Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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Shelterdog

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No.  And they didn't mean that with it capitalized.  Borges just wanted to name check a neighborhood that the rest of the country thinks is gritty.
and the name checking was to add color to the preposterous claim that the pats had s tip top security squad in the 1990s that went to shit because one ex cop got canned a decade ago. There's no way in hell the team was on top of everything in 1992 and there's no way in hell they don't have some tied in guys working for the team now.
 
Shelterdog said:
and the name checking was to add color to the preposterous claim that the pats had s tip top security squad in the 1990s that went to shit because one ex cop got canned a decade ago. There's no way in hell the team was on top of everything in 1992 and there's no way in hell they don't have some tied in guys working for the team now.
 
With how quickly he was cut as the indictment came down, yeah, they have some tied in guys working for the team.
 

mandro ramtinez

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http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/08/in_rolling_stone_piece_belichick_and_kraft_are_sho.html
 
"It depends on when we're talking about it. I certainly think that they were within their rights to draft the guy. Even though that no one else was racing to beat them to that fourth-round pick. But I think once they did so, it was really incumbent upon them to assign him a big brother. To put somebody on him like Urban Meyer did at Florida -- not that that was brilliantly effective, but at least he had some kind of monitoring system with the Pouncey twins and [Tim] Tebow. With the Patriots, the idea that he was going to be big brothered by a veteran -- if that in fact was ever the intent -- was never carried out."
 
Solotaroff did an interview with Boston.com today and offered this risible nonsense.  That Pouncey/Tebow mentorship certainly steered AH away from possibly shooting someone during his time at UF.  Or not, in the least. 
 

soxfan121

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caesarbear said:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/08/in_rolling_stone_piece_belichick_and_kraft_are_sho.html
 
Paul Solotaroff:
Bristol was my beat. Ron did the lion's share of Boston. I went up there several times. Met with Odin Lloyd's people, friends, extended family.
But Ron did most of the heavy reporting on the Pats, on the interactions between Hernandez and Belichick this last offseason, the details about what happened out there in California when he was allegedly rehabbing but really just smoking a bunch of angel dust.
 
In other words, almost all the salacious details were Borges. I wonder if Solotaroff knows to whom he's hitched his wagon. 
 
Myt1 said:
No.  And they didn't mean that with it capitalized.  Borges just wanted to name check a neighborhood that the rest of the country thinks is gritty.
 
It's like a baby Gary, Indiana!
 
Shelterdog said:
and the name checking was to add color to the preposterous claim that the pats had s tip top security squad in the 1990s that went to shit because one ex cop got canned a decade ago. There's no way in hell the team was on top of everything in 1992 and there's no way in hell they don't have some tied in guys working for the team now.
 
Alex Marvez posted a piece on this two months ago that contains many quotes and facts from the Director of NFL Security including this:
 
Miller said his security staff has extensive ties with local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. He also employs more than 70 independent contractors in every NFL city as well as Los Angeles, Las Vegas and Hawaii that help in the fact-finding process.
 
 

kolbitr

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I am a bit surprised that so many people have been so complimentary of Paul Solotaroff here and in the media, although I suppose that some of the latter is just the usual sops journalists throw at each other--and that's fine. But while it is an okay article for what it is, it's not really groundbreaking and is it certainly weakly-sourced. Solotaroff is a competent writer and has immensely leathery skin and enormous chutzpah, which is pretty much de rigeur for an investigative journalist, so all well and good. And he has demonstrated that he has three main interests: New York, sports, and drugs, especially the interplay between the latter two. It is no suprise that the most interesting new details to come from the story are PCP use, and the Bristol connections. But there is also a great deal of the article that is speculative, to the point that it reads as if he decided that a certain version of the story was certainly plausible, and that was enough.
 
His interview published today with the Globe's Zuri Berry (one of the paper's rather more callow reporters, frankly) is troubling, and demonstrates a rather schizoid version of events. On the one hand, he pegs Hernandez as having been a 'model citizen' until about 13–14 months ago, when his PCP use allegedly began. On the other hand, BB is responsible for callously and arrogantly enabling a thug for his own glory. Kraft should 'hold his feet to the fire' for failing to police Hernandez and 'the other thugs he has been drafting and trading for'; through his own 'machinations' he has collected all power, and 'sabotaged' the team's security crew, etc etc. He admits however, that none of this is owing to his own work, but is rather entirely Borges' sourcing--and it is laughable to think of Borges doing the 'lion's share' of 'heavy reporting' on this or any story (yes, Solotaroff likes to use vapid clichés when speaking). And some of these claims are ridiculous. Frank Mendes has been gone for 10 years--soon we will be told that Aaron Hernandez's drug use, Adalius Thomas' lack of flying ability, Rob Gronkowski's drinking, video camera abuse, and yes Wes Welker's stiffing are a result of poor Frank Mendes being fired all those years ago, and Belichick hiring a smarty-tech guy (a Brit no less!) to coddle and soothe his gigantic ego.
 
Solotaroff did a decent job with his side of things, and brought to light some new and valuable nuggets of information, and maybe one telltale heart (PCP). The fact that he must now defend the more-laughable parts of his story, even when he looks foolish doing so, is simply part of the job.
 
I'm not claiming there isn't blame and quasi-tragedy here--I think that the truth is most certainly as Wilde said, though, and the desire, in the name of sensationalism (or in the service of a vendetta, ahem) to simplify the narrative into a Manichean chronicle is a disservice, and both bad writing and thinking.
 
And Borges is a cheap hack. His thuggish twitter personality is most telling. Anyone who claims to enjoy his columns unconditionally I suspect of moving their lips when they read.
 
Edit: beaten to the punch by mandro and soxfan...
 

Van Everyman

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I'm surprised no one here has commented in the article's most salacious assertion: that Belichick was the one who convinced Hernandez to rent the flop house.
 

kolbitr

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Van Everyman said:
I'm surprised no one here has commented in the article's most salacious assertion: that Belichick was the one who convinced Hernandez to rent the flop house.
Bedard commented about that on Twitter. He felt that BB suggested he rent a second apartment after AH said he feared for his life. He seemed to think it was a plausible response to what the team probably felt was a strange overreaction to some event. Unfortunately with the off-season no one got to properly ascertain the extent of his paranoia.
 
Edit: In other words, I don't think it was meant to imply that BB advised him to get a 'flophouse' so he could use drugs and hook up in relative peace.
 

Leather

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I just reject the premise that teams, coaches, or whomever is somehow under an obligation to monitor the personal activities of players beyond how they manifest themselves in on-field performance.

To suggest otherwise is just absurd, and is a standard that I've never seen applied in another situation. Not Ray Lewis, not Kobe Bryant, not anybody.

In many states, for fuck's sake, it's ILLEGAL for an employer to take action against an employee for drinking or smoking on the employee's personal time. While this obviously doesn't extend to illegal drugs or violent crime, it demonstrates that society, generally speaking, DOES NOT WANT employers meddling with how employees spend their time away from the job. Why the New England Patriots are somehow being held as partially responsible for Aaron Hernandez killing someone, in the off season no less, is just through-the-looking glass to me.
 

Van Everyman

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Bedard commented about that on Twitter. He felt that BB suggested he rent a second apartment after AH said he feared for his life. He seemed to think it was a plausible response to what the team probably felt was a strange overreaction to some event. Unfortunately with the off-season no one got to properly ascertain the extent of his paranoia.

Edit: In other words, I don't think it was meant to imply that BB advised him to get a 'flophouse' so he could use drugs and hook up in relative peace.

Bedard also says that he had heard something similar but didn't report it because he heard only one side of the story from someone who probably wasn't there, as the conversation was between BB and AH.

To Leather's point, it just seemed like Borges was purposely stoking the flames. Lest we forget, his whole "flop house" thing had been the big mystery piece of this story since we learned football players went there. "Were Patriots players there?" "Which ones?" And now, "It was Belichick's idea all along! The Patriots ARE responsible!"
 

soxfan121

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theapportioner said:
Next we'll hear that Belichick was dealing Hernandez angel dust.
 
I just read that somewhere. If only there were a media member reading this thread!
 

kenneycb

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soxfan121 said:
 
Entirely fair. Of course, you went verbose whereas kenneycb summed it up in five words.
 
 
Forget it, Myt1...it's Chinatown.
I could only speak intelligently about the strip club part.
 

Harry Hooper

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kolbitr said:
I am a bit surprised that so many people have been so complimentary of Paul Solotaroff here and in the media, although I suppose that some of the latter is just the usual sops journalists throw at each other--and that's fine. But while it is an okay article for what it is, it's not really groundbreaking and is it certainly weakly-sourced. Solotaroff is a competent writer and has immensely leathery skin and enormous chutzpah, which is pretty much de rigeur for an investigative journalist, so all well and good. And he has demonstrated that he has three main interests: New York, sports, and drugs, especially the interplay between the latter two. It is no suprise that the most interesting new details to come from the story are PCP use, and the Bristol connections. But there is also a great deal of the article that is speculative, to the point that it reads as if he decided that a certain version of the story was certainly plausible, and that was enough.
 
It's certainly served Michael Lewis well in his career.
 

VORP Speed

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While this is just rumor (I assume) PCP use goes quite a ways toward explaining this whole situation, especially in conjunction with thug-life and AH's basic psychology (whatever that may be.) 
 
Most notably, for the AH situation, it's a "dissociative" anesthetic which can exacerbate sometimes latent mental illness, as well as sometimes causing paranoia and a "distance" effect from one's actions.  From what I've seen people really do flip out on this stuff.  Not all the time - but it occurs. 
 
While PCP use seems pretty rare now-a-days (I think of it as a 70s/80s thing) It's around, and I occasionally run into it in a criminal law context.  PCP use often overlaps with some of the more hardcore MJ user subsets, some of them juveniles, mostly urban.  It's smoked by dipping cigs or MJ joints into a liquid PCP solution (you buy the "dippers" pre-dipped as it were - you don't buy the liquid).  Depending on who is doing the concentration or the actual dipping, the dosage (and effects) can vary widely depending on the batch you get.
 
General overview/history on PCP: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/pcp/effects.html
 
Here's one on recent PCP use in Philly: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/04/22/pcp-the-new-rise-of-a-drug-that-turns-teens-crazy.html
 
(I often thought the Miami Cannibal was on PCP (the taking off of the clothing, the psychotic violence) but he apparently tested clean during a tox screening.)
Working in inner city Hartford ERs in the late 90s/early 00s, I saw a shitload of PCP related issues. It's the illy, man. Dude's been smoking the illy. It was the default diagnosis for anyone who came in out of their damn mind. I never really thought about it before, but I don't remember ever seeing much of it in inner city ERs in FL. Why the heck PCP would uniquely flourish in the fertile soil of Hartford/New Britain/Bristol is beyond me. You will never see a human being do crazier shit than when they've been using PCP, though, that's a fact.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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drleather2001 said:
I just reject the premise that teams, coaches, or whomever is somehow under an obligation to monitor the personal activities of players beyond how they manifest themselves in on-field performance.

To suggest otherwise is just absurd, and is a standard that I've never seen applied in another situation. Not Ray Lewis, not Kobe Bryant, not anybody.
 
A-men. I could not agree more. 
 
Back to the article itself, I don't reject the article as a whole, nor "hate" it in some fandom-ish way. 
 
I do think that there is a lot of unsubstantiated rumors and hearsays that fail (at least my) standard of investigative journalism (and this piece is certainly written in that manner), as salacious and macabrely entertaining as it was to read. 
 
Now Borges is a man who, after BB finally hangs it up, will gleefully be writing "3 SBs but Legacy is Forever Tarnished" article finger-typing with one hand and his dick in the other. 
 
The fact that Ron Borges is behind substantial part of the Patriots side of the "reporting" makes me read it with a bushel full of salt. 
 

Van Everyman

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Ben Volin takes a hatchet to the piece in today's Globe:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/08/29/rolling-stone-piece-aaron-hernandez-has-lots-fact-and-some-fiction/jKClatSOIslEC635PcROqL/story.html
 

NortheasternPJ

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Not to mention that Mendes was fired 10 fucking years ago. It's not like Mendes was fired and the very next month Hernandez was out shooting up the Roxy.
 
So Borges is probably buddies with Mendes, was pissed to see him fired, already had a bone to pick with the organization (obviously) and used this as an opportunity to take another shot at the Patriots, what a surprise for Borges.
 
The Mendes piece, the obvious errors pointed out earlier make me just throw this on the pile with the rest of Borges hatchet jobs.
 

soxfan121

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We’re supposed to believe that Hernandez smoked “three or four blunts” in the car on the ride home from games, which is an insane amount of marijuana for any one person to smoke in that short of a ride, from Foxborough to North Attleborough.
 
 
I'm a cigarette smoker and I don't think I could smoke 4 cigarettes in the time in takes to go from Gillette to N. Attleboro. 
 
I assume it takes longer to smoke a blunt than a cigarette because of the cigar paper. I'm gonna guess someone here can confirm that.
 

Tony C

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That was my favorite line in the article. Not just is it self-evidently "insane," but I like how Ben V. can't help but make it clear that this is something obvious to anyone with personal experience.
 

natejohnson

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If the PCP and paranoia rumors are true, can you imagine how much Hernandez was sweating when the copter was following him in his SUV?
 

jayhoz

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If the PCP and paranoia rumors are true, can you imagine how much Hernandez was sweating when the copter was following him in his SUV?
 

Leather

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I saw it pointed out elsewhere that Borges refers to Belichick as the "Grand Wizard" of the Patriots.  Is that true?
 
If so, that's pretty fucked up.
 

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Borges is on T&R now, but so far it's typical Borges--Volin is an idiot, BB is arrogant, Kraft knew nothing, because BB runs the whole sordid show down there, etc.
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
I'm a cigarette smoker and I don't think I could smoke 4 cigarettes in the time in takes to go from Gillette to N. Attleboro. 
 
I assume it takes longer to smoke a blunt than a cigarette because of the cigar paper. I'm gonna guess someone here can confirm that.
 
The cigar paper, the size, and the relative 'highness' from a blunt to a single user would make me question if he's able to finish one entire blunt himself on the ride home. With absolutely no experience with PCP I have no idea if that causes you to chain smoke blunts or not, but that's the only way I would find that believable. 
 

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Didn't Borges admit he was friends with Mendes?
If he did, I missed it.
 
Considering that it was Borges, I was not surprised that the plagiarizer asserted at least twice that Ben Volin doesn't know how to do his job. He also defended the "four blunts on the way home after games" nonsense with even more nonsense by saying that Hernandez smoked them with friends in the car, as if the article made it clear that Hernandez always drove home with a bunch of weed-loving buddies in tow. Volin, who was orginally scheduled to be on with Fred at 8 is now set to be on with Flynn and Gosher.
 

fairlee76

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Dotrat said:
Borges is on T&R now, but so far it's typical Borges--Volin is an idiot, BB is arrogant, Kraft knew nothing, because BB runs the whole sordid show down there, etc.
That's great.  Volin is an idiot in spite of the fact that it is Borges who co-authored an article that asserts:
 
1)  That parts of Dorchester are a warzone (hey, it has its trouble spots but Mogadishu it is not).
 
2)  There are strip joints in Southie (no wonder all my bro friends are moving there.  And I thought they just loved Murphy's Law).
 
3)  That a person can smoke 3/4 blunts in the space of 30 minutes (having some experience in this endeavor from my youth, I can say this is impossible).
 
Add in all the rhetorical flourishes and sensational language, and what you have is an entertaining story with a few useful nuggets.  The PCP use chief among them.
 
And one does have to wonder to what extent the lead author knew about Borges's biases going into this project.
 

Harry Hooper

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I am scratching my head over Borges's stance that BB arrived in Foxboro as GM/Coach and then somehow moved in the ensuing years to accrete more power and control to himself. Wasn't Kraft's move to hire BB an acceptance by Kraft (after the Parcells departure and the circus that followed) that an NFL operation needed to have the coach calling all the shots?
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
 
The cigar paper, the size, and the relative 'highness' from a blunt to a single user would make me question if he's able to finish one entire blunt himself on the ride home. With absolutely no experience with PCP I have no idea if that causes you to chain smoke blunts or not, but that's the only way I would find that believable. 
 
There is only one way to find this out.  Give it a go and get back to us.
 

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fairlee76 said:
That's great.  Volin is an idiot in spite of the fact that it is Borges who co-authored an article that asserts:
 
1)  That parts of Dorchester are a warzone (hey, it has its trouble spots but Mogadishu it is not).
 
2)  There are strip joints in Southie (no wonder all my bro friends are moving there.  And I thought they just loved Murphy's Law).
 
3)  That a person can smoke 3/4 blunts in the space of 30 minutes (having some experience in this endeavor from my youth, I can say this is impossible).
 
Add in all the rhetorical flourishes and sensational language, and what you have is an entertaining story with a few useful nuggets.  The PCP use chief among them.
 
And one does have to wonder to what extent the lead author knew about Borges's biases going into this project.
You also have to wonder if Borges, who for years worked on Morrisey Boulevard, a stone's throw from where Dorchester kisses Southie "Hello," saw the bits about the Southie strip clubs ("Girls of DD Street"?) or the war zone of my native 'hood"? With so much indulgence in 'color,' exaggeration, and fiction, the piece seems far too slanted toward the sensational to be credible except in isolated parts. Solotaroff's comments on Boston.com today only hurt the piece's credibility. I also agree with those who think that Mendes was a primary source. I remember when the Brit was hired it was reported as Kraft's decision. (I'll try to find a link for the source for this later.) IIRC, it was said at the time that in opening a new stadium, Kraft was keen to undo Foxboro's rowdy reputation. Briggs was hired mostly because of his success in taming UK hooligans at Wembley. Now we're supposed to believe that Belichick wanted Mendes out and Briggs in because he purposely wanted someone with no established ties because he. . . wanted to draft and develop homicidal maniacs and was afraid Mendes would prevent him from doing so?
 

lexrageorge

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Solotaroff seriously underestimates the case the prosecution has against Hernandez.  In his interview with Zuri Berry, he makes it seem as if it's a slam dunk that Hernandez will get off simply because "he always gets away with it".  It's also clear that he's clearly in the Borges/Wilbur camp that this is almost all Belichick's fault.  
 
It's amazing to me that Borges still has a career.
 

steveluck7

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lexrageorge said:
Solotaroff seriously underestimates the case the prosecution has against Hernandez.  In his interview with Zuri Berry, he makes it seem as if it's a slam dunk that Hernandez will get off simply because "he always gets away with it".  It's also clear that he's clearly in the Borges/Wilbur camp that this is almost all Belichick's fault.  
 
It's amazing to me that Borges still has a career.
In fairness to that point, no one really knows what case the state has yet and the defense hasn't had the opportunity to present its case.  All we know is that the only cooperating witness is a criminal who admittedly was using PCP around the time of the crime.  It seems that everyone else is either staying quiet or dying
 

lexrageorge

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steveluck7 said:
In fairness to that point, no one really knows what case the state has yet and the defense hasn't had the opportunity to present its case.  All we know is that the only cooperating witness is a criminal who admittedly was using PCP around the time of the crime.  It seems that everyone else is either staying quiet or dying
But we've seen the video evidence and the texts, which make a very strong case in their own right.  Agree on all the other points, however. 
 

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The PCP part, at least, makes a lot of Hernandez' actions make a lot more sense, in the sense that it finally gives a reason (paranoia) for such ridiculous activity.
 
The attempt to connect this to some greater fault on BB or the Patriots is just media driven nonsense.  A lot of these guys just have a serious vendetta against BB in particular for not giving them info, and their grand wizard just opened yet another battle front on this topic.  It's honestly annoyingly boring at this point.  The idea that these people somehow want me to hold BB or the Patriots responsible for the actions of a grown man is simply ludicrous.
 
I find Borges' "clarifications" really telling, as well.  "Well it wasn't just him smoking" and the like are all proving that he chose generic language to maximize the potential impact of the story.  It makes it impossible to know what other facts are "sensationalized", although the idea of BB telling Hernandez to go get a flop house (like he's some sort of Walter White doling out wisdom to his thug players) versus just telling him to find a safe place really stands out as likely.
 

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Putting aside the death on the young man in this case, from a football perspective will this article (I'll read it at some pont this week-end, but it from reading the posts here, it appears the hack Borges has imprinted an anti-Pats/BB/Kraft  agenda into the article) have a negative impact on the team? Will the Pats have undue scrutiny placed on them, a year-long distraction? Will BB have less of a voice in certain matters? (like security? does BB the Grand Wizard hire the caterer)  or will this be an us-against them rallying point, that focuses team efforts? Or is it just noise that will be drowned out with tonight's kick-off?.
 

soxfan121

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Anyone playing tonight is doing so to stay on the roster and not be unemployed on Monday. If it has any effect on players tonight it'll just be one more reason to cut that player. 
 

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So after all this stuff about all this shit Hernandez is doing off the field, Solotaroff thinks he's going to get off and be back in the NFL?
 
Is he trying to make some grandiose point about the NFL's tolerance for thugs or something?
 
And why does he keep saying no eyewitness when the preponderance of evidence tells us that someone in that car has identified Hernandez as being present for the murder?
 
Maybe he's right and the rich and talented get away with whatever, but his connecting of the dots is essentially monkey poo flinging.
 

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bankshot1 said:
Putting aside the death on the young man in this case, from a football perspective will this article (I'll read it at some pont this week-end, but it from reading the posts here, it appears the hack Borges has imprinted an anti-Pats/BB/Kraft  agenda into the article) have a negative impact on the team? Will the Pats have undue scrutiny placed on them, a year-long distraction? Will BB have less of a voice in certain matters? (like security? does BB the Grand Wizard hire the caterer)  or will this be an us-against them rallying point, that focuses team efforts? Or is it just noise that will be drowned out with tonight's kick-off?.
 
The only person who has the ability to take some of the power away from Bill Belichick is Robert Kraft and based on everything you think you know about Robert Kraft do you think an article in Rolling Stone written in part by Ron Borges is going to cause him to mess with the formula that has resulted in the team being a perennial Super Bowl contender and one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports?
 
And not to minimize the Hernandez situation but it is quite obviously an outlier and apart from that the Pats have been relatively well behaved off-the-field during Belichick's tenure.  Whether that is luck or what, who knows, but compared with the rest of football the Pats do not stand out as having a million off the field issues under Bill Belichick.
 

fairlee76

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Dotrat said:
You also have to wonder if Borges, who for years worked on Morrisey Boulevard, a stone's throw from where Dorchester kisses Southie "Hello," saw the bits about the Southie strip clubs ("Girls of DD Street"?) or the war zone of my native 'hood"?
Yes.  Which in my mind further pushes the piece towards interesting (recent) historical fiction territory.  I'm no journalist, but it seems asinine to have a local guy writing a piece with you and not consult on details about the local area.
 

bankshot1

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
The only person who has the ability to take some of the power away from Bill Belichick is Robert Kraft and based on everything you think you know about Robert Kraft do you think an article in Rolling Stone written in part by Ron Borges is going to cause him to mess with the formula that has resulted in the team being a perennial Super Bowl contender and one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports?
 
And not to minimize the Hernandez situation but it is quite obviously an outlier and apart from that the Pats have been relatively well behaved off-the-field during Belichick's tenure.  Whether that is luck or what, who knows, but compared with the rest of football the Pats do not stand out as having a million off the field issues under Bill Belichick.
My football concern is that Goodell (who probably is sensitive to image/Rolling Stone) says to Kraft the Elder, have a greater degree of oversight of your organization. I'm tired of Spygate, crack smoking killers and DUI cop-smacking CBs, muddy up the pristine image of the NFL.  And if that means more Kraft, less BB, and a fed-up BB, then it may have an impact on the Pats . 
 

dcmissle

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smastroyin said:
So after all this stuff about all this shit Hernandez is doing off the field, Solotaroff thinks he's going to get off and be back in the NFL?
 
Is he trying to make some grandiose point about the NFL's tolerance for thugs or something?
 
And why does he keep saying no eyewitness when the preponderance of evidence tells us that someone in that car has identified Hernandez as being present for the murder?
 
Maybe he's right and the rich and talented get away with whatever, but his connecting of the dots is essentially monkey poo flinging.
 
You nailed it; this is performance art.  Did he post *massive over-reaction* here the day it hit the fan.
 
An acquittal certainly is conceivable.  His ass in an NFL stadium other than as a spectator is not.
 
The risk/reward and pr hit would be skewed in an incredibly awful way.  He's not worrth bringing back tomorrow if he were acquitted today ... much less 3 or 4 years down the road.
 

Ralphwiggum

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bankshot1 said:
My football concern is that Goodell (who probably is sensitive to image/Rolling Stone) says to Kraft the Elder, have a greater degree of oversight of your organization. I'm tired of Spygate, crack smoking killers and DUI cop-smacking CBs, muddy up the pristine image of the NFL.  And if that means more Kraft, less BB, and a fed-up BB, then it may have an impact on the Pats . 
 
Spygate was six years ago now and the Pats and BB were already punished for that.  Every team in the league has a guy who has or has had issues like Dennard.  If Gooddell were to try to lump Hernandez in with every indiscretion that has ever occurred during Belichick's tenure I would expect that Kraft would be willing to line up the Pats off-the-field stuff with any other team's and then tell Gooddell where to stick it.  The "Patriot Way" stuff is overblown and the Pats do not deserve any extra credit for running a relatively clean show in Foxboro but the bottom line is that before the Hernandez situation the NFL would have been better off if most other franchises only had the relatively few relatively minor off-the-field issues that the Pats have had to deal with since Kraft hired BB.
 
So along comes a murdering thug tight end and Gooddell is going to force Bob Kraft, one of the most powerful and influential owners in the league, to strip his coach of some of his power, why exactly?  Because he didn't have the clairvoyance to cut Hernandez before he murdered someone?
 
Nothing is going to happen (officially or unofficially) to Kraft or BB or the Pats because of this.  I'm sure they'll take a look at their own evaluation methods and try to learn from their mistakes here.  They have already admitted as much.  But even if you take every single word of the Rolling Stone thing as true, there is literally NOTHING that points to this being anyone's fault except for Aaron Hernandez.  Pinning the blame on BB being the "Grand Wizard" is Ron Borges trolling at its absolute worst and I just cannot fathom that Bob Kraft is going to change the way he runs his football franchise because of it.
 

Leather

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The whole article is based on juxtaposing the overly-fawning "Character" shit from the early 2000s with Borges' own, current, "Down with the Patriots" mentality.
 
That is:  anyone who was claiming the Patriots of 2000-2004 were a group of angels wasn't paying attention.  Corey Dillon?   McGinest hanging around with Snoop Dogg (prior to Snoop becoming a total self-parody)? 
 
"The Patriot Way" is about as real as "The Curse of the Bambino" in that it's a media concoction that is useful to fall back for people who would rather not admit that sports can be complex and frustrating to explain, but isn't based on anything tangible.  
 
So any article that uses "The Patriot Way" as evidence of something that once was, or is no longer, is as credible to me as an article citing "Yankee Aura and Mystique" as a reason that the Yankees win a lot.   It's New York Post level bullshit.
 
It's fucking infuriating.  Want to make a case that the Patriots have taken too many gambles with "character guys" over the past five years?  Go ahead.  But nobody will, because when you get beyond media labels and rumor, there's nothing there.  
 

Fred in Lynn

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drleather2001 said:
I just reject the premise that teams, coaches, or whomever is somehow under an obligation to monitor the personal activities of players beyond how they manifest themselves in on-field performance.

To suggest otherwise is just absurd, and is a standard that I've never seen applied in another situation. Not Ray Lewis, not Kobe Bryant, not anybody.

In many states, for fuck's sake, it's ILLEGAL for an employer to take action against an employee for drinking or smoking on the employee's personal time. While this obviously doesn't extend to illegal drugs or violent crime, it demonstrates that society, generally speaking, DOES NOT WANT employers meddling with how employees spend their time away from the job. Why the New England Patriots are somehow being held as partially responsible for Aaron Hernandez killing someone, in the off season no less, is just through-the-looking glass to me.
 
On the first bolded part, I think the circumstances get a little more complex when a felony may have been committed, "a little more" being the operative phrase.  As I understand it, evidence that a felony may have been committed in and of itself does not in most cases require the observer to notify law enforcement.  Whatever the legal requirements, the perception that management would take an approach of doing the bare minimum to monitor its players isn't very publicly popular and seems to create a different kind of headache that involves a cadre of public relations specialists.  In principle, I'm with you all the way.  Practically, the public seems to think they have a right to care, and since professional teams have decided they care about public perception, it's a dragon along the path to deal with.
 
Note that the discussion of the possiblity that BB may have known that a felony was afoot is entirely academic, as we have no reason whatsoever to take seriously the shadowy implication that Belicheck encouraged AH to rent a flop house, let alone an allegation that explicitly knew of criminal activity.  I can completely see AH telling BB that people were trying to kill him with BB responding with tongue-in-cheek that if he's concerned he should buy a second home and fit it out with a moat and alligators*, all the while wondering where in his contract it says he has to deal with this absurdity.
 
On the second bolded part, Joe Paterno says 'hi.'
 
 
*I advise my wife in this manner all the time when she comes to me with problems, like "The mortgage is overdue and the bank is here to foreclose!" and "Some stranger just grabbed one of the kids from the front lawn again!!"  Thanks, but I've lived in a truck before and we have other kids.  I'll adapt.  Alert me when you have a real problem.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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bankshot1 said:
My football concern is that Goodell (who probably is sensitive to image/Rolling Stone) says to Kraft the Elder, have a greater degree of oversight of your organization. I'm tired of Spygate, crack smoking killers and DUI cop-smacking CBs, muddy up the pristine image of the NFL.  And if that means more Kraft, less BB, and a fed-up BB, then it may have an impact on the Pats . 
 
As Ralphwiggum already mentioned, I think you can rest easy.
 
You're underestimating the influence and respect Kraft (both Krafts) have around the league, and among other GMs, whom Goodell works for. (Remember this? http://www.masslive.com/mywideworld/index.ssf/2011/07/grieving_patriots_owner_robert_kraft_credited_as_a_driving_force_in_the_nfl_labor_settlement.html)
 
In other words, there's as much as chance of Goodell coming down on Kraft & the Pats on this as there are Hernandez coming back to the NFL. 
 

Montana Fan

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The only value I've ever seen from Borges was his prediction that Holyfield would whip Tyson and why. No one else predicated that.

So basically no value in at least the last 17 years.
 
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