Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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Average Reds

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Reverend said:
 
We have a whole generation or three of people who took from the OJ Trial that a crack criminal defense team can get anyone off. As RR mentions with respect to police "hanky panky," a big part of the OJ case was the absolute botching of things by the police.
 
 
I like to describe the OJ trial as being about three murders:  the killing of Ron Goldman, Nicole Brown, and the case against OJ Simpson.
 
In a summary of the Simpson trial, legendary LA prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi described with eloquence how the case against Simpson was botched from start to finish by terrible police work and brutal incompetence on the part of the prosecutors.  People forget that when Simpson returned from Chicago after the murders, he sat with police and agreed to be interviewed without counsel.  In that interview, Simpson made so many incriminating statements that Bugliosi made a compelling argument that he could have convicted Simpson with no other evidence but the statement itself.  And yet, almost unbelievably, Marcia Clark never introduced the statement into evidence because she didn't want the jury to hear Simpson say that he was innocent without the ability to cross examine him.  Considering that the entire premise of the trial was that Simpson had pleaded not guilty, this is tantamount to prosecutorial malpractice.
 
Is it possible that Hernandez will have the good luck to discover police misconduct or be tried by a band of incompetent prosecutors?  Sure.  But it's highly unlikely.  And absent the most unusual of circumstances, the mere fact that AH is a celebrity with good lawyers does not mean that reasonable doubt can be manufactured from thin air. 
 
Hernandez is known to be with the victim that night.  He (and his co-defendants) can be placed at the scene of the crime with absolute certainty as the murder was taking place.  And Hernandez is on tape brandishing a gun minutes after the murder.  Combine this with his brazen attempts to destroy evidence immediately following the murder and the fact that one of his co-defendants is apparently prepared to roll on him and he is left without any real defense.
 
He is going down.
 

crystalline

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Not to mention he may still go down for the two murders last summer in Boston. We know almost nothing about what the police have on that, except the vehicle shots were fired from was found in Hernandez's uncle's garage in Bristol.
 

MainerInExile

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Not to mention he may still go down for the two murders last summer in Boston. We know almost nothing about what the police have on that, except the vehicle shots were fired from was found in Hernandez's uncle's garage in Bristol.

They also found the gun. Whether they can tie the gun to Hernandez is unknown.
 

VORP Speed

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Reverend said:
 
 
PCP makes people nuts, and people crave it because they are drawn to the feelings it gives you (some of them anyway), but it's not physically addicting (for most people anyway) in the way that opium based drugs, for example, are. So he might be ornery that he's not feeling the god-like power of the drug, but he's not going to breaking into sweats and shaking, I don't think. It's more like LSD or something, if LSD could cause you to freak out to the point you could break out of handcuffs*.
 
*It's argued that someone can only break out of handcuffs that are defective, but at some point, that becomes tautalogical. As the medical professionals above indicated, people on PCP are wild, and you can look up video and see. The idea of a guy like Aaron Hernandez on PCP is absolutely terrifying.
 
That's right. You don't get physical dependency with PCP, so no DTs or narcotic withdrawal type meltdowns that need to be managed. You can get all kinds of psych after effects ranging from depression to insomnia to hallucinations, etc. In reality, though, it's unlikely that AH was ever using large doses. If he had a dust head nutso episode, you probably would have heard about it. A lot of the illy smokers keep the dose low enough where they just get the milder effects, and after effects, which is actually consistent with the paranoia, moodiness, anger outbursts, but yet still functioning on a day to day basis. And yes, a guy like him would effectively be the incredible hulk if he ever did high doses and had one of the classic violent, psychotic episodes. In addition to the psychotropic stuff, it's a fairly potent anesthetic, so you can go totally crazy and literally { ;) } not feel any pain. 
 

Ed Hillel

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crystalline said:
Not to mention he may still go down for the two murders last summer in Boston. We know almost nothing about what the police have on that, except the vehicle shots were fired from was found in Hernandez's uncle's garage in Bristol.
And they now have video surveillance placing Hernandez at the same club the two victims were at hours before the shootings:

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=9633921
 

Rovin Romine

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For the curious - if there's an AH trial on the second Boston murder, it would very likely be separate from the AH's trial for killing Lloyd.  However, both crimes could be tried together if there's some kind of strong commonality between the crimes - if they were carried out as part of a related scheme or plan.  In that case, both crimes might be tried by one jury, the way Whitey was tried for many crimes in one trial.   That seems unlikely here though, since the cases don't seem to be related.  (Unless some drug dealing/selling activity comes to light, perhaps.)
 
At separate trials, the general rule is that you can't refer to the other crime.  It's *possible* that there would be some indication to a jury (in either trial) that another shooting occurred, but that depends on very specific facts and/or the defense opening that particular door at trial.  Again, the standard for letting the jury know about another crime is basically the commonality between the crimes, and if the prosecutors try to introduce evidence of that commonality.  (The 404(b) "MIMIC" exceptions to admit evidence of wrongdoing external to the case at hand: Motive, Intent, Mistake, Identity, or Common scheme or plan.)  The legal fiction is that you introduce those other bad acts to show something other than the defendant's propensity to commit crimes of that type, but the jury pretty much just sees it as a showing that the defendant does in fact have a propensity to commit crimes of that type.
 
There's also an issue of whether or not the co-Defendants for each individual crime are tried at the same time, by the same jury.  Meaning - are AH and his two accomplices tried for Lloyd's murder at the same time in front of one jury?  (Assuming they're all charged and none has cut a deal.)  Most jurisdictions allow this if there's a common defense and none of the co-defendants have made statements implicating the other co-defendants.  (If one co-D implicates another, and the state wants to put that information in front of the jury, the co-Defednants cannot be tried together, since a) no one can force either to take the stand in their individual defense, and b) the one who was implicated would therefore be robbed of their right to cross examine the person who made the statement - hence, separate trials.) 
 
I write all this to suggest that having a weaker "second" case just gives the state another bite at the apple, so to speak.  Unless closely related to the first case, a second case does not make a conviction on the first case significantly more or less likely.  Nor does the first case impact the chances of conviction in the second.
 
Again, I'm not a MA attorney, so this is based on how the majority of criminal jurisdictions operate.  MA may very well have it's own tweaks.
 

Bergs

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Well they're related (if we are to believe what we're told); AH killed Lloyd because he was yapping about the first shooting.
 

soxfan121

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Bergs said:
Well they're related (if we are to believe what we're told); AH killed Lloyd because he was yapping about the first shooting.
 
That's not the story Rolling Stone/Solataroff/Borges is telling. They have a detailed account of the evening of Lloyd's death and it doesn't include anything about this other shooting. 
 
So there's at least two possible stories that can be believed or told. 
 

lexrageorge

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soxfan121 said:
 
That's not the story Rolling Stone/Solataroff/Borges is telling. They have a detailed account of the evening of Lloyd's death and it doesn't include anything about this other shooting. 
 
So there's at least two possible stories that can be believed or told. 
That "story" was written by an author who believes Hernandez should be playing in the NFL next season and another one who thinks Belichick bears responsibility for the murders.  
 
My guess is that unless the evidence to link the crimes is rock solid, they will be considered seperately.  As has been mentioned before, Solataroff's bleatings aside, there's already substantial evidence against Hernandez for Lloyd's murder; I can't see the prosecution risking the one case they do have an in an attempt to link AH to the other murders unless some additional details come to light.
 

soxfan121

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lexrageorge said:
That "story" was written by an author who believes Hernandez should be playing in the NFL next season and another one who thinks Belichick bears responsibility for the murders.  
 
My guess is that unless the evidence to link the crimes is rock solid, they will be considered seperately.  As has been mentioned before, Solataroff's bleatings aside, there's already substantial evidence against Hernandez for Lloyd's murder; I can't see the prosecution risking the one case they do have an in an attempt to link AH to the other murders unless some additional details come to light.
 
What is the source of the "story" that Lloyd was killed because of the previous murders? I mean, apart from conjecture and connecting-the-dots. I haven't seen anything credible about that "story". 
 
The RS story might have some factual issues and it might have an agenda. It also has a source who claims that the conflict between Lloyd and Hernandez arose from Lloyd's friends giving Hernandez the stink eye that night. Plausible, IMO. As plausible as any other "story" we've heard. 
 
Just because most of the RS story is crap does not mean all of it is crap. And at least it has a source. Anything connecting Lloyd's murder to previous murders is straight-up conjecture supported by no source and authored by no one other than amateur sleuths adding 2 and 2. Hey..it very possibly is 4. Or it's not. We don't know.
 

savage362

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Arraignment took place today and just concluded a little while ago. Hernandez plead not guilty to all charges.
 
Also saw that supposedly a white towel was found near Lloyd's body and Ortiz was seen on surveillance with a white towel around his neck that night. Ortiz has claimed that he did not get out of the car that night.
 
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/23356877/fox-sports-towel-could-discredit-witness-against-hernandez
 
There's certainly several circumstances that could have led to the towel being on the ground but it's certainly a step in the right direction for the defense to discredit him.
 

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lexrageorge said:
That "story" was written by an author who believes Hernandez should be playing in the NFL next season and another one who thinks Belichick bears responsibility for the murders.  
 
My guess is that unless the evidence to link the crimes is rock solid, they will be considered seperately.  As has been mentioned before, Solataroff's bleatings aside, there's already substantial evidence against Hernandez for Lloyd's murder; I can't see the prosecution risking the one case they do have an in an attempt to link AH to the other murders unless some additional details come to light.
There is a vast difference between substantial evidence against Hernandez and substantial evidence against Hernandez that will lead to a jury convicting him of the crime he's being charged with.

While I obviously agree on the former I'm still waiting for something concrete on the latter. As of today they have jack shit to gain a conviction of that charge imo.

(disclaimer: my opinion means jack shit and I have zero formal training in murder trials. I've just seen the Simpson, Blake, Casey prosecutors fail gaining the correct verdict. To convict a celebrity you need to have all t's crossed and I'd dotted......right now as it stands they don't.)
 

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savage362 said:
Arraignment took place today and just concluded a little while ago. Hernandez plead not guilty to all charges.
 
Also saw that supposedly a white towel was found near Lloyd's body and Ortiz was seen on surveillance with a white towel around his neck that night. Ortiz has claimed that he did not get out of the car that night.
 
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/23356877/fox-sports-towel-could-discredit-witness-against-hernandez
 
There's certainly several circumstances that could have led to the towel being on the ground but it's certainly a step in the right direction for the defense to discredit him.
That towel will be tested for DNA. 
 
HomeRunBaker said:
There is a vast difference between substantial evidence against Hernandez and substantial evidence against Hernandez that will lead to a jury convicting him of the crime he's being charged with.

While I obviously agree on the former I'm still waiting for something concrete on the latter. As of today they have jack shit to gain a conviction of that charge imo.

(disclaimer: my opinion means jack shit and I have zero formal training in murder trials. I've just seen the Simpson, Blake, Casey prosecutors fail gaining the correct verdict. To convict a celebrity you need to have all t's crossed and I'd dotted......right now as it stands they don't.)
 
I don't know much about Blake's case, but the Simpson and Casey verdicts were correct, in the sense that the juries in each of those cases returned the verdicts any jury should have after listening to the case as it was presented to them.  You can argue that that prosecutors failed to present the case effectively, or brought the wrong charges, or tried to prosecute the case with fatally flawed witnesses (police misconduct).
 

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Rovin Romine said:
That towel will be tested for DNA. 
 
 
I don't know much about Blake's case, but the Simpson and Casey verdicts were correct, in the sense that the juries in each of those cases returned the verdicts any jury should have after listening to the case as it was presented to them.  You can argue that that prosecutors failed to present the case effectively, or brought the wrong charges, or tried to prosecute the case with fatally flawed witnesses (police misconduct).
I
 

axx

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Florio says the trial is slated to happen next summer. That's good news for the Pats, since the story should die down a bit until the trial gets going, and could be completed before the 2014 season.
 

SMU_Sox

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So assuming AH is found innocent I think Goodell let's him back into the league and doesn't block him. I bet he will still get a big cobtract unless Kraft gets the owners to collude.
 

notfar

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HomeRunBaker said:
There is a vast difference between substantial evidence against Hernandez and substantial evidence against Hernandez that will lead to a jury convicting him of the crime he's being charged with.

While I obviously agree on the former I'm still waiting for something concrete on the latter. As of today they have jack shit to gain a conviction of that charge imo.

(disclaimer: my opinion means jack shit and I have zero formal training in murder trials. I've just seen the Simpson, Blake, Casey prosecutors fail gaining the correct verdict. To convict a celebrity you need to have all t's crossed and I'd dotted......right now as it stands they don't.)
 
This is a little different than those cases though; they have at least one person claiming they were there and saw what happened. That alone, even without all of the other corroborating evidence, is huge.
 

HomeRunBaker

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notfar said:
 
This is a little different than those cases though; they have at least one person claiming they were there and saw what happened. That alone, even without all of the other corroborating evidence, is huge.
The other thing that is huge is that witnesses rap sheet though.
 

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SMU_Sox said:
So assuming AH is found innocent I think Goodell let's him back into the league and doesn't block him. I bet he will still get a big cobtract unless Kraft gets the owners to collude.
He'll get a Vick "show me" contract if anything. And I'm inclined to believe he won't get anything since killing people and/or being associated with those people is worse than killing animals. Note: Both suck so let's not get into a PETA argument or anything.
 

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There is a negative 100% chance he ever plays in the NFL again. This isn't Plaxico carrying a gun or Vick funding dog fighting. Sweet Leaf was likely involved in two separate murders. Not even the Raiders want to deal with that level of public scrutiny and media attention.
 

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Bongorific said:
There is a negative 100% chance he ever plays in the NFL again. This isn't Plaxico carrying a gun or Vick funding dog fighting. Sweet Leaf was likely involved in two separate murders. Not even the Raiders want to deal with that level of public scrutiny and media attention.
 
You better believe if he gets acquitted of murder and only gets time served he'll be in the starting lineup for some team next year. A Pro Bowl caliber TE on what would be a make-do 1 year deal is going to be too tempting for a team to pass up.
 

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I'm stunned (but I guess I shouldn't be) by this Cris Carter, Ray Lewis, Keyshawn Johnson, Tom Jackson roundtable discussing Hernandez.
 
Carter submits that he had issues in Philly, points to Keyshawn and indicates he had "problems" with the Jets and Bucs, and looks at Ray and says "you had your THING with Baltimore in Atlanta."
 
Lewis looks in the camera and says, "The biggest difference is that I was clean [reputation-wise] coming out of college."  Later... "The Patriots HAD to know something."
 
Whaaaaaaaaat?
 
The level of denial is off the charts.
 
Sadly, I'm sure this is the one and only time ESPN will have Lewis opine on this subject.
 

SMU_Sox

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Bongorific... if he is found innocent I'll take that bet. If he's guilty? No way. I realize you made that bet offer with the outcome of the trial uncertain. But if you want a side bet for say 25... if he is found innocent our side bet kicks in. I say he plays again.
 

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His best chance to catch passes again will be if Burt Reynolds comes out of retirement and remakes The Longest Yard.
Just to clarify--this already happened. Sorry, man, but this cracked me up.

Maybe if Adam Sandler remakes the remake... ;)
 

axx

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Hmm, now that you mention it, it would be rather difficult for Lloyd to change his story. It was Carlos Ortiz who changed his story.
 

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Aaron Hernandez Fiancee UPDATE: Shayanna Jenkins Indicted By Grand Jury In Odin Lloyd Murder

 
 
A grand jury indicted Shayanna Jenkins, the fiancée of Aaron Hernandez, in connection with the murder of Odin Lloyd.  Jenkins was charged with one count of perjury, the Associated Press reports.
A Massachusetts prosecutor announced on Friday that a grand jury has handed an indictment to Jenkins, who is also the mother of Hernandez's child.  The Commonwealth hasn't immediately released the specifics of Jenkin's perjury charge.
 
 
Surveillance video, according to the Hartford Courant, appears to show Jenkins carrying a "rigid object" in a bag to her car on June 18.  Jenkins places the bag in her trunk and leaves in her car.  When she returns, video shows the object no longer in her trunk.
 

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MonstahsInLeft said:
 
Dude it was the uncommunicative murder victim Lloyd trying to make contact from the beyond Ouija board-style.  What other letters are coming up?
 
"Lay low for a while, maybe get a safe house."
 

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Ben Volin says the NFLPA has filed a grievance to pay $2.96MM of AH's guaranteed salariesand bonuses as well as a $3.25MM signing bonus due next March.
 

mauf

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The judge declined to recuse herself. The DA has said he won't appeal.
 
Link
 
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