2015 Dolphins: Fire the Lazor!

SeoulSoxFan

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Oh Christ is BB out in Nantucket fishing already? You win a ring and already lazing off...
 
All kidding aside, that's a great move if it's a 3rd rounder or lower. No way it's a 1st (steal for Saints) and 2nd would be a get-even deal. 
 
Stills caught 78.8% catches with 14.8 yards/catch. 2.02 yards per route run, 21st best in the league according to PFF. 
 
It's not a good time to have a weak secondary. Oops. 
 

sodenj5

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FOR ELLERBE AND A THIRD?! HAHAHA, Tannenbaum you magnificent bastard!
 

pdaj

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SeoulSoxFan said:
 
Christ someone traded FOR Ellerbe? Can we get Sproles for Dobson?
 
Yeah. I'm shocked. I thought all the earlier Ellerbe trade talk stuff was delusional. Obviously, I love the deal for the Fins.
 
Edit: Anyone know what Ellerbe's remaining contract will look like for the Saints?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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63 catches on 83 targets for more than 900 yards at practically a league minimum contract for the next two years for Ellerbe and a third?  
 
For fuck's sake.  What are the Saints doing?  And if they are going to keep doing it, could they stop doing it with the non-Patriots in the NFC East?
 

sodenj5

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I'm stunned. Miami has Wallace and Stills on the outside. Landry in the slot. Cameron as the TE. Sweet jesus, Tannehill has zero excuses as far as weapons go,
 

mcaqua

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I love Stills.  Does this acquisition mean Wallace's time in Miami is done?  Isn't Stills a bit redundant for this offense with Wallace on the roster?
 

sodenj5

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mcaqua said:
I love Stills.  Does this acquisition mean Wallace's time in Miami is done?  Isn't Stills a bit redundant for this offense with Wallace on the roster?
 
I still don't see Wallace leaving this year. I think Stills is the obvious replacement for Wallace in 2016 and beyond.
 
Also, Brandin Cooks is really the guy the Saints want to build their offense around? I understand trading Graham away, but the Stills trade makes no sense to me from a Saints perspective.
 

Ed Hillel

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I think New Orleans is being run by monkeys at this point. What they are doing makes absolutely no sense on any level. That's a perfect trade for Miami.
 

Shelterdog

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Ed Hillel said:
I think New Orleans is being run by monkeys at this point. What they are doing makes absolutely no sense on any level. That's a perfect trade for Miami.
 
This certainly isn't helping Benson's argument in the Saints ownership litigation that he is mentally competent.
 

pdaj

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sodenj5 said:
 
I still don't see Wallace leaving this year. I think Stills is the obvious replacement for Wallace in 2016 and beyond.
 
Also, Brandin Cooks is really the guy the Saints want to build their offense around? I understand trading Graham away, but the Stills trade makes no sense to me from a Saints perspective.
 
I'd love to see Wallace hang on this year, but I could very well see this being the precursor to a Wallace trade/release. It'd free up about 7M in cap and (arguably) allow the Fins to fill some holes elsewhere/improve the team.
 

Ed Hillel

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pdaj said:
 
 
Love this. It's been well documented that Clay loves Miami; I figured Buffalo would have to blow him away. I'd be tickled if this gets done.
 
 
Looks like the team is creating a window, though, because they are deferring an awful lot of money down the line and they are going to have to deal with a legitimate QB salary starting next season. This year, they will be a definite threat, perhaps even for the AFC East. They are full of talent. It basically all hinges on Tannehill.
 

sodenj5

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It all makes sense now. I forgot that Jeff Ireland is working in New Orleans now. Seriously. I thought people were joking about that.
 

Marciano490

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Benson's family must be making these moves behind his back to show he's incompetent, right?  No way that's the best offer they could get for Stills or in the absence of other offers that trade was worth finalizing.  That's the kind of trade you pull off on the twelfth person your buddy's cousin ropes into joining your fantasy league because the draft is two days away and you're a person short.
 

sodenj5

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Seeing rumblings on Twitter that Miami isn't finished. That sounds like a Wallace trade to me, but who knows. That would allow them to sign Clay long term, but then WR moves back up on the priority list in the draft.

Also, while Stills may not be as fast as Wallace, he fights for the ball much better than Wallace does. He makes contested catches Wallace doesn't. He's also a fraction of the price of Wallace.
 

Marciano490

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Why would WR be a priority in the draft with Stills, Clay, Landry and Cameron?  Obviously, a true number 1 like Wallace would be great, but that seems like a pretty impressive arsenal, provided the TEs stay healthy.
 

sodenj5

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Marciano490 said:
Why would WR be a priority in the draft with Stills, Clay, Landry and Cameron?  Obviously, a true number 1 like Wallace would be great, but that seems like a pretty impressive arsenal, provided the TEs stay healthy.
Priority as in first or, likely, second round. They can take whomever they want in the first round, but would be wise to take someone like Strong in the second if he's around. Cameron is basically on a one year deal and Miami would still be lacking a legit #2 WR as Landry is best in the slot.
 

Clears Cleaver

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1. Wallace is gone after this season unless there is a massive restructuring, so Stills is his long-term replacement.
2. Cameron's deal is, in essence, a one-year deal the way its structured so Clay would still be a long-term answer at TE. he has only $5M guaranteed 
3. this has chance to be best dolphins offense since 84 (if they can block on the interior)
 
Needs by priority: 1) FS  2) OG  3) CB  4) ILB  5) backup QB  6) DE  7) special teams gunners 
 

Clears Cleaver

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what's become blatantly clear is that Tannebaum is running things and Philbin has absolutely no say in what's going on. The latter is completely fine with me
 
edit: Bills got HArvin....I suspect that means that Miai is closer to finalizing Clay. just a guess
 

TSC

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Clears Cleaver said:
1. Wallace is gone after this season unless there is a massive restructuring, so Stills is his long-term replacement.
2. Cameron's deal is, in essence, a one-year deal the way its structured so Clay would still be a long-term answer at TE. he has only $5M guaranteed 
3. this has chance to be best dolphins offense since 84 (if they can block on the interior)
 
Needs by priority: 1) FS  2) OG  3) CB  4) ILB  5) backup QB  6) DE  7) special teams gunners 
Did Miami trade for Brees without me knowing?

You still have an average at best asset at the most important position in the offense.
 

sodenj5

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Makes sense. Stills is a younger, much cheaper Wallace, and this frees them up to resign Clay long term.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Did Miami trade for Brees without me knowing?

You still have an average at best asset at the most important position in the offense.
 
I don't think you've seen Miami's offenses the last 30 years
 

sodenj5

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Wallace looking like he's going to be traded to Minnesota. What will they get in return?
 

Clears Cleaver

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Coradelle was on the block...lol. AP? lolol
 
Do they have any good linemen? or maybe a third round pick? :)
 

sodenj5

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I'm assuming a draft pick. Patterson is a talent but the reason he is on the block is because he can't pick up the offense and run routes. Not a great return.

Edit: Schefter says its a 5th rounder for Miami's 7th and Wallace. Welcome home, Clay.
 

jsinger121

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@AdamSchefter: Vikings traded 5th-round pick to Miami for WR Mike Wallace and 7th-round pick, per league source.
 

Clears Cleaver

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OK then...I hope this means Clay is staying
 
Now the needs: 1) FS  2) OG  3) CB  4) WR 5) ILB  5) backup QB  6) DE  7) special teams gunners 
 
I guess if Clay is coming back they will carry 4 WRs and 3 TEs minimum. 
 
I am not sure the team is any better right now than it was at the end of the year. They have to hit on their draft picks and find a starting FS and one other need before the draft. 
 
edit: wallace's remaining contract was not that awful. but whatever, he and RT never meshed like they have. now if it doesn't work with Stills, the blame has to go entirely on RT
 

pdaj

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And there it is ...
 
Wallace wasn't utilized to his full potential in Miami, but it was ultimately his attitude/personality conflict with the HC/QB that lead to this trade. There's a need now at WR -- we're young in experience -- but with Stills, Landry, Clay, and Cameron -- it isn't desperate times.
 
I mention Clay because I think that's the other shoe to drop.
 
Edit: I'd love to see another corner or a safety added soon, also.
 

Clears Cleaver

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The twitteratti seem to think Miami has cleared enough cap space to be pretty aggressive here on in in FA. who knows. But it seems they will keep Clay. Again, who knows.
 
I have lost track of their cap space at this point. 
 

rymflaherty

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This is one of the most encouraging 24 hours I can recall in quite some time.
 
I am still stunned by the New Orleans trade. I can;t believe they were able to trade Ellerbe, and ecstatic they found a young promising WR who can compliment Landry.
And while the team may have been better with Wallace, it was probably the right move to get out of that deal while you could.  It's not that he's bad, but his performance wasn't able to (and likely never was going to) match that contract.  And that doesn't even take into account the reports of his unrest with the OC and his role, we don't know if that really was an issue, but it did seem worrisome that it was occurring even when the team was winning.
 
I'm very pleased with how things have gone thus far...it seems I may have been too quick to criticize the Tannenbaum move.
I'm not sure who deserves the credit, or if they are truly operating as a symbiotic collective, but whatever the case, they are finally operating like a competent NFL front office.
 

pdaj

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rymflaherty said:
This is one of the most encouraging 24 hours I can recall in quite some time.
 
Dave Hyde agrees with you:
 
​Hyde: What's not to like about Dolphins' moves?
 
​1. Mike Wallace and a seventh-round pick was traded to Minnesota for a fifth-round pick. I was one of those thinking they had to keep Wallace. And if this trade was done by itself, it would have been a that's-so-Dolphins move. Dumping a very good talent to open up a hole on the roster? But you have to couple this trade with ...
 
2. Dannell Ellerbe and a third-round pick traded to New Orleans for receiver Kenny Stills. If you assemble these two trades together, it all makes sense. First, Stills is younger (23 in April), cheaper ($585,000 this year, $675,000 next year) and nearly as fast (4.38 in the 40 at the NFL combine compared to Wallace's 4.33) version of Wallace. Stills doesn't have Wallace's portfolio, but he did have 95 catches, nine touchdowns and a 16.2-yard average in his two seasons (admittedly with Drew Brees and a pass-happy offense).
 
Secondly, these trades get two expensive players off the books. Trading Ellerbe saves $5.65 million off the current cap. The Wallace trade saved $5.5 million. So a team that started free agency by buying Ndamukong Suh saves more than $11 million off the cap with these two trades.
 
Bottom-line: If Joe Philbin demanded Wallace be traded be, this is a great move by the front office. If not, it's still an understandable move due to the salaries involved. It was clear when Philbin benched Wallace their relationship might not survive. But unlike when the Dolphins made other moves (trading Vontae Davis in August, dumping Brandon Marshall for little) they fortified the roster for the missing player. We'll have to see why New Orleans dumped Stills. That's a head-scratcher for now. But as it is the Dolphins came out with a player who looks like a good replacement for the receiving corps.
 
3. Jordan Cameron was signed for two years, $15 million. The Dolphins and Cameron can say his three concussions over the past two seasons are no concern. The contract says otherwise. It's not really as advertised. It has $5 million guaranteed. It then pays Cameron $2.5 million for the next season on a play-for-pay basis - meaning he collects $156,250 for each game he plays. In other words, if he's injured, he doesn't collect. So it's really a one-year, injury-conscious deal with an option to pick up the second year for $7.5 million. So there's little risk by the Dolphins and both sides win if Cameron is the player he was when healthy. At 6-5, he's the big target this offense lacks. He also has good speed (4.59 in the 40 at the combine to Charles Clay's 4.74). His 17.2-yards-per catch average last year led all tight ends and his 10 touchdowns in 2013 did as well.
 
Of course, we have to wait and see how much the Dolphins really are counting on Jordan by what happens with Clay. The Dolphins, Buffalo and Clay seem to be playing a game of financial chicken right now. If the Dolphins get Clay back, they have potentially three tight ends with Dion Sims to give Bill Lazor some toys to play with.
 
The rest of the article is here: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde-blog/sfl-hyde5-dolphins-look-like-they-know-what-theyre-doing-20150313-story.html
 
 
 
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So Mike Wallace signs a lucrative FA deal and lands in Miami. A couple seasons later he goes from Miami to fucking Minnesota to play in an outdoor stadium. Bummer.
 

sodenj5

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
So Mike Wallace signs a lucrative FA deal and lands in Miami. A couple seasons later he goes from Miami to fucking Minnesota to play in an outdoor stadium. Bummer.
Brutal. He played in Pittsburgh so it's not like he has never seen snow, but the point is taken. That's about as opposite from Miami as it gets. Minnesota was actually the runner-up for Wallace two years ago. He famously left money on the table to come to Miami. Ouch.

Still unsure as to how Miami approaches the draft. The safety market is thin both in FA and the draft. Collins is a SS, basically a Reshad Jones clone. Miami needs a FS to complement Jones, not another guy that isnt great in coverage but is great against the run.

Some of it also hinges on what they do with Jordan. Do they move him to Sam? Then it's Jenkins-Misi-Jordan. You still want to look for a LB, but you're looking second or third round if you're moving Jordan.

Miami also freed up a bunch of money. They can plug some of their holes with tier 2 free agents. It will be interesting to see how they spend their money the next few days.
 

Clears Cleaver

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They no longer have a third. That might have been where u could find a guard good enough to start. Do they take that 5th they acquired and trade it for Mathis?

$11m for Parker, Mathis and a backup CB. That would work.

Then draft first round and second round take best player available
 

sodenj5

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Clears Cleaver said:
They no longer have a third. That might have been where u could find a guard good enough to start. Do they take that 5th they acquired and trade it for Mathis?

$11m for Parker, Mathis and a backup CB. That would work.

Then draft first round and second round take best player available
Everything I've heard is they love Billy Turner and expect him to be a starting guard this year. Is Dallas Thomas good enough to start at guard? It's clear he is not a tackle. He looks decent at guard but they keep moving him around so frequently it's hard to tell.

A name I've seen floating around is Crabtree for the Fins. Makes a ton of sense. His market value is low right now, but if he's healthy, he's a perfect fit for this offense. Savvy route runner, great hands, great compliment to what's already in place.
 

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pdaj said:
And there it is ...
 
Wallace wasn't utilized to his full potential in Miami, but it was ultimately his attitude/personality conflict with the HC/QB that lead to this trade. There's a need now at WR -- we're young in experience -- but with Stills, Landry, Clay, and Cameron -- it isn't desperate times.
 
I mention Clay because I think that's the other shoe to drop.
 
Edit: I'd love to see another corner or a safety added soon, also.
 
Weren't you on the "Wallace has a great attitude" bandwagon like two weeks ago?
 

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sodenj5 said:
Seeing rumblings on Twitter that Miami isn't finished. That sounds like a Wallace trade to me, but who knows. That would allow them to sign Clay long term, but then WR moves back up on the priority list in the draft.

Also, while Stills may not be as fast as Wallace, he fights for the ball much better than Wallace does. He makes contested catches Wallace doesn't. He's also a fraction of the price of Wallace.
so... That was pretty prescient.
 

Shelterdog

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pdaj said:
I was alluding to the HC/team's perception of his attitude. My perception is irrelevant.
 
So when I said your claim that Wallace had a great attitude was pure wishcasting I guess I was,well, completely right. 
 

pdaj

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Shelterdog said:
 
So when I said your claim that Wallace had a great attitude was pure wishcasting I guess I was,well, completely right. 
 
The consistent report in Miami was this: Philbin wanted Wallace gone, Lazor/Hickey wanted Wallace to stay, and Tannenbaum was neutral. Additionally, Wallace's teammates loved him, and as I mentioned prior, he was constantly applauded as being one of the hardest workers throughout the season. 
 
Philbin didn't like Vonte Davis' attitude, either; yet, he's flourishing in Indy. As is Dansby in AZ/Cleveland. 
 
I would have been "wishcasting" had I suggested Philbin and Wallace would mend fences. But if it feels good for you to write a checkmark in your Sosh notebook, feel free.