Why don't you just post your experiment and we'll watch with our kids?njnesportsfan said:
BTW, I hope beer is involved.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
BTW, I hope beer is involved.
patinorange said:
Because what Aaron Rodgers said isn't possible if every single game ball in every single NFL game is tested with a gauge. Until the NFL says that the Patriots balls were gauge tested before the game and not simply handled for feel, people are going to be skeptical/cling to the hope that that's the explanation this whole thing needs.
Physics is never my strong suit (very good with math though). The main test is about the gauges and how that interacts with the changing pressure. That's why I bought 3 (they are not as pricey as the football).soxfan80000001 said:
Man, I had a cockamamie "The footballs must have been approved, THEN SWAPPED OUT for another bag of balls" theory proposed to me.
I just went: "So if they had successfully approved balls, WHY NOT JUST USE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!"
I just went: "So if they had successfully approved balls, WHY NOT JUST USE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!"
patinorange said:
I think the point is you don't really need the gauge. The ref picks up the ball, he squeezes the ball, and if it feels ok to the touch, the ref says they are fine.
That might have happened.
Thinking about it... My wife doesn't like (or actually hate) the idea we post any live videos anywhere...Ferm Sheller said:
Norm Siebern said:
And of course, tomorrow's lesson will cover "innocent until proven guilty", "not jumping to conclusions", and "mob mentality". Except, probably not.
soxfan80000001 said:
Physics doesn't tell you how an assortment of gauges are calibrated/what their margin of error is, nor how much air is let out in the process of measuring the ball.
This would be excellent. As long as you remember that physics isn't looking foolish, your family is.Ferm Sheller said:
It is a bit curious that the NFL hasn't leaked this important bit of information - particularly when they have specifically said gauges were used at halftime. And PK this afternoon specifically tweeted that he did not know if they used gauges pre-game. So until it gets clarified, it's a very legitimate question.patinorange said:
In answer to your question about the NFL, I think they've done a pretty good job proving that they are a bunch of idiots on just about everything.
Yep after five days this is where I'm at also. No sting. Colts probably noticed the intercepted balls in the November game were underinflated and tested them. When they got the ball they intercepted ball in the AFCCG they tested it, determined it was underinflated and notified the officials hoping the gamesmenship might help them out (at that point they were down 17-0) and they whole things has spiraled out of control with the leak to Kravitz.dcmissle said:
I don't see how the balls could be deflated in ten minutes without some type of Ocean's Eleven type planning. The balls were presented to the refs underinflated and they missed them.
I also think the League passing the investigation off to third parties will probably include investigating the ref's strories for veracity if they haven't come clean already.
DavidTai said:
I hate to tell you this, but that's a way to beat the system. Save the balls that the ref signed from previous games, pump them to your magic number, and swap them in for the balls the ref signed 2 hours before the game. As long as the ref uses the same mark as before, you've done it.
patinorange said:
And people should keep asking this question until it is answered. Why wouldn't the NFL answer it today, in a statement they've had over 4 days to prepare? And why instead did they seem to play word games and tap dance around the issue?
People have already answered your bolded question 1000 times here. In the history of footbal, until Sunday night, nobody cared about the exact pressure of the football as long as it looked and behaved like a football. Some refs, on certain days, in certain moods, with lots of other important responsibilities, might cut corners and "inspect" the balls by hand.
Prodigal Sox said:
Can we pin this as the Occam's Razor theory at the start of the thread? I think a few people have proposed this, and it makes the most sense. The refs were trying to protect their jobs because they had no idea how this would blow up and now everyone's got a problem that the NFL can't easily solve without creating all kinds of issues (lying and incompetent refs, Pats submitted underinflated balls (as everyone does), etc.).
No, but thankfully in addition to physics, some supplementary common sense can be used. For example, common sense would dictate that the pressure of the ball be measured at the same temperature, both before and after the experiment to see if there was any air loss. I guess though, at this point, common sense is probably too much to expect, yes?SumnerH said:
Here's another thing about deflating the balls post inspection: wouldn't it be risky in terms of ending up with a ball brady doesn't like?
In other words, if you are in the habit of inflating for inspection, then deflating back to Brady's preferred psi, how is that done without drawing attention?
In other words, if you are in the habit of inflating for inspection, then deflating back to Brady's preferred psi, how is that done without drawing attention?
That's the thing: deflating the balls is so high risk, both in terms of getting caught and fucking them up, that it just flat out makes no sense. That's especially so given the completely benign impact such a maneuver would have on the ball/passes.
I'm other words: it's been reported that the alleged deflation has virtually no actual benefit. Ergo; you'd have to think that, at one of the million practices Brady has attended, he'd ask himself if it was even worth it, test out some other balls, find there was no difference between a 10.5 and 12.5 ball, and NOT ENGAGE IN SUCH A STUPID SUBTERFUGE.
It would be awesome if the "inspection" was anything besides a gauge. I just can't believe they would be that stupid. We can hope.djbayko said:
That's where I'm at. When I first heard this story my mind went to tampering after the pre-game inspection - in the locker room with a gauge. That assumed the sop of getting the balls back 2 hours before the game. But when I heard the Pats got the balls 10 minutes before kickoff, the idea of tampering becomes very illogical. For one thing, you now know something is up and the refs might be watching. Second, you'd have to do it on the field, in full view, with no time to do it, and in an uncontrolled environment. Doesn't make sense.drleather2001 said:
The NFL is basically looking for any iota of evidence that would get the refs/NFL off the hook.nattysez said:
I mean, we had video on the sidelines in a regular season game between two of the worst teams in the league of a ball being put in a heater. How would we not have video in the AFC championship of this happening on the field? The teams are already out there 10 minutes before kickoff. Nobody's going to notice someone in there with a pressure gauge deflating the balls? Because, if Mort's report is to be believed (and I don't), then to get 11 of 12 balls to uniformly 2 pounds under is going to be pretty fucking obvious tampering.
I believe you've incorporated at least two unsupported assumptions into your post. You don't need a pressure gauge to deflate - just a needle. And I am unaware of any support for the notion that the 11 balls were uniformly 2 psi under the limit. Even taking the hearsay in Mort's post at face value, it's not clear whether the 2 psi value is an average or something else. Certainly, no standard deviation was given.PBDWake said:
As an addendum to the above, if Mort's report is true, and 11 out of 12 balls were 2 PSI under, and pretty much uniformly, instead of just all over the map and lazily reported, and the NFL report of being held til 10 minutes before kickoff is to be believed? Isn't, once again, the Occam's Razor response for not just this, but also the press conferences the Pats gave, that the refs fucked up? I mean, complete denial, total cooperation makes a ton of sense if you presented under inflated balls for the checkup. You KNOW that there is going to be zero evidence of tampering post inspection, and there are no witnesses for it, because it didn't happen. The reported PSI is what you gave to the refs pregame. You know that the league could spend the next 10 years investigating and not get a lick of evidence.
My girlfriend just called me after work and the first thing she says is "how can you root for a team that cheats like that?". I know she's aware that I'm a Patriots fan, but the fact that this shit made the news here in fucking Brazil is incomprehensible to me. The headline in the country's biggest news site is literally "Cheating".
Wilson Sporting Goods Co.
8750 W. Bryn Mawr Ave
Chicago, Illinois 60631 USA
Dear Wilson Sporting Goods,
My friends and I were having a conversation about over & under inflated footballs, and we were curious how the specification of
13 PSI +/- 0.5 PSI was determined by the National Football league.
Does Wilson recommended specific pressure gauges and a methodology that can reliably control this range of pressure?
If so, could you please let me know, and CC the NFL, they seem to be in a bit of a bind and i wanted to help them out!
Best regards,
A valued customer
8750 W. Bryn Mawr Ave
Chicago, Illinois 60631 USA
Dear Wilson Sporting Goods,
My friends and I were having a conversation about over & under inflated footballs, and we were curious how the specification of
13 PSI +/- 0.5 PSI was determined by the National Football league.
Does Wilson recommended specific pressure gauges and a methodology that can reliably control this range of pressure?
If so, could you please let me know, and CC the NFL, they seem to be in a bit of a bind and i wanted to help them out!
Best regards,
A valued customer
Sorry, I expounded on that in my next post. I'm just saying that the assumptions everyone seems to be basing their tossed grenades on indicate an, as previously phrased, "Ocean's Eleven level" operation. People talk about 11 balls 2 pounds under. To get that, you'd need something to measure. I doubt it's getting freehanded.Kevin Youkulele said:
PeaceSignMoose said:
She doesn't even know what a touchdown is, I'll cut her some slack. Still, she's about as knowledgeable as your average hardcore american football fan, it seems.
riboflav said:
Besides, wouldn't puncturing a ball with a needle mean the balls would keep deflating?
I keep coming back to the first meeting between the two teams, and that's where I feel like the Colts should be more of a part of the investigation.
If it's true that the Colts suspected the Patriots were using footballs that weren't up to regulations after the first game, why didn't they report it then? That part of the story bothers me.
They had no way of knowing for sure they would play the Patriots in the conference finals, so holding onto this information indicates to me that they were never interested in the integrity of the game. If they were, they would have said something then.
If they did report it, then why didn't the NFL contact the Patriots and let them know?
If it's true that the Colts suspected the Patriots were using footballs that weren't up to regulations after the first game, why didn't they report it then? That part of the story bothers me.
They had no way of knowing for sure they would play the Patriots in the conference finals, so holding onto this information indicates to me that they were never interested in the integrity of the game. If they were, they would have said something then.
If they did report it, then why didn't the NFL contact the Patriots and let them know?