#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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twibnotes

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Kull said:
 
Unbelievable. What comes after farce? Because that's where this is. NOW we know why the league/officials were distraught.
Picturing the NFL execs watching "back to the future"...

"There has to be a way we can get those balls back"
 

DJnVa

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Ed Hillel said:
Volin:

Should be easy enough to measure the backup balls now, one would think. If the backups are also under, that would answer it. Unless they were stupid enough not to confiscate those.
 
So, the NFL is clarifying things, but, as of yet hasn't clarified the two things we're all wondering:
 
1--did they use gauges before the game
2--how much air actually was lost.
 

DJnVa

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SeoulSoxFan said:

 
Volin on AC360. BV is going to squeeze every second on the national face time as he can. He can do that of course, it's all in the game, but I do feel this urge to grab the largest paper clip and put'em on his snout. 
 
 
So next year, the only reporters the Pats will be talking to is Kyed and SoSHCentral.
 

Kull

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And this sudden revelation was right there in the NFL statement all along:
 
While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated.
 
 
How did we miss that?
 
 

djbayko

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Ed Hillel said:
@BenVolin: NFL clarifies that the officials re-inflated the original footballs at halftime, and that they didn’t use the backup balls
 
Ugh, what a shit show.  This is Exhibit A as to why I put little faith in any media leaks.  Either they make shit up, their sources are sketchy, or information is lost in translation.
 
But let's play along.  Now this puts Peter King's report from last night into question:
 
 
  • All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.
 
No, re-inflating the NE footballs at halftime should result in a correct pressure reading at the end of the game because the balls would have been inflated while at game temperature.  This re-open so many discussions that I don't want to get into.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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E5 Yaz

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collardio said:
I'm bracing myself for the lockdown order that will inevitably be issued tonight so that authorities can carry out the manhunt for Stevie from Brockton
Check all backyard boats covered with tarps
 

SeoulSoxFan

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djbayko said:
No, re-inflating the NE footballs at halftime should result in a correct pressure reading at the end of the game because the balls would have been inflated while at game temperature.  This re-open so many discussions that I don't want to get into.
 
Like the tiny details like the Pats never filmed practices, teams were allowed to film games but not at certain locations, every team was filming games, this important but too-late-and-gets-in-the-storyline nugget will be quickly blow everyone by. 
 
Including Volin. 
 

ifmanis5

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I wonder if Roger's lack of action this week is part of his punishment.
 
He likely has nothing conclusive so why not let the Pats twist in the media shitstorm while he shelters himself from scrutiny? There's been zero drumbeat to have Roger do anything from either the public or the media and since the country is enjoying this epic week-long hate fuck sesh, why not let it ride.
 

tims4wins

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djbayko said:
 
Ugh, what a shit show.  This is Exhibit A as to why I put little faith in any media leaks.  Either they make shit up, their sources are sketchy, or information is lost in translation.
 
But let's play along.  Now this puts Peter King's report from last night into question:
 
No, re-inflating the NE footballs at halftime should result in a correct pressure reading at the end of the game because the balls would have been inflated while at game temperature.  This re-open so many discussions that I don't want to get into.
That assumes they were pumped back up indoors and not outdoors right? If officials were in locker room wouldn't it have happened indoors?
 

E5 Yaz

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ifmanis5 said:
I wonder if Roger's lack of action this week is part of his punishment.
 
He likely has nothing conclusive so why not let the Pats twist in the media shitstorm while he shelters himself from scrutiny? There's been zero drumbeat to have Roger do anything from either the public or the media and since the country is enjoying this epic week-long hate fuck sesh, why not let it ride.
 
Which is why his spech and press conference next week will be popcorn-worthy
 

pappymojo

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Things I think:

The NFL is stupid to have a rule with such a limited psi range in a league that includes both indoor and outdoor stadiums and the NFL is stupid to test for the psi indoors regardless of where the game is to be played.

It is crazy that the odds on favorite to win the MVP award this year has admitted publicly that he purposefully submits over-inflated balls to the officials because sometimes they don't check and yet the idea that the Patriots balls were under-inflated is a bigger story.

It blows my mind that after the fiasco when the Ray Race video broke that validated Mort's anonymous source but invalidated King's anonymous source where both sources described seeing the video and where the NFL then later denied having seen the video anyone in the media puts any value into anything that is said by an anonymous NFL source.
 

Hoya81

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If they just inflated the balls at halftime, whats the likelihood that they wrote down and kept exact PSI for each ball? Or did they just report back to the league that the balls were low and they pumped them back up?

At that point, it's just the word of the referees, right?
 

lambeau

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I don't like this. Goodell has hired a firm of ex-federal agents who spent three days in Boston interviewing 40 people, but not TB12. The lawyers here will know better, but my layman's understanding is that the target of an investigation is often approached last.
The wisdom of Tom speaking freely to the media for thirty minutes has been questioned. I wonder who's advising him.
 

wiffleballhero

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Where is CBS and their millions of cameras in all of this? It still strikes me as odd that they have said nothing. I mean, it would even be a blockbuster story for them to 'find' that 800 hours of their own video shows nothing. And if they have the smoking needle, that would be gold. 
 

E5 Yaz

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lambeau said:
I don't like this. Goodell has hired a firm of ex-federal agents who spent three days in Boston interviewing 40 people, but not TB12. The lawyers here will know better, but my layman's understanding is that the target of an investigation is often approached last.
The wisdom of Tom speaking freely to the media for thirty minutes has been questioned. I wonder who's advising him.
 
They haven't spoken to any player yet. And every player they do will have a union rep with them during the interview
 

Leather

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lambeau said:
I don't like this. Goodell has hired a firm of ex-federal agents who spent three days in Boston interviewing 40 people, but not TB12. The lawyers here will know better, but my layman's understanding is that the target of an investigation is often approached last.
The wisdom of Tom speaking freely to the media for thirty minutes has been questioned. I wonder who's advising him.
Now this is a little paranoid.
 

twibnotes

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E5 Yaz said:
 
Because the Joe Torre types buddied up to the media. Don't underestimate the media frustration with having to deal with Belichick
Totally - that's what it's all about
 

Harry Hooper

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tims4wins said:
That assumes they were pumped back up indoors and not outdoors right? If officials were in locker room wouldn't it have happened indoors?
 
 
Right, but if they had to dash in and out at halftime, not much time to warm the balls up.  {Yes, add your joke here.}
 

NWsoxophile

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Van Everyman said:
One of the other odd obfuscations in the NFL statement is:



Was this some anonymous tip? A member of the Colts? Why can't they actually say what triggered the investigation?
Apparently snitching on a snitch is bad form.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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ifmanis5 said:
I wonder if Roger's lack of action this week is part of his punishment.
 
He likely has nothing conclusive so why not let the Pats twist in the media shitstorm while he shelters himself from scrutiny? There's been zero drumbeat to have Roger do anything from either the public or the media and since the country is enjoying this epic week-long hate fuck sesh, why not let it ride.
 
You have got something here.  Roger knows he is going to catch holy hell from everyone outside of Pats-land when he is forced to announce the NFL cannot determine how or if the balls were deflated because they cannot say with any certainty what the initial pressure readings were due to ref oversight.  This prolonged evisceration by the rage-aholic media is the punishment.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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lambeau said:
I don't like this. Goodell has hired a firm of ex-federal agents who spent three days in Boston interviewing 40 people, but not TB12. The lawyers here will know better, but my layman's understanding is that the target of an investigation is often approached last.
The wisdom of Tom speaking freely to the media for thirty minutes has been questioned. I wonder who's advising him.
Brady picked the balls he wanted before the game, they were approved by the refs, and he had limited contact with them after that.  The refs' insistence that the balls were good to go is his best friend right now.  Any alleged involvement after that his a he-said, he-said proposition.
 

Dropkick Izzy

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SeoulSoxFan said:
 

 
Shaq to Chuck: "if the world ends, you can go inside my house and in my safe there's be 4 rings and Kenny's 2" ROFL
 
Add Kenny Smith & Chuck on the green list. 
Worth the price of admission!
 

jimbobim

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ifmanis5 said:
I wonder if Roger's lack of action this week is part of his punishment.
 
He likely has nothing conclusive so why not let the Pats twist in the media shitstorm while he shelters himself from scrutiny? There's been zero drumbeat to have Roger do anything from either the public or the media and since the country is enjoying this epic week-long hate fuck sesh, why not let it ride.
This is an idea I'm getting behind more and more. 
 
Roger and the NFL would absolutely love for the media questions at his big end of his terrible year presser to be all about the proper investigation they are doing ,putting the violation in context, and hopefully providing more information or evidence. He gets to protect the shield and avoid being hounded about the litany of issues he's messed up over the year. 
 

djbayko

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tims4wins said:
That assumes they were pumped back up indoors and not outdoors right? If officials were in locker room wouldn't it have happened indoors?
 
I considered that, but half time is only, what, 15 minutes?  Even assuming they brought the balls indoors right at the half (t=0 minutes), they'd probably need to start pumping soon after.  The balls wouldn't have enough time to equalize with room temp.
 

OnWisc

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ifmanis5 said:
I wonder if Roger's lack of action this week is part of his punishment.
 
He likely has nothing conclusive so why not let the Pats twist in the media shitstorm while he shelters himself from scrutiny? There's been zero drumbeat to have Roger do anything from either the public or the media and since the country is enjoying this epic week-long hate fuck sesh, why not let it ride.
My initial read was that even Goodell wasn't that shortsighted, and that he simply missed an opportunity earlier this week to dismiss this outright and needed to take a few days to cover his bases once it blew up.

In the wake of Kraft's comments about the NFL showing up in New England like the fucking FBI in Mississippi Burning, I'm now feeling that Goodell is like the Maginot Line of commissioners, utterly unable to deal with the fluid nature of crises and always fighting the last war.
 

Peak Oil Can Boyd

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Since we're all hanging to the hope that the refs half-assed the pre-inspection, how is the following language not definitive that the PSI levels were measured accurately?  Because the words "pressure gauge" aren't present?
 
The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.
 
 

doc

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djbayko said:
 
Ugh, what a shit show.  This is Exhibit A as to why I put little faith in any media leaks.  Either they make shit up, their sources are sketchy, or information is lost in translation.
 
But let's play along.  Now this puts Peter King's report from last night into question:
 
No, re-inflating the NE footballs at halftime should result in a correct pressure reading at the end of the game because the balls would have been inflated while at game temperature.  This re-open so many discussions that I don't want to get into.
Assuming a powered pump doesn't pump in heated air.
 

E5 Yaz

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OnWisc said:
My initial read was that even Goodell wasn't that shortsighted, and that he simply missed an opportunity earlier this week to dismiss this outright and needed to take a few days to cover his bases once it blew up.

In the wake of Kraft's comments about the NFL showing up in New England like the fucking FBI in Mississippi Burning, I'm now feeling that Goodell is the Maginot Line of commissioners, utterly unable to deal with the fluid nature of crises and always fighting the last war.
 
True, even after Kravitz relayed the tip he received, Goodell could have ended this within hours had he had the smarts. My guess is that he never believed this shitstorm would happen
 

Koufax

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Yes.  There is a big difference between "inspected" and "measured", which is what they did at half-time.
 

djbayko

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Hoya81 said:
If they just inflated the balls at halftime, whats the likelihood that they wrote down and kept exact PSI for each ball? Or did they just report back to the league that the balls were low and they pumped them back up?

At that point, it's just the word of the referees, right?
 
They likely didn't write down the PSI readings because they didn't think it was a big deal at the time.  I say this because, if they thought it was a big deal, they would have preserved the balls as-is and instead swapped in the backup balls, as the original report suggested.
 

djbayko

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Peak Oil Can Boyd said:
Since we're all hanging to the hope that the refs half-assed the pre-inspection, how is the following language not definitive that the PSI levels were measured accurately?  Because the words "pressure gauge" aren't present?
 
 
Read this sentence again in a quiet room.  Does it make sense to you?  Would you word it this way or be more direct?  IANAL and this was immediately the most curious / suspicuous part of the statement.  At least 1 lawyer already picked this statement apart upthread.
 
 
 
Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.
 

OnWisc

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E5 Yaz said:
 
He's been doing it for a couple of days. Even asked Dennis Miller what he thought
The question is whether Goodell will take any action before Dennis Miller finishes his answer.
 

djbayko

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doc said:
Assuming a powered pump doesn't pump in heated air.
 
Also considered. They aren't inflating the entire volume of the ball with indoor, heated air.  They are only pumping in enough air to raise the pressure by 2 psi (if that report is to be believed).
 

pappymojo

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Peak Oil Can Boyd said:
Since we're all hanging to the hope that the refs half-assed the pre-inspection, how is the following language not definitive that the PSI levels were measured accurately?  Because the words "pressure gauge" aren't present?
 
This has been explained. 'Prior to the game...' actually means 'prior to any game...' in lawyer language. They are not saying they tested to the 12.5-13.5 standard before the Pats game. They are saying that they tested to the same standard that they test to for any game.
 

pappymojo

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Peak Oil Can Boyd said:
Since we're all hanging to the hope that the refs half-assed the pre-inspection, how is the following language not definitive that the PSI levels were measured accurately?  Because the words "pressure gauge" aren't present?
 
This has been explained. 'Prior to the game...' could mean 'prior to any game...' in lawyer language. They are not saying they tested to the 12.5-13.5 standard before the Pats game. They are saying that they tested to the same standard that they test to for any game.

Corrected wording.
 

DominicJD

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So, parsing the NFL statement that "under-inflated footballs" were used in the first half, and then "properly inflated" for the second half and "remained properly inflated" at the conclusion of the game, isn't it possible that the Colts submitted game time balls at 13.5 while the Pats submitted at 12.5? Both are "properly inflated" for inspection at the start of the game.
 
Since the refs and players aren't physicists, none of them think about the possible shrinkage which will make the Pats balls non-compliant at the half.
 
At the half, the Colts complain and the balls are measured to be 12.5 (Colts) and 11.5 (Pats) -- now the Pats balls are "under-inflated" and by "2 pounds" off the high-end of the requirement (where the Colts had submitted their game time balls)? Both sets of balls are then "properly inflated" back up to 13.5 -- leading to game concluding pressures of 12.5 "remaining properly inflated"?
 
Given that the definition of "properly inflated" means between 12.5 and 13.5psi, doesn't this scenario make the most sense?
 
This seems to fit all of the rumors (lack of specific information regarding "properly inflated", "2 pounds off" - of the high-end of the spec) and facts (no evidence of anyone messing with the balls) while staying within the bounds of reasonable.