2014 Non-Celtic Offseason News and Rumors

luckiestman

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,908
There is a lot of cross talk on the threads about Parsons, Bosh and Houston so I'm interested to what people think Morey is going to do. Houston seemed like they had a chance of Howard/Bosh/Parsons/Harden to...looking like the 3rd worst roster in Texas if they dont match on Parsons. Is Luol Deng the answer?
 
Since this is the general thread, are any of you as bullish on the Mavs as I am. I think getting the two Chandlers really makes them a serious contender. If Rockets match is Deng then in play for the Mavs?
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
My projections are very high on the Mavs. I think they might be a legit low end contender, depending on how Marion and a few other free agents shake out, but they could be a mid to high 50s win team.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,837
Reardon's Beard

Reardon's Beard

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2005
3,798
I was under the impression Boozer was done in Chicago. If no S/T for Gasol that leaves them with Noah, Gasol, and Boozer, right? Can they amnesty or find a taker?
 
the1andonly3003

the1andonly3003

New Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,436
Chicago
Reardons Beard said:
I was under the impression Boozer was done in Chicago. If no S/T for Gasol that leaves them with Noah, Gasol, and Boozer, right? Can they amnesty or find a taker
Click to expand...
Reinsdorf is doing everything in his power to prevent amnestying Boozer
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,837
Reardons Beard said:
I was under the impression Boozer was done in Chicago. If no S/T for Gasol that leaves them with Noah, Gasol, and Boozer, right? Can they amnesty or find a taker?
Click to expand...
 
According to Eric Pincus (BBall insiders), in order to get Pau, the Bulls either (i) have to S&T - there are permutations with and without Boozer, depending on how much salary Pau wants or (ii) amnesty Boozer.
 
There are issues on the Lakers' side but I'm not familiar enough with their cap situation to comment on that.
 
Pincus goes through lots of the permutations in his recent tweets:  https://twitter.com/EricPincus.  Worth looking at if anyone is interested.
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Charlotte aggressively pursuing Lance Stephenson makes me sad, yet I can't figure out why. I'm not sure what they're supposed to be doing exactly. They have a bunch of decent pieces without much upside. They're like a less dysfunctional version of the Kings playing in an easier conference, but still feel very directionless. 
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
bowiac said:
Charlotte aggressively pursuing Lance Stephenson makes me sad, yet I can't figure out why. I'm not sure what they're supposed to be doing exactly. They have a bunch of decent pieces without much upside. They're like a less dysfunctional version of the Kings playing in an easier conference, but still feel very directionless. 
Click to expand...
I'm surprised you feel this way. Lance is a major upgrade over Henderson who Charlotte hesitated on last summer and the direction is an aggressive culture that they sorely need.

Charlotte needs scoring at the 2 and/or 4 if they plan on keeping MKG to matchup with high scoring 3's......otherwise they need to address the 3. I like Lance on that squad (and Hairston won't be long for this league anyway).
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
I agree Stephenson is an upgrade. He's a good player, and they're going to continue to improve as a team.
 
My point is really that their trajectory is well short of actually being a contender, they're too good to land high lottery picks, and they don't have any "big" assets that could either turn into a star, or could be traded for a star. (I guess Vonleh). Al Jefferson is good, so is Stephenson, but they're going to be paying them big bucks (if they get Lance), so it's not like they can be turned into much. MKG and Biyombo are okay, but neither one has really hinted they're about to turn into Kawhi Leonard or Serge Ibaka. I do like Kemba Walker, but as the Celtics are discovering with Rondo, PG isn't the place to have your best trade asset. 
 
They're rapidly entrenching themselves in the NBA's murky middle, without clearing future cap room or collecting loads of future picks or high upside talent to make a run at someone. That's what I mean by directionless. They're well primed for a four year run of being eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
bowiac said:
I agree Stephenson is an upgrade. He's a good player, and they're going to continue to improve as a team.
 
My point is really that their trajectory is well short of actually being a contender, they're too good to land high lottery picks, and they don't have any "big" assets that could either turn into a star, or could be traded for a star. (I guess Vonleh). Al Jefferson is good, so is Stephenson, but they're going to be paying them big bucks (if they get Lance), so it's not like they can be turned into much. MKG and Biyombo are okay, but neither one has really hinted they're about to turn into Kawhi Leonard or Serge Ibaka. I do like Kemba Walker, but as the Celtics are discovering with Rondo, PG isn't the place to have your best trade asset. 
 
They're rapidly entrenching themselves in the NBA's murky middle, without clearing future cap room or collecting loads of future picks or high upside talent to make a run at someone. That's what I mean by directionless. They're well primed for a four year run of being eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I lived in Charlotte during their first 5 years winning between 17 and 35 games in the Bob (Cat) Johnson era.....and in NC during the Shinn/Wooldridge fiasco. That was the very definition of directionless. Building a perennial EC playoff team out of that mess that Jordan inherited would be a significant change to where they have been over the past decade and a half. Not every franchises objective is to win a championship.....it's the ultimate goal of course but to a non-runner completing a 10k is an accomplishment and not to be dismissed simply because it isn't a 26.2 mile marathon.
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
I'm surprised the Rockets went 4 years on Ariza, but it's such low money that that deal is easy to move if another star becomes available. Especially in 2 years, $8M/year just won't be a big deal on the cap.
 
Nick Kaufman

Nick Kaufman

protector of human kind from spoilers
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2003
13,444
A Lost Time
I actually like that the Wizzards didn't overpay for Ariza. That's what they would have done in the past. They should get a short term solution, see if Otto Porter can play and save their money for some bigger free agent down the road.
 
jmm57

jmm57

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,487
Although he had a rotten rookie year (injuries and general suck), any chance Otto Porter gets a shot at those minutes? It seemed a lot of people were pretty high on him out of the draft.

Andddd Nick Kaufman beat me to it
 
Tony C

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,726
Ariza and Bosh both had TS% of 59% last year (well, Bosh was 59.7%) -- odd little coincidence there. Have always been an Ariza fan, one of those perfect complementary players with his top notch D and 3 point ability. 8 million per seems pretty reasonable, much better deal than Parsons at $15 million per. Still, I wonder if Morey doesn't double down on SFs and still match on Parsons....opens up possibilities for small ball. Not quite sure where they are on cap -- I know they can match Parsons regardless, but do they have money for one other signifcant signing if they get it done before matching on Parsons?
 
Much as it screwed the Rockets, I'm not sure Bosh was such a great signing for the Heat. Yeah, it keeps them in the hunt and any time you can sign a top player you generally have to seize the moment.  Bosh would have again been a perfect complement in Houston to Howard/Harden just as he was to LBJ/Wade -- that made him worth a max contract in my book for Houston. But with Wade's decline and LBJ's departure, that makes Bosh the main man -- in that situation is a max slot really best spent on a guy who seems more comfortable in a complementary role? The argument would be that he had to sublimate parts of his game and develop other parts (3 point shooting) to make it work, and that in Toronto he showed he could be the main guy. Time will tell and maybe he'll be the man.  But sounds like Miami will have a lot of money in guys like Bosh and Wade who aren't really fit to lead a club anywhere.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
bowiac said:
I'm surprised the Rockets went 4 years on Ariza, but it's such low money that that deal is easy to move if another star becomes available. Especially in 2 years, $8M/year just won't be a big deal on the cap.
Click to expand...
That is a steal getting Ariza for 4/$32m. It's great value now and as you said in two years that's going to be the MLE.

Big loss for the Wizards as they have nobody on their roster to play the 3 so pressure is on Grunfeld to make a move here.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Cellar-Door said:
The original rumor I think was Otto Porter and filler.
Click to expand...
If we move Jeff Green, a real live NBA player, for Otto Porter, who looked completely overwhelmed whenever I saw him last year and couldn't earn any minutes when I didn't i'll pull my hair out. Is Ainge trying to assemble the lowest upside youth on the market with him and Zeller?
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,952
HomeRunBaker said:
If we move Jeff Green, a real live NBA player, for Otto Porter, who looked completely overwhelmed whenever I saw him last year and couldn't earn any minutes when I didn't i'll pull my hair out. Is Ainge trying to assemble the lowest upside youth on the market with him and Zeller?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how either Porter or Zeller is low upside. Zeller's upside is legit starting C, Porter was the #3 pick in last year's draft, he was terrible in limited minutes last year, but that doesn't make him low upside, just makes it more likely he's a bust.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Cellar-Door said:
I'm not sure how either Porter or Zeller is low upside. Zeller's upside is legit starting C, Porter was the #3 pick in last year's draft, he was terrible in limited minutes last year, but that doesn't make him low upside, just makes it more likely he's a bust.
Click to expand...
Upside is about athleticism when the players skills haven't yet caught up. Zeller is 24 and already physically mature.....he is what he is, a backup 5 or marginal starter. A fungible piece to replace Kardashian who himself was fungible (hence my yawning at this trade). Porter can still fill out physically but lacks the elite athleticism to be considered a high upside guy. What are the chances he ever reaches Jeff Green's level? 25% maybe?
 
bowiac

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
the1andonly3003 said:
the first time around, the Rockets couldn't wait to get out of the Ariza contract
Click to expand...
He's definitely a backup plan for them- he had a great year last year shooting the ball, but the difference between a mid career breakout and a fluke is a fine one. Plus, while he's a good defender, I don't know anyone if thinks he's Paul George or something.

He's a nice get for them at they salary, and maybe he's a 40% guy now, but he may just end up being a rotation guy for them, rather than the answer to their Chandler Parsons question.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Brickowski said:
So, HomeRunBaker, what's your plan for Green? Just keep him around and then let his deal expire?
Click to expand...
You never should allow a $9m salary slot to expire worthless but Green is a productive player with value on the court. He's arguably our most irreplaceable player, which says a lot about this team, as we don't have another 3 on the roster not named Crash. That could change before training camp but right now we are very thin at that position even with Green.
 
R

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,759
HomeRunBaker said:
That is a steal getting Ariza for 4/$32m. It's great value now and as you said in two years that's going to be the MLE.

Big loss for the Wizards as they have nobody on their roster to play the 3 so pressure is on Grunfeld to make a move here.
Click to expand...
 
It's a steal for the Rockets if he repeats his 2013-2014 season for the duration of that contract.  But Ariza has been a tough guy to predict during his career, and is certainly capable of some serious clunkers (as the Rockets know very well).
 
8M/season isn't a crazy salary for him, but it still has the potential to be an overpay.  I wouldn't call it "a steal"**.  
 
 
**For the sake of full disclosure, I'm good friends with someone who played AAU ball with Ariza, and lets just say it doesn't surprise me that he is extra motivated in a contract year but tends to lose interest easily.  Though drawing any conclusions from 18 year old Trevor Ariza and applying them to 29 year old Trevor Ariza I admit is dubious at best.
 
Blacken

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
HomeRunBaker said:
You never should allow a $9m salary slot to expire worthless but Green is a productive player with value on the court. He's arguably our most irreplaceable player, which says a lot about this team, as we don't have another 3 on the roster not named Crash. That could change before training camp but right now we are very thin at that position even with Green.
Click to expand...
OK.

Who cares?

They suck. They are going to lose. Tanking or not, they will lose, and Jeff Green adds nothing in the interim.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Blacken said:
OK.

Who cares?

They suck. They are going to lose. Tanking or not, they will lose, and Jeff Green adds nothing in the interim.
Click to expand...
Of course he does. At the end of the day there is still a product to put on the floor and this is an entertainment business. Green is our most versatile defender and the only player to match up and compete against Durant, LeBron, Carmelo, Dirk, JJ, George, etc.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
You never should allow a $9m salary slot to expire worthless but Green is a productive player with value on the court. He's arguably our most irreplaceable player.
Click to expand...
Well, "salary slot" is a concept that got lost two CBAs ago. He has a 9M salary so with the new CBA he can theoretically be traded for a player making from $6M to $13.5M so long as both teams are under the apron. That's all.

One or two games out of four, he's productive. The rest of the time he's completely replaceable. He doesn't rebound well enough to play PF on any consistent basis, and SF is an easy position to fill. Green's defense would be missed, but even so I would have no problem with moving him for Otto Porter or a similar player. However, now that the Wiz have signed Pierce, I doubt if Washington would be interested.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Brickowski said:
Well, "salary slot" is a concept that got lost two CBAs ago. He has a 9M salary so with the new CBA he can theoretically be traded for a player making from $6M to $13.5M so long as both teams are under the apron. That's all.
Click to expand...
90% of the board still has drool from rolling over our TPE for Thornton's $8.6m expiring slot. Slots are far from worthless......without it, that $6-13.5m player can't be acquired otherwise.

If Otto is asked to matchup with the leagues best 3's every night for the Celtics that will be the day I switch channels to watch the Pelicans. There's a difference between putting a competitive product on the floor and that.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
TPE's are not a "slot." A TPE arises from the simple fact that teams have one year to complete a non-simultaneous trade. In a "simultaneous trade" (everything happens at once) a team can take back 150% of the salary it sends out (125% for taxpaying teams). In a non-simultaneous trade, it can only take back 100% (with a $100k fudge factor for both types of trades).

In the Pierce-Garnett deal a year ago, the Celtics sent out $10.3M more salary than they took in. So they had a year to complete the trade by adding up to $10.3 M in additional salary to complete the trade without having to send out any more.

That's not a "slot" and neither is Green's $9M.

BTW the Nets now have an $8.6M exception for Thornton that will expire on 7/12/15, and the Cavs have a much smaller exception for Zeller.
 
Devizier

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,608
Somewhere
Not to speak for HRB, but I think all of that is pretty well understood around these parts. "Slot" is being used figuratively because, as you well know, it's difficult to sign top-level players in free agency on account of the soft cap.
 
B

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
A TPE wont help sign away a top level player unless it's huge, because you can't combine it with other exceptions. To get a max salary player who is a free agent you need either enough cap space or sufficient matching salaries in a sign-and trade. There is no other way.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Brickowski said:
A TPE wont help sign away a top level player unless it's huge, because you can't combine it with other exceptions. To get a max salary player who is a free agent you need either enough cap space or sufficient matching salaries in a sign-and trade. There is no other way.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're arguing. Boston will never be in a position to sign a top tier FA by being under the cap as this provides zero flexibility to maneuver the way Ainge prefers. Green's salary "slot" can be used in this manner or in other ways to provide this flexibility......whether it be a max guy or a $6-13m dollar player.

In the case of our TPE it WAS flipped to create a slot and added flexibility that the TPE didn't provide. It may turn out to be meaningful but in Thornton's case probably not.
Edit: What Dev said.
 
Blacken

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
HomeRunBaker said:
Of course he does. At the end of the day there is still a product to put on the floor and this is an entertainment business. Green is our most versatile defender and the only player to match up and compete against Durant, LeBron, Carmelo, Dirk, JJ, George, etc.
Click to expand...
That's stupid. Nobody will be watching for three marginal wins. Nobody who's going to games will refrain because the inimitable Jeff Green is not on the team.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,409
Blacken said:
That's stupid. Nobody will be watching for three marginal wins. Nobody who's going to games will refrain because the inimitable Jeff Green is not on the team.
Click to expand...
Putting a competitive product on the floor is stupid? I'd argue they (now former) Sixers season ticket holders would disagree.
 
Grin&MartyBarret

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
HomeRunBaker said:
90% of the board still has drool from rolling over our TPE for Thornton's $8.6m expiring slot. Slots are far from worthless......without it, that $6-13.5m player can't be acquired otherwise.

If Otto is asked to matchup with the leagues best 3's every night for the Celtics that will be the day I switch channels to watch the Pelicans. There's a difference between putting a competitive product on the floor and that.
Click to expand...
You're right. Everybody is really excited about Thornton's expiring contract, and not the free first round pick Ainge got in the deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom