Ya he is the 2nd best QB in the division.Clears Cleaver said:
anyone have a scouting report on garoppolo?
Ya he is the 2nd best QB in the division.Clears Cleaver said:
anyone have a scouting report on garoppolo?
jsinger121 said:Ya he is the 2nd best QB in the division.
Odds are better than he'll kill Tannehill while pulling out the stadium parking lot some afternoon.Clears Cleaver said:Two shots a year to end Brady's career. Totally worth it
Otherwise, ehhh. So many holes to fill.
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:Irresponsible, roster-busting contract when you don't have even an elite-ish QB in place. Miami will be better, Suh is awesome, but it's a road to nowhere until they fix QB. I like Tannehill but they're not going to a Super Bowl on his arm.
Shelterdog said:
Miami has a top heavy roster and a shitload of holes. I'm not sure they are better, particularly if they have bad injury luck.
Those are actually fair points. I don't mean to rain on the Suh parade, and it's true that you improve sometimes with Big Fat Moves like that one. Just think it's a little risky given Tannehill. Think your draft strategy is wise, as well. And I'll say this, I'm not looking fwd to TB12 facing that Miami front line next year.sodenj5 said:I agree that the people cut this far were relative dead weight last year. I would much rather have one Suh over a combined Hartline, Gibson, Wheeler, and Ellerbe and possibly Starks.
Now that Suh is basically in the fold, I still think they go WR in round one of the draft if one of the big 3 is available, and MLB in round 2.
Just trying to make the point that sometimes "spreading the wealth" doesn't get you any further than splashing the cash on one guy.Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:Those are actually fair points. I don't mean to rain on the Suh parade, and it's true that you improve sometimes with Big Fat Moves like that one. Just think it's a little risky given Tannehill. Think your draft strategy is wise, as well. And I'll say this, I'm not looking fwd to TB12 facing that Miami front line next year.
I'm making the same argument re Revis at 16 mill vs. spreading those dollars around.sodenj5 said:Just trying to make the point that sometimes "spreading the wealth" doesn't get you any further than splashing the cash on one guy.
I made the point earlier that Suh not only fills what was a big hole for Miami, but he makes their entire defense better, something that can't be said for Starks, Odrick, or Danny Shelton.
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:I'm making the same argument re Revis at 16 mill vs. spreading those dollars around.
I doubt it. For as bad as his career has started, he's still only going into his third year. I think they're going to try and stick with him at DE. Worst case scenario, he is a good insurance policy if Vernon leaves next offseason.pdaj said:Part of me wonders if Dion Jordan could get traded. If the Dolphins add a MLB, they'd need to trade either Jordan or Misi. There is no point in having a three-way competition with guys as capable as Koa Misi, Dion Jordan and Chris McCain, all of them fighting for a linebacker position that will play 500-600 snaps at most. As one of my favorite twitter people pointed out recently, that's like having Paul Soliai, Danny Shelton and Damon Harrison all fighting for the role of nose tackle in a 3-4 defense.
I'm sorry, but this is an insane move for a team with too many holes. The Ravens had a pretty good DL last year and look what Brady did against them. In this current NFL, RBs and DL don't make a huge amount of difference - particularly if a QB can get the ball out quickly, and AFC East teams have decided to go all-in on DL and RBs.Just trying to make the point that sometimes "spreading the wealth" doesn't get you any further than splashing the cash on one guy.
I made the point earlier that Suh not only fills what was a big hole for Miami, but he makes their entire defense better, something that can't be said for Starks, Odrick, or Danny Shelton.
Miami Dolphins: A
The Dolphins have landed the biggest free-agent prize of the 2015 offseason in Suh (reportedly for $116 million, with $60 million guaranteed), an aggressive acquisition that moves them closer to the perennial AFC East champion New England Patriots. Setting the money aside, the Dolphins add one of the league's most disruptive interior pass-rushers, as Suh has ranked in the top 10 in PFF pass rush grade each of the past four seasons, including a plus-14.8 mark last season that ranked seventh among defensive tackles.
Perhaps most impressive about Suh's game has been his improvement against the run, transforming himself from below average as a rookie (minus-9.3 grade) to second-best in 2014 (plus-18.1). His career-high run stop percentage of 9.7 ranked sixth among defensive tackles, as Suh continues to develop as a playmaker in all aspects of the game.
Suh's aggressive play is well known around the league -- his 10 penalties tied for the league lead among defensive tackles in 2014 -- but it's a risk worth taking given the rest of his skill set. While the defensive line was strong in Miami last season, it struggled down the stretch, and Suh provides a rare, every-down presence with a unique ability to take over the game like few defensive tackles.
pdaj said:
But these were the same holes they had last year. Every player cut thus far, either didn't play last year (injury), or significantly underperformed. Hartline and Gibson combined for 68 catches last season, and less than 250 YAC. Ellerbe was lost after the 1st game, Finnegan missed the last quarter of the year, and Wheeler saw less than 30% of the defensive snaps. Delmas was a great add in FA last year, but his season ended ended in the 13th game of the year.
If Suh does sign, Odrick (FA) and Starks (6M/1m guaranteed) are expendable. The Fins will then need help at G, WR, LB, CB, and S. I think last year's WR production can be replaced cheaply, with the CB hole potentially being the most costly. Misi, Jenkins, McCain, and Jordan are in the mix at LB, but the word is someone like Mason Foster will be targeted.
I'm most concerned about the OL, however. Will Brandon Albert be fully recovered by the start of the season? Is the staff expecting Billy Turner to fill in at G? And Dallas Thomas or Shelly Smith at the other G? Protecting Tannehill has to be #1, as it's the key to his progression.
I'd be really bummed if we lost Charles Clay. He's a good TE reaching FA at the perfect time.
Shelterdog said:
Um, yes, that's the point. The team had a lot of holes last year and there's nothing in store to fix most of them, and the effort to shed salary is creating even more holes. Hartline, for example, might be a disappointment but he's just not that easy to replace:you can't count on finding a Landry in the middle rounds of the draft.
With the Dolphins spending much of their free-agent money on defense, executive vice president/football operations Mike Tannenbaum implied to me last week that guard and running back don’t need much attention in free agency. “Lamar Miller played very well, high character, very productive,” Tannenbaum said. And “there are a couple of young guards on the team that a lot of people in the building feel good about --- Dallas Thomas, Billy Turner… Shelley Smith… There's a lot of good young offensive linemen.”
The sense here is the Dolphins prefer not to pay as much to a backup quarterback as they paid Matt Moore last season ($4 million). Moore appears behind Brian Hoyer in the pecking order of teams shopping for a veteran quarterback who can compete to start. Asked if the Dolphins want to re-sign Moore, Tannenbaum said: “He’s played well. We would like to keep as many of the good players as we can but you can't keep them all. He's a guy we've talked to. We'll see where it goes.”
The Dolphins have reached out on several corners, but the top ones are off the market (Brandon Flowers, Kareem Jackson, Byron Maxwell) and they likely cannot afford Darrelle Revis if the Patriots don't keep him under his current contract by a looming deadline. Patrick Robinson, Robert McClain and Buster Skrine are among possibilities. Antonio Cromartie might be the most accomplished name still left in free agency at the position. But the Dolphins, with the huge paycheck to Ndamukong Suh, don't have the money to spend on a high-end corner. Figure on them signing one or two who can start or compete to start with Jamar Taylor and potentially a first or second-day draft pick.
In some ways it's a bigger bet, because Jay Cutler is unlikely to get suspended by the NFL for on-field actions.PedroKsBambino said:I mean, it's a lot better bet than Jay Cutler's contract (7/$126 mil with $54m guaranteed). But it sure is a huge bet on a DL.
Why? With Wallace and Landry, that's their strongest position, no? What good does it do to have the modern version of Givens, Jeffries, and Hill if you don't have a Moon at QB?sodenj5 said:I agree that the people cut this far were relative dead weight last year. I would much rather have one Suh over a combined Hartline, Gibson, Wheeler, and Ellerbe and possibly Starks.
Now that Suh is basically in the fold, I still think they go WR in round one of the draft if one of the big 3 is available, and MLB in round 2.
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:I think the worst news for the dolphins in that story is the reminder that Tannenbaum is so close to in charge.
Devizier said:It's a good move for the 'Fins. Where they are now, they need to take a high risk to have a chance at the division in the next few years. They didn't trade any draft picks so if Suh doesn't work out they can always keep building.
One of the holes on this team is/was DT. This team absolutely collapsed on the middle of the defense at the end of the year last year. Teams were running up insane rushing totals against Miami. Odrick is a very good player, and Starks was productive considering his age, but they both fell off a cliff on the second half. Miami is plugging a big hole with one of the best defensive players in the league.Shelterdog said:
Um, yes, that's the point. The team had a lot of holes last year and there's nothing in store to fix most of them, and the effort to shed salary is creating even more holes. Hartline, for example, might be a disappointment but he's just not that easy to replace:you can't count on finding a Landry in the middle rounds of the draft.
ivanvamp said:Suh and Wake on the same DLine is going to be a royal pain in the butt for the Patriots.
Maybe one or two. I actually think Miami needs to start using him more as a rotational pass rusher, starting this year. It's clear Wake wears down by the end of they year. Let Jordan and Shelby take some of Wake's snaps and turn Wake loose on third downs.jsinger121 said:
Ya until you realize Wake is 33 already. How many great years does he have left.
The whole division is going to present challenges to the interior OL. But the Pats get good linemen in the draft. That's what they do.jsinger121 said:
Ya until you realize Wake is 33 already. How many great years does he have left.
Its a lot of money, but you could argue its a very logical move for a team that has as many issues at LB as this team does (fresh off unloading Phil Wheeler and Dannell Ellerbe). You can't afford to completely overhaul the secondary, LB core and WR core in one offseason with a finite set of resources. MLB just became a much easier position to play in Miami.wade boggs chicken dinner said:I'm sorry, but this is an insane move for a team with too many holes. The Ravens had a pretty good DL last year and look what Brady did against them. In this current NFL, RBs and DL don't make a huge amount of difference - particularly if a QB can get the ball out quickly, and AFC East teams have decided to go all-in on DL and RBs.
Unbelievable.
The Dolphins keep splashing the pot with FA signings, and they don't get any better.
Is Steve Ross basically just another Dan Snyder?
The secondary doesn't need a complete overhaul. Jones and Grimes will be back. They need a FS and CB. One of either Taylor or Davis can step up and fill the CB gap. My money would be on Taylor. He was flashing before getting hurt, which is probably his biggest issue. LB is set at WLB in Jenkins and SLB with Misi. They need a MLB and I've been saying they can target one in the second round.TheMoralBully said:You don't have to overhaul your secondary, LB core and WR core in one offseason, especially when you're a team that's dead average in point diff and by DVOA and not entirely sold on your QB. 60/mil over the next three years for a non-QB just seems really short-sighted and prohibitive, and I don't see this radical trickle down effect into the LB core and secondary from a DT; this isn't JJ Watts. I don't know, I doubt Suh's going to be a Haynesworth situation, he's a very good player and only 28. But this seems like what has shown to be the worst form of roster building.
mcaqua said:Its a lot of money, but you could argue its a very logical move for a team that has as many issues at LB as this team does (fresh off unloading Phil Wheeler and Dannell Ellerbe). You can't afford to completely overhaul the secondary, LB core and WR core in one offseason with a finite set of resources. MLB just became a much easier position to play in Miami.
Further, I'd have to question anyone who didn't feel something drastic needed to be done with the front seven after they were literally shredded on the ground down the stretch last season. The unit was broken. This signing should go a long way towards rectifying that issue.
TheMoralBully said:You don't have to overhaul your secondary, LB core and WR core in one offseason, especially when you're a team that's dead average in point diff and by DVOA and not entirely sold on your QB. 60/mil over the next three years for a non-QB just seems really short-sighted and prohibitive, and I don't see this radical trickle down effect into the LB core and secondary from a DT; this isn't JJ Watts. I don't know, I doubt Suh's going to be a Haynesworth situation, he's a very good player and only 28. But this seems like what has shown to be the worst form of roster building.
mcaqua said:
You don't see how Suh will have a trickle down effect on LB and/or secondary play? I disagree on a very fundamental level.
Also, who is not entirely sold on Tannehill? He might not be a future HOFer, but he's proven to be an above average player at the position and a guy capable of winning.
Shelterdog said:
The logical move for a team with a lot of holes is to try and fill a lot of those holes.
The question isn't whether Suh is an improvement over what they had at DT---he is, although the gap may be smaller than you hope if Odrick leaves--or whether he's better than the godawful 2012 free agents who are getting cut. It's whether the Suh contract is the best way to improve the team. I think the answer is that he is not, that you'd be a lot better off using the money to resign some of your better players like Clay and using the rest to pick off some third tier free agents to fill the many, many holes on the roster.
mcaqua said:
You could argue it is a very effective way of improving the team. Look, I'm not going to sit here and defend this front office and their personnel decisions as they've been proven to be wrong time and again over the better part of the last two decades. That said, the run defense down the stretch last year was abysmal. LB play was poor and the pass rush was non-existent. In fact, I remember in your post-mortem wrap up of this team, you felt like the D (in particular) was about set to spring a couple of additional holes with age-related decline of both Grimes and Wake (something I happened to agree with).
So how do you fix it moving forward? What's the superior alternative? How do you stem the tide of a decline in overall defensive play and set it back on a path of productivity and promise? I'm not sure how investing in a couple of complementary pieces in FA along the front seven is going to alleviate some of the horrific play this defense exhibited last season. With this move, your run defense improves, your interior pass rush improves and you set the stage for an improvement in MLB play. It certainly doesn't fix every hole on the team, but the defense is unquestionably better, isn't it?
wade boggs chicken dinner said:The Dolphins keep splashing the pot with FA signings, and they don't get any better.
Is Steve Ross basically just another Dan Snyder?
TheMoralBully said:Far enough on Tannehill. I thought opinion was more divided on him here and with the Dolphin's. I think he has shown enough to back.
Corsi said:
Chris Perkins @chrisperk 4m4 minutes ago
#Dolphins DT Jared Odrick agrees to terms with Jacksonville http://fw.to/Yci7OZW
mcaqua said:
So how do you fix it moving forward? What's the superior alternative? How do you stem the tide of a decline in overall defensive play and set it back on a path of productivity and promise? I'm not sure how investing in a couple of complementary pieces in FA along the front seven is going to alleviate some of the horrific play this defense exhibited last season. With this move, your run defense improves, your interior pass rush improves and you set the stage for an improvement in MLB play. It certainly doesn't fix every hole on the team, but the defense is unquestionably better, isn't it?
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
As SD notes above, they could have gotten Wilfork plus signed McPhee for versatility and have a tremendous amount left over. Hell, they probably could get Ngata (if the Ravens cut him; not out of the possibility) and McPhee for 2/3rds of that.
In today's NFL, giving a DL that kind of money makes no sense at all. Plus, when they resign Tannehill, the two of them are going to have what, 20% of the cap? Is that a good idea?
sodenj5 said:Maybe one or two. I actually think Miami needs to start using him more as a rotational pass rusher, starting this year. It's clear Wake wears down by the end of they year. Let Jordan and Shelby take some of Wake's snaps and turn Wake loose on third downs.
Absolutely. He probably gains the most by Suh coming on board and is conveniently entering the last year of his deal. He's a definite starter though. He will have his own share of snaps. I'm talking about dividing Wake's snaps to keep him fresher.Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Why are people leaving Vernon out of the equation? Suh's going to really impact Vernon on the field, and I could see him getting back into double digits on sacks pretty easily next year.