bit. Granted, the sample is tiny, so it's much too soon to write the improvement off as strictly a AAA thing. But his K rate so far is exactly the same as last year's: 28.6%.

 

[HillysLastWalk]

But (and you mentioned this), we are talking 35 Plate Appearances, with some of those coming against pitchers like Sonny Gray and Felix Hernandez.
 
In his most recent call-up he got at-bats in 6 games.
 
1 against Baltimore (no strikeouts).
3 against Tampa Bay (4 strikeouts)
2 against Toronto (2 strikeouts).
 
Against Tampa Bay, one came against Brad Boxberger who has a 12.27 K/9 and one against Chris Archer who has a 10.87 K/9 and is really really good.
 
Against Toronto, one came against Steve Delabar who has a 10.27 K/9 and one against Dickey - who well, that happens against knuckleballers sometimes.  But against Toronto he also picked up two walks and his first home run.  He was starting to look more comfortable with continued playing time.

 

[smastroyin]

None of the micro analysis matters.  It is very easy to find successful and failure comps for nearly every player profile.  You can find comps in the minors, comps in the majors, comps at various positions - outside of real edge of the curve guys.  Comps are great at rejecting the hypothesis that "no/every player of Player X's profile has ever succeeded" but until you build a large group of comps, it's not telling you much.
 
That said, Teagarden is a terrible comp in aggregate.  Here is how he accumulated his AAA numbers.
 
218 PA as a 24 YO (225/332/396)
39 PA as a 26 YO (167/211/333)
173 PA as a 27 YO (285/376/589)
13 PA as a 29 YO (077/077/077)
211 PA as a 30 YO (303/403/579)
144 PA as a 31 YO (294/375/437)
 
Nevermind that Teagarden's stats were accumulated in the PCL which averages about 3/4 run more offense than the IL. 
 
What might be instructive of Teagarden is those age 25-27 years where he spent the majority of time on the Texas bench doing zero, or on the DL.  It would be nice therefore to avoid doing this with JBJ or trade him before you do.
 
JBJ, by comparison:
374 PA as a 23 YO (274/374/469)
69 PA as a 24 YO (212/246/273)
252 PA as a 25 YO (314/390/462)
 
I mean ok JBJ hasn't aged enough yet for me to completely write this off as apples to oranges, but it's at least an apples to pears comparison right now.

 

[Hee Sox Choi]

Another thing I noticed about Teagarden was that he had incredibly high BABIPs every season in AAA.
 
2015: .433 in 144 PA
2014: .374 in 211 PA
2013: SSS (was in MLB)
2012: SSS (was in MLB)
2011: .356 in 173 PA
2010: .368 in 220 PA (Double-A)
 
I left out some really small samples where he got a few ABs here and there in AA and AAA.  But you get the picture.  
Jackie's at .355 this year so he's getting some luck as well (he's hitting .314/.390/.462 good for a 150 wRC+ in AAA this year).
 
Yeah, what Smas said above about cherrypicking one player...

 

[Super Nomario]

Another thing I noticed about Teagarden was that he had incredibly high BABIPs every season in AAA.
 
2015: .433 in 144 PA
2014: .374 in 211 PA
2013: SSS (was in MLB)
2012: SSS (was in MLB)
2011: .356 in 173 PA
2010: .368 in 220 PA (Double-A)
 
I left out some really small samples where he got a few ABs here and there in AA and AAA.  But you get the picture.  
Jackie's at .355 this year so he's getting some luck as well (he's hitting .314/.390/.462 good for a 150 wRC+ in AAA this year).
 
Yeah, what Smas said above about cherrypicking one player...

Those are quite high, but it's worth noting that minor league BABIPs are higher in general. This year, for instance, the AL BABIP is .295, IL is .307, PCL is .322. In general, I think we ought to be skeptical that players are going to have above-average BABIPs at the major league level even if they have them in the minors.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Can we start talking about Jackie again? Because he just doesn't seem able to hit at this level. In don't know of it's a long swing, bad luck, or nerves....but this is probably his last chance, and he's blowing it.

Rudy .. How many ABs would you consider a "fair" chance? 10? 20? 100?

Given the upside of a Bradley who's not a bad hitter ..
how about put him in the lineup every day to get 150-200 Abs and see what we have?

 

[semsox]

He's currently rocking a .118 BABIP, and he's having good at bats. His K rate is still higher than it should be, but he also has a 12.5% BB rate. Oh, he's also playing the best CF defense in MLB. At this point in the year, everyone wants the Sox to just play the kids anyway, so hopefully he's going to continue to go out there and play. 

 

[MakeMineMoxie]

I admit, I have an irrational desire to see JBJ patrolling CF or RF for the Sox for the next 10 years.
 
To my untrained eye, he seems to be having much better AB's this year compared to last. Fewer flailing away swings and decent contact. As SemSox points out, BABIP currently hates him but she is a fickle bitch. Play him the rest of the way!

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I'd just as soon see Ramirez on the phantom DL...rest up for next year, and play an outfield of Betts - JBJ - Toolsney for the rest of the season.
 
As long as Betts doesn't kill himself in Left Field.
 
On the other hand, it's tough to put anyone out in Fenway LF for the first time during real games, whether it's Castillo or Betts. On the third hand, De Aza seemed to acclimate pretty quickly.
 
I'd just like to watch an outfield with 3 (all plus) center fielders playing at the same time. Any games in Colorado this year?

 

[Rasputin]

I admit, I have an irrational desire to see JBJ patrolling CF or RF for the Sox for the next 10 years.
 
To my untrained eye, he seems to be having much better AB's this year compared to last. Fewer flailing away swings and decent contact. As SemSox points out, BABIP currently hates him but she is a fickle bitch. Play him the rest of the way!

 
I mostly agree, but he's getting fuck all for results. I see him hitting the ball hard more, but I still see him striking out a bunch and getting fuck all for results. I want to see him play, but I've got to see a lot more before he's anything but a long shot bench guy coming in to spring training.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
I mostly agree, but he's getting fuck all for results. I see him hitting the ball hard more, but I still see him striking out a bunch and getting fuck all for results. I want to see him play, but I've got to see a lot more before he's anything but a long shot bench guy coming in to spring training.

I don't think he's hitting the ball hard more often with any real consistency. It's too few ABs to really tell, but BIS seems to agree, and has him actually with a lower percentage of hard hit balls than 2014 or 2013.
 
I'll say that he looks more patient at the plate, but he also still looks totally incapable of making hard contact with anything but very bad mistake pitches. He looks overmatched most of the time against competent MLB pitching.

 

[threecy]

I'll say that he looks more patient at the plate, but he also still looks totally incapable of making hard contact with anything but very bad mistake pitches. He looks overmatched most of the time against competent MLB pitching.

Does he still have the toe tap/hitch in his swing?  One gets the impression that he can cheat on minor league pitching, but can't on major league pitching.

 

[moondog80]

Can we start talking about Jackie again? Because he just doesn't seem able to hit at this level. In don't know of it's a long swing, bad luck, or nerves....but this is probably his last chance, and he's blowing it.

He seems to be getting stung by BABIP, but even correcting for that moves him to .225 or so. SSS too. But no, the early returns are not promising. That said, nothing to lose by keeping him out there this year.

 

[Fishy1]

There have been some hard hit balls, and he put up a few good at bats in the first game of the Yankees series especially, but it's very true, the results haven't been good.
 
It's clear he made an adjustment at AAA this year, because beyond the results, the difference was huge in his peripherals. He posted his lowest K% since A+ -- just 13.8%. And yet, so far at the major league level, he's looked largely outmatched and frustrated. Three line drives have gone for 1 hit, sure, but he's also struck out 5 times in 19 at bats. I was playing the optimist in the game thread, but frankly, most of the time he looked like shit. It looked like if they'd thrown a curtain over him he would've swung through it.
 
Maybe this is just his first real slump of the year (he's posted an OPS north of .800 each month in AAA), and we caught him at a bad time. Maybe he just blows. I don't think there's any doubt that the difference between AAA and MLB is enough to make JBJ a worse hitter; I think the cognitive dissonance comes in when the difference is nearly one hundred points of batting average for his career, and ~10% more strikeouts so far at the major league level. For Christ's sake, Joey Gallo was striking out 37% of the time at AAA and even his K% only went up 6% upon promotion.
 
I won't discount the possibility that this is the real JBJ at the major league level, but I hope he'll get a run here beyond a week's ABs as a kind of last shot. I'll take that chance even if it means living with my cognitive dissonance forever.

 

[JimD]

Just play him.  The only downside is further decreasing his trade value, but it was likely depressed already even after his AAA resurgence, so I don't see the risk of further damaging it.

 

[yecul]

At this point it does seem likely that he isn't up to snuff with the bat at the ML level. However, they need to take the rest of the year and just throw him out there everyday to confirm that. He's so good defensively that you want him on the field if he can get it together. I think there is still hope of him being tolerable at the plate.

 

[KillerBs]

Just play him.  The only downside is further decreasing his trade value, but it was likely depressed already even after his AAA resurgence, so I don't see the risk of further damaging it.

True, but when Mookie returns it looks like Bradley and Castillo will be on the bench most nights watching deAza and Napoli.

 

[DJnVa]

At this point it does seem likely that he isn't up to snuff with the bat at the ML level. However, they need to take the rest of the year and just throw him out there everyday to confirm that. He's so good defensively that you want him on the field if he can get it together. I think there is still hope of him being tolerable at the plate.

 
Yeah, I have no problem with him playing the rest of the year and seeing what happens but he's approaching 600 PAs in the majors and his OPS+ is 50. I love the defense, and his apparently good baserunning, but he's been a black hole at the plate. Give him another 150 PAs this year and see if something shakes loose, but man, I don't know.
 
It's only been 50 ABs this year, and that means essentially nothing, but you'd love to see something turn around for him, SSS or not. If he can hit .250-.260, walk the same amount (giving him an OBP in the .330-.340 range) then we've got something on top of his defense.
 
 

 

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

He seems to be getting stung by BABIP, but even correcting for that moves him to .225 or so. SSS too. But no, the early returns are not promising. That said, nothing to lose by keeping him out there this year.

 
Nothing to lose and everything to gain. Once Mookie is back I think a loose platoon of JBJ and Rusney in RF, with somebody moving to LF as a defensive replacement for Hanley when we have a lead, should be the norm for the remainder of the year. We can lose De Aza in a waiver deal. 
 
That said, it seems awfully likely that the problem at this point is mental and that it might take a fresh start in another organization to fix it.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

JBJ advocates preaching that nearly 600 PA over 3 seasons isn't enough of a sample are waiting for him to be successful over 150-200 PA. He shouldn't get that many PA simply because he doesn't deserve that long of a rope with Castillo and even de Aza who looks like a strong candidate to stick around as a 4th OF next season. He had his lengthy opportunity next season and failed......very few players get as many chances as Bradley has following such a season and he's responded with an OPS+ of 9. Possibly the worst thing to happen is JBJ get "hot" in his 50-100 PA down the stretch and allow him a longer rope to hang himself by while strangling the Sox offense in future years.

 

[smastroyin]

JBJ advocates are saying there's no fucking reason not to let him play when the difference between him an an all-star level OF right now is the Sox winning 74 games instead of 72.
 
Alejandro de Aza is 31 years old.  He is who he is.  No matter what playing time the Red Sox give him. 

 

[yecul]

I'm willing to excuse a portion of those ABs and the lack of excuse -- or at least give more rope -- due to their somewhat scattered nature. Give him the rest of the year and get him out there as consistently and as much as possible. It's a part way into the season so there's no rust/spring training factor and he's already been hitting fine at AAA to boot. He shows something or he doesn't. Let's find out.

 

[Cellar-Door]

If they come at the expense of someone who won't be here JBJ should get ABs. However if they come at the expense of Rusney I think it's a mistake. Rusney seems the more likely of the two to have value, and unless they give up on Hanley in LF when Mookie gets back a decision has to be made who starts in RF. I'd much rather it was Rusney.

 

[moondog80]

 de Aza who looks like a strong candidate to stick around as a 4th OF next season. 

 
Be prepared to pay.  He's a FA and will get a pretty decent contract.  Adjusted for PA, his WAR this year is ahead of Ellsbury, Zobrist, and Steven Souza, and not far beind Matt Holliday, Justin Upton, Jay Bruce, and Yasiel Puig.  Career OPS+ of 101, good speed, can play all 3 OF spots more or less average (one fluky bad year in 2009 accounts for near all of his negative dWAR).  What's that worth?  16 mil for 2 years? More?

 

[smastroyin]

Which leads into what a contender might give up for him.  Hopefully Ben is in talks.  Not that he will necessarily clear waivers.  
 
After Uehara, de Aza is the guy that I can least understand being on this team for the remainder of 2015.  That kind of thing as much as the decisions coming into the season are what make me wonder what the FO is really trying to do.  Obviously the easy defense is just that they didn't have any appealing offers.  I get that.  But it's still kind of strange.  I guess the other defense is that they can't just not have players on the team, but I'm sure they could find a AAAA OF on the waiver wire if they needed to, or use Holt, or whatever.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

 
Be prepared to pay.  He's a FA and will get a pretty decent contract.  Adjusted for PA, his WAR this year is ahead of Ellsbury, Zobrist, and Steven Souza, and not far beind Matt Holliday, Justin Upton, Jay Bruce, and Yasiel Puig.  Career OPS+ of 101, good speed, can play all 3 OF spots more or less average (one fluky bad year in 2009 accounts for near all of his negative dWAR).  What's that worth?  16 mil for 2 years? More?

Please don't use WAR and adjust it for PA.  It's not a good method for valuation of a player.  The examples you cited are a great example of why it doesn't work.  
 
De Aza is an okay player against RHP.  Dude isn't Jacoby Ellsbury. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

JBJ advocates are saying there's no fucking reason not to let him play when the difference between him an an all-star level OF right now is the Sox winning 74 games instead of 72.
 
Alejandro de Aza is 31 years old.  He is who he is.  No matter what playing time the Red Sox give him. 

That isn't the only difference though. You also have Castillo who you have invested $72m in and has had roughly 1/3 of the PA as JBJ over the past two seasons. Betts and Hanley are going to play, de Aza is producing and not going to be benched (even if some prefer this), and Castillo is going to see plenty of time too. He's had 600 PA.....what would we learn from 601-700 that we don't already know? Any uptick would be a true small sample.....not the first 600.

 

[Plympton91]

I'm as big a doubter as anybody, but you've got to give him more than a week. The problem, as others have noted, is that even if he dies manage to be competent over 150 ABs during garbage time, there's just no real signal there. I guess if they're both competent the rest of this year, going into next year with a platoon of Bradley and Castillo pencilled into RF isn't irresponsible. Though, that presumes they're still committed to Hanley in LF.

 

[moondog80]

Please don't use WAR and adjust it for PA.  It's not a good method for valuation of a player.  The examples you cited are a great example of why it doesn't work.  
 
De Aza is an okay player against RHP.  Dude isn't Jacoby Ellsbury. 

Obviously he's not Jacoby Ellsbury (or Yasiel Puig, Justin Upton, etc.) , I think salary I mentioned reflects that.  But adjusting WAR for PA (when the sample size is not trivial, DeAza has 257 PA) is a way of showing that when he does play (and there are lot of RHP out there), you're getting a pretty decent player.  One who will make a little bit of money this offseason.

 

[dynomite]

Possibly the worst thing to happen is JBJ get "hot" in his 50-100 PA down the stretch and allow him a longer rope to hang himself by while strangling the Sox offense in future years.

Yes, it would be such a shame if our Gold Glove caliber prospect figures out how to hit major league pitching and could be a trade chip or part of our 2016 plans.

I apologize for the sarcasm, but cmon. Given the state of the team, I'm happy for anyone to pitch, hit, or play defense well at the moment.

 

[moondog80]

That isn't the only difference though. You also have Castillo who you have invested $72m in and has had roughly 1/3 of the PA as JBJ over the past two seasons. Betts and Hanley are going to play, de Aza is producing and not going to be benched (even if some prefer this), and Castillo is going to see plenty of time too. He's had 600 PA.....what would we learn from 601-700 that we don't already know? Any uptick would be a true small sample.....not the first 600.

 
 
Carlos Gomez, Yadier Molina, and Ozzie Smith all spent years being crappy hitters before finding themselves.  Brett Gardner had an OPS+ of 70 after his first 425 PA.  People do get better with time.  And JBJ looks like he might be such a great CF that he really doesn't have to hit all that well to become an effective all around player.  So while I get why De Aza would think it's unfair, the fact is he's a free agent at the end of this year and very unlikely to come back, so the PA need to go to the player who is currently inferior, because players need PA in order to improve, and his track record of hitting in the minors & college leaves hope that he can become merely decent, which would be more than enough. 

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

That said, it seems awfully likely that the problem at this point is mental and that it might take a fresh start in another organization to fix it.

 
I've been a believer, but I think this is the point it's gotten to, unfortunately, especially since even if he plays really well between now and year's end, I don't think he'll displace Betts in center or Castillo in right (left doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense for him). I think Davis might have been able to help him over the course of a full season, but what can you do?

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Bradley should have been sent down last June, instead of playing for 2 more months when it was clear he was totally overmatched in the majors. 
 
He finished April with a .716 OPS, but by the end of May he was down to .599, and it went down from there. If his development as a player had been any sort of a consideration, much less a priority (or even if they had a somewhat defensively competent CF in AAA, or if they had picked one up in a trade) he would have been sent down then. Instead, he kept playing and kept flailing in the majors for at least 150 more PAs, and his season was a total loss. Not unlikely that his confidence in his ability to hit in the majors totally cratered. 
 
IMO, they really botched his development last year, and he might not be able to recover from it. I mean he is hitting .102 in 59 PAs this year. That can't be a physical skill issue. A guy hitting well in a AAA pitcher-dominated league hitting THAT badly in the majors majors? That's mental IMO. 

 

[rlsb]

In Beyond The Sixth Game, Gammons reviews the plight of Dwight Evans.  July 3, 1980 was his true date of finally learning how to hit, nearly 8 years from the day he first came up.  It takes time for some guys.  This is not to suggest that JBJ should get that amount of time, nor does it suggest that he now is the same hitter that Dewey was in the 1970s, but if Evans was as Gammons suggested in his book "an offensive defensive" outfielder that it appears JBJ now is, someone will give him the time to develop and I hope it is the Red Sox.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

The question we need to start asking ourselves is what is the acceptable level of offense to justify putting the elite defense on the field? Are we talking about a 240/300/350 slash line. More? Less? What amount of offense are you willing to sacrifice to get the D?

And when we arrive at that answer, does he, through scouting or stats, project to get there? If the answer is no, move him.

 

[moondog80]

In Beyond The Sixth Game, Gammons reviews the plight of Dwight Evans.  July 3, 1980 was his true date of finally learning how to hit, nearly 8 years from the day he first came up.  It takes time for some guys.  This is not to suggest that JBJ should get that amount of time, nor does it suggest that he now is the same hitter that Dewey was in the 1970s, but if Evans was as Gammons suggested in his book "an offensive defensive" outfielder that it appears JBJ now is, someone will give him the time to develop and I hope it is the Red Sox.

 
 
All due respect to Gammons but Dewey had an OPS+ of 122 in the seventies.  He was 93 over 328 PA  as a 21 year old rookie in 1973, after that his worst year was 109.  He did get better in the eighties, but he was pretty much always an above average hitter.

 

[Harry Hooper]

The question we need to start asking ourselves is what is the acceptable level of offense to justify putting the elite defense on the field? Are we talking about a 240/300/350 slash line. More? Less? What amount of offense are you willing to sacrifice to get the D?

And when we arrive at that answer, does he, through scouting or stats, project to get there? If the answer is no, move him.

 
 
The timing isn't great for JBJ in that he's trying to break in during a pitching-dominant era. That would seem to raise what's considered an acceptable level of production for him in that it's harder to hide weaker bats in a lineup.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

After Uehara, de Aza is the guy that I can least understand being on this team for the remainder of 2015.
 

 
They seem to like De Aza.  Maybe they want him to be part of the OF mix in 2016, in which case relegating him to the bench now isn't a smart move.  I'm assuming the Red Sox aren't gonig to spend money on the OF in the off-season.  Instead, the Red Sox's resources will probably go toward the pitching staff.  If that is the case, we might be looking at a 2016 OF of De Aza (LF), Betts (CF), Bradley Jr. (RF), with Runny Nose Castillo starting against lefties.  Of course, I'm working on the assumption that the Red Sox will move Hanley to 1b.
 
On the other hand, if De Aza isn't in the Red Sox's 2016 plans, it makes no sense to play him at this stage of the season.  If De Aza isn't in the Red Sox's 2016 plans, and the organization continues to play him, they are truly lost and in trouble.

 

[Pumpsie]

Players have to demonstrate some ability to adjust to higher levels.  Mookie, for example, has done this at every level.  You can see that he was not overmatched from the beginning in the majors and that he had the skillset to adjust to ML pitching...which he has done.  This is something JBJ has yet to demonstrate and he's three years older than Mookie, which is huge. 

Also, if you move Mookie from center, you diminish his value.  His greatest value is as a center fielder so that has to be included in any assessment of keeping JBJ and playing him in center.  He not only has to show enough value for himself but also for the lost value of playing Mookie in, say, left field. I have a very hard time seeing JBJ meeting those criteria, to tell you the truth.  It really does look like he's either going to be a 5th outfielder for the Sox or playing for another team.  In any case, getting his value up as far as possible and trading him for pitching might be the best play.   But, having Ben make the trade is a concern.