#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

twibnotes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,533
Ferm Sheller said:
I really don't get the concept of caring what fans of other teams think unless you somehow think how the Pats fare and how they go about doing so is somehow a reflection of you.
You don't live in the nyc suburbs, do you?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,713
Here
Volin:

@BenVolin: NFL clarifies that the officials re-inflated the original footballs at halftime, and that they didn’t use the backup balls
Should be easy enough to measure the backup balls now, one would think. If the backups are also under, that would answer it. Unless they were stupid enough not to confiscate those.
 

geoffm33

New Member
Mar 3, 2012
88
Ed Hillel said:
Volin:


Should be easy enough to measure the backup balls now, one would think.
I heard them briefly mention this on 98.5 on the way home but nothing else about it till now.

What we don't know is how long they let the original batch warm up at halftime for the measurement. And that particular batch of evidence no longer exists.
 

Hoya81

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 3, 2010
8,549
Ed Hillel said:
Volin:

Should be easy enough to measure the backup balls now, one would think. If the backups are also under, that would answer it. Unless they were stupid enough not to confiscate those.
So they destroyed their own evidence?

If they really thought it was a serious violation they would have impounded the ball.
 

SemperFidelisSox

Member
SoSH Member
May 25, 2008
32,010
Boston, MA
This is going to be the highest rated Super Bowl ever. The Patriots have reached international fame/infamy for this. Networks and sponsors will line up for Patriots games next season. It will be an event when the defending champion Patriots come to town. Kraft will be rolling in the money. The value of this franchise will go up. They have reached Yankee levels of admiration and hatred across the country and world.
 

PeaceSignMoose

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,745
Boston
Hoya81 said:
So they destroyed their own evidence?
 
Which in a way makes me think that the refs didn't see this as a big deal, and that the league kind of surprised them with wanting the balls, gauges and numbers as evidence.  
 
But, it is Friday night and I've been drinking.
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2002
14,206
Springfield, VA
staz said:
Reading between the lines of the NFL statement, it seems strange that "(video and) other electronic information" is referenced twice, seemingly for emphasis. What "other electronic information" could be so important? If it was just still photos, they could simply say "video and still photography." Using the term "other electronic information" seems to open it up to still photos and what? Email? Computer files?
 
Hey look, it's the missing Lois Lerner emails from the IRS.
 

kartvelo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2003
10,516
At home
 
The Patriots are an incredibly successful franchise who have earned a special place in NFL history – perhaps the best-run organization in sports this century. It is a fact that very successful sports enterprises look for any and every advantage they can get. Do clubs go too far? Yes - often. Management can only go so far in reining in the intense desire to win.
- John W. Henry
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
PeaceSignMoose said:
 
Which in a way makes me think that the refs didn't see this as a big deal, and that the league kind of surprised them with wanting the balls, gauges and numbers as evidence.  
 
But, it is Friday night and I've been drinking.
It likely wouldn't have been a big deal, until Irsay made that phone call.
 

shepard50

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 18, 2006
8,309
Sydney, Australia
SemperFidelisSox said:
This is going to be the highest rated Super Bowl ever. The Patriots have reached international fame/infamy for this. Networks and sponsors will line up for Patriots games next season. It will be an event when the defending champion Patriots come to town. Kraft will be rolling in the money. The value of this franchise will go up. They have reached Yankee levels of admiration and hatred across the country and world.
 
This is where we are now.
 
Oh god, what have we become!?
 

OnWisc

Microcosmic
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2006
7,589
Chicago, IL
kartvelo said:
 
The Patriots are an incredibly successful franchise who have earned a special place in NFL history perhaps the best-run organization in sports this century. It is a fact that very successful sports enterprises look for any and every advantage they can get. Do clubs go too far? Yes - often. Management can only go so far in reining in the intense desire to win.
- John W. Henry
So don't blame me for Manny and Papi positives.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
Byrdbrain said:
It likely wouldn't have been a big deal, until Irsay made that phone call.
 
There are thousands of posts in this thread pointing out that there is no confirmation that the Patriots did anything wrong.
 
So, please link to the confirmation that it was Irsay who tipped off Kravitz
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
PeaceSignMoose said:
 
Which in a way makes me think that the refs didn't see this as a big deal, and that the league kind of surprised them with wanting the balls, gauges and numbers as evidence.  
 
.
Methinks Ted Wells and the boys from the Acme Supersecret Investigation Company brought on board by the NFL are going to be doing a whole lot of facepalming over the next few weeks.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
rodderick said:
Really, the Patriots aren't a hated team at all? This is the wrongest statement to come out of this mess, congratulations.
Patriots are the modern day MFY
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
E5 Yaz said:
 
There are thousands of posts in this thread pointing out that there is no confirmation that the Patriots did anything wrong.
 
So, please link to the confirmation that it was Irsay who tipped off Kravitz
There is of course no such confirmation but it's not exactly a huge stretch.
The comment was partly tongue in cheek.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
E5 Yaz said:
 
There are thousands of posts in this thread pointing out that there is no confirmation that the Patriots did anything wrong.
 
So, please link to the confirmation that it was Irsay who tipped off Kravitz
One thing I take heart from in the NFL's memo and Kraft's follow up is that everybody is going to be under the microscope here.  I would assume--ok, hope--that Colts personnel will be asked to surrender their cell phones, laptops, game underwear as well.  I look forward to Mr. Irsay's letter pledging his full cooperation as well.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
patinorange said:
Not to pick on you personally but this question keeps getting asked. How else would they measure them? As dumb and confused as the NFL is on many subjects and issues, it's difficult to believe they would humiliate themselves and ruin the Super Bowl if they did not measure the balls with a gauge? Really.
As I've said above: I bet the Pats can prove via survellance the refs didn't have time to properly guage 36-48 balls. If you believe the refs are not capable of taking a shortcut and eyeballing or just squeezing the balls then you are in denial - Aaron Rogers stated as much.

That the refs didn't guage test the Pats balls (presented for inspection at about 12 PSI), combined with a temp related (indoor versus outdoor) drop of about 1 PSI is the simplest answer. No tampering, no ninja tricks, no secret needles under a towel. Just a lazy Ref (or overly busy Ref, or a Ref that assumes the league doesn't care because the QBs should be comfortable on a cold, rainy night).

Can *I* prove this? No. But I believe the league knows it, the vague wording that they "were tested before the game but guage tested twice at the half". They are crafting the words beautifully to imply something that isn't.

Assuming the Refs short cutted the testing, to me the question becomes: Is presenting the balls for inspection at 12 PSI acceptable to the league or evidence of messing with the integrity of the game. It's clear from Aaron Rogers comments (and the Chicago ball boy) the QBs at least make it clear to the equipment guys what their preferences are (direct commands or indirect hinting). It seems an acceptable part of the game for the equipment guys to increase the comfort level of their QB if posssible, including taking advantage of the human nature (laziness?) of Refs or the complicit ignorance of the league.

Let there be no doubt: if the league didn't know the QBs were doing this - they should have. It either affects the integrity of the game or it doesn't. Aaron Rogers statements were aired on national TV. If it matters - then Rogers should have been publicly disciplined and he wasn't. If the league didn't care about presenting the balls for inspection a little under or a little over - then they can't hang the Patriots for it now.

And that is where the league is now. It painted itself into a corner and doesn't know how to get out. That's why 4/5 days later it put out an ambigous statement. It's trying to buy time with the Wells appointment. But it is leaving the Pats/BB/Brady swinging in the wind - which sucks for them for doing nothing more than what everyone else was doing with the league complicit by turning a blind eye to it.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
Byrdbrain said:
There is of course no such confirmation but it's not exactly a huge stretch.
The comment was partly tongue in cheek.
 
Besides, it was Ryan Grigson. Irsay was already in the bag.
 

Kull

wannabe merloni
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2005
1,715
El Paso, TX
Hoya81 said:
So they destroyed their own evidence?

If they really thought it was a serious violation they would have impounded the ball.
 
Unbelievable. What comes after farce? Because that's where this is. NOW we know why the league/officials were distraught.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
Harry Hooper said:
 
Is he trying to get out ahead of a story about one of his properties?
 
Nah, because if the Red Sox were a very successful sports enterprises looking for any and every advantage they can get in the intense desire to win , they'd sign an ace
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,841
Hingham, MA
RetractableRoof said:
As I've said above: I bet the Pats can prove via survellance the refs didn't have time to properly guage 36-48 balls. If you believe the refs are not capable of taking a shortcut and eyeballing or just squeezing the balls then you are in denial - Aaron Rogers stated as much.

That the refs didn't guage test the Pats balls (presented for inspection at about 12 PSI), combined with about a temp related (indoor versus outdoor) drop of about 1 PSI is the simplest answer. No tampering, no ninja tricks, no secret needles under a towel. Just a lazy Ref (or overly busy Ref, or a Ref that assumes the league doesn't care because the QBs should be comfortable on a cold, rainy night).

Can *I* prove this? No. But I believe the league knows it, the vague wording that they "were tested before the game but guage tested twice at the half". They are crafting the words beautifully to imply something that isn't.

Assuming the Refs short cutted the testing, to me the question becomes: Is presenting the balls for inspection at 12 PSI acceptable to the league or evidence of messing with the integrity of the game. It's clear from Aaron Rogers comments (and the Chicago ball boy) the QBs at least make it clear to the equipment guys what their preferences are (direct commands or indirect hinting). It seems an acceptable part of the game for the equipment guys to increase the comfort level of their QB if posssible, including taking advantage of the human nature (laziness?) of Refs or the complicit ignorance of the league.

Let there be no doubt: if the league didn't know the QBs were doing this - they should have. It either affects the integrity of the game or it doesn't. Aaron Rogers statements were aired on national TV. If it matters - then Rogers should have been publicly disciplined and he wasn't. If the league didn't care about presenting the balls for inspection a little under or a little over - then they can't hang the Patriots for it now.

And that is where the league is now. It painted itself into a corner and doesn't know how to get out. That's why 4/5 days later it put out an ambigous statement. It's trying to buy time with the Wells appointment. But it is leaving the Pats/BB/Brady swinging in the wind - which sucks for them for doing nothing more than what everyone else was doing with the league complicit by turning a blind eye to it.
I can't praise this enough. Greatest post in SoSH history IMO.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,693
E5 Yaz said:
 
Nah, because if the Red Sox were a very successful sports enterprises looking for any and every advantage they can get in the intense desire to win , they'd sign an ace
 
rimshot!
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,575
Newton
One of the other odd obfuscations in the NFL statement is:

The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.
Was this some anonymous tip? A member of the Colts? Why can't they actually say what triggered the investigation?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,713
Here
I kind of hope the NFL didn't confiscate the backup Patriots balls and spends 20 million bucks and end up not being able to figure out what happened.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
21,354
E5 Yaz said:
 
Nah, because if the Red Sox were a very successful sports enterprises looking for any and every advantage they can get in the intense desire to win , they'd sign an ace
If you were a real fan, you'd know that they just traded for Zimmerman.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
When's Goodell's "State of the NFL" address? It's usually Super Bowl week. That could be high comedy. 
 
I really hope after 30 questions about ball inflation, someone asks about players taking illegal drugs, beating women, deforming children and abusing animals in order to lighten the mood
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,219
A Scud Away from Hell

 
Volin on AC360. BV is going to squeeze every second on the national face time as he can. He can do that of course, it's all in the game, but I do feel this urge to grab the largest paper clip and put'em on his snout. 
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
Ferm Sheller said:
If you were a real fan, you'd know that they just traded for Zimmerman.
 
I may not be a smart man, but I'm not dumb enough to fall for my own joke
 

notfar

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 17, 2008
2,415
Pretty sure Goodell isn't going to be invited over the Kraft's house anymore.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
SeoulSoxFan said:

 
Volin on AC360. BV is going to squeeze every second on the national face time as he can. He can do that of course, it's all in the game, but I do feel this urge to grab the largest paper clip and put'em on his snout. 
 
Don't worry. No one gives a shit about CNN
 

OnWisc

Microcosmic
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2006
7,589
Chicago, IL
SeoulSoxFan said:

 
Volin on AC360. BV is going to squeeze every second on the national face time as he can. He can do that of course, it's all in the game, but I do feel this urge to grab the largest paper clip and put'em on his snout. 
Are you sure that's not Papelbon's older, fatter brother?
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,859
This is going to drop at halftime. Isn't it?

With the release being under a paragraph
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,480
Oregon
twibnotes said:
But the media fellates the MFYs
 
Because the Joe Torre types buddied up to the media. Don't underestimate the media frustration with having to deal with Belichick
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,713
Here
I'm still trying to figure out that headline. "Evidence supports football suspicions." The evidence supports that there is reason for an investigation? No way!
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,606
SeoulSoxFan said:

 
Volin on AC360. BV is going to squeeze every second on the national face time as he can. He can do that of course, it's all in the game, but I do feel this urge to grab the largest paper clip and put'em on his snout. 
Yikes. Dude's for a face for message boarding.