#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Section15Box113

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The only things that would make any difference are a complete reversal from Goodell or an unequivocal win in federal court.

The former will never happen, IMO. And even if somehow it did, it would have only limited benefit since much of the nation would play it as Goodell caving to his good friend Bob Kraft.

The latter would be significant, even if it failed to get headlines and much of the nation did not pay attention. At a minimum, we would at least have the talking point that the team and Brady were found to be 100% innocent and everything was thrown out due to overzealous bullshit on the part of Goodell's lackeys.

Of course, even that wouldn't appease the haters.

We will be hearing about this for years.
 

TheoShmeo

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ifmanis5 said:
Probably never, unless Mort gives up his source and goes into detail about who, when and why. But that will never happen. We will also likely never know about the rumored late momentum where the Wells report was going to feature a large portion dedicated to the NFL's investigation and the Colts' alleged shady doings. As we now know, all of that was either false flags from SoV and the like or they were totally quashed out by Roger.
 
Even if the Pats win all of their appeals and Brady serves no suspension time, the public opinion will always default to Cheatriots. Nothing is going to change that. Not science, not law and certainly not common sense.
This is largely true. 
 
But if I am in Tom's shoes, I realize that life is long and that there may come a time in the future that more sensible people take a more nuanced view than "I hate da Cheatriots," and the message I get across over the next several months may play into that.  I don't simply throw up my hands and say "haters gonna hate," even while that's true in many cases.
 
My experiences are just that, mine, but several of my friends and colleagues at work have softened their views when I presented just a few basic facts to them.  The hard core Jets and Giants fans have not.  What I am getting is that not everyone with superficial views on DeflateGate is created equally, and Brady and the people handling probably know this.
 
Make no mistake, job one is winning and other football focused stuff, and the immediate job is the appeal.  But that doesn't make being mindful of moderating perceptions, at least on a long term basis, something they should just entirely blow off as irretrievable. 
 

ivanvamp

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Big fucking deal, if this is the price of success fuck them all. The Pats, BB and TB need to go on a tear and curb stomp the entire league. On to #5.
It bothers me that my favorite team will always be viewed this way but the bottom line is that there's nothing I can do about that. If actual science can't get people's minds straight then yeah, screw it.

Just rejoice in the greatest team in NFL history, and a situation that every other team's fans would kill to have.
 

amarshal2

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The AboveTheLaw.com email debate has been updated a little bit:
 
http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/
 
tl;dr: 
 
All NFL fanbases should be gravely concerned about this. What should teams and players do if they think they are being railroaded? 
I truly have no idea under the NFL system what is an effective, collaborative way of contesting investigations and punishments if you truly believe you've been done wrong. 
It's like a Choose Your Own Adventure story where all the outcomes are bad. 
 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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bluefenderstrat said:
Kraft has to explore any options regarding the team sanctions at this point, right? I mean, irreparable damage has and will continur to be done to his business as a result of this sting operation.
 
Like what?  Are Pats fans going to turn on the team?   Or are fans of the Dolphins, Jets and other teams going to make fun of Patriot fans?  Because that was happening long before this whole silly situation arose.
 

RG33

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ivanvamp said:
It bothers me that my favorite team will always be viewed this way but the bottom line is that there's nothing I can do about that. If actual science can't get people's minds straight then yeah, screw it.
Just rejoice in the greatest team in NFL history, and a situation that every other team's fans would kill to have.
It really doesn't bother me at all what fans of other teams think of the Patriots. They will always use the "Cheatriots" mantra, and every single away game will have "Brady Cheat-ed" chants all year long. I'm officially embracing the NWO factor and choosing to instead focus on making the people that say things directly to me about it look like idiots. The "tell me what Spygate was" question is the first and easiest one to go with. I've had 15-20 conversations with people about this in the last week, with differing levels of hatred/animosity towards the Pats/Pats fans, and every single person except for one said "taping other team's PRACTICES". The one person who did not, said "I don't know.". Most are legit sports fans, with half being rabid fans. It just is what it is with respect to the PR side of things. That ship sailed after Spygate, and arguably is the main reason we have "DeflateGate". So, just enjoy showing people how uninformed they are and bask in the 4th Superbowl Championship of the best organization that the NFL has ever seen.
 

Myt1

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Ed Hillel said:
While that is pretty damning evidence of the Wells Report's lies by omission, it's also pretty clear that the PFT report of offering to make McNally available for a phone interview is incorrect.  Because that would absolutely be in there.
 
It's tough to see how Wells has any credibility at all concerning the non-cooperation issue.  He'd get a serious talking to in open court for pulling something like this in that context, even as an advocate.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Myt1 said:
While that is pretty damning evidence of the Wells Report's lies by omission, it's also pretty clear that the PFT report of offering to make McNally available for a phone interview is incorrect.  Because that would absolutely be in there.
 
It's tough to see how Wells has any credibility at all concerning the non-cooperation issue.  He'd get a serious talking to in open court for pulling something like this in that context, even as an advocate.
 
I kept looking for that too.  The closest thing seems to be when Goldberg keeps repeating that if PW wants more info from McNally, the team will consider the request and figure out a way to make that happen.  Maybe there was a followup phone call between the lawyers where they floated the phone interview idea or maybe they just made it up and gave it to Florio.
 
The other interesting thing about these emails is that the Patriots clearly knew what PW was up to because PW did a follow up with Jastremski previously and played the same sort of gotcha game, justifying the interview based on "new" evidence that had come to light but then not asking him about anything that wasn't already in their possession. 
 
Two conclusions from that:
 
(1) It seems to me that PW fucked up, not only in failing to ask about the pre-season texts in initial interviews while assuming they could go back but also in reinterviewing Jastremski before McNally.  If they were going to play that kind of game, they should have reinterviewed McNally first since he's the one that actually authored those texts.
 
(2) If they did ask Jastremski about the deflator and ESPN texts in that reinterview, I'd love to know what he said.  As far as I can see, the Wells Report mentions nothing about the interpretation given to those texts by him.
 

E5 Yaz

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kartvelo said:
Meh. Assumes guilt, says Pats have no credibility, while criticizing Roger.
 
I disagree with your assessment. Does LeBetard's piece exonerate the Patriots? No, but I wouldn't expect it to. Does it focus rather on Goodell's self-interest and sociopathic need to put himself in the best possible light? Absolutely. Heck, it even brings up the Aaron Rodgers comment about over-inflating footballs.
 
If this perspective starts to have more of a presence on ESPN platforms, that's a good thing.
 

WayBackVazquez

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amarshal2 said:
"It reads like advocacy. Like what a prosecutor might put together. Or like some message board guy who only puts facts together that support his point of view."

She'd better not post that kind of stuff around here, lest she get a talking to by Theo and Otis for slandering the honorable Paul Weiss.
 

uncannymanny

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snowmanny said:
You are probably right.  Screw them all.
I get where you were going and am just playing the other side as it's been pretty obviously defined. It's infuriating.

The mistake being made here and in other sympathetic places is that a plausible, logical explanation will turn the media and other fanbases around. There is no logic, rationality or reality in the responses.
 

glennhoffmania

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E5 Yaz said:
 
I disagree with your assessment. Does LeBetard's piece exonerate the Patriots? No, but I wouldn't expect it to. Does it focus rather on Goodell's self-interest and sociopathic need to put himself in the best possible light? Absolutely. Heck, it even brings up the Aaron Rodgers comment about over-inflating footballs.
 
If this perspective starts to have more of a presence on ESPN platforms, that's a good thing.
 
Exactly.  Just because a piece doesn't claim that the Patriots are innocent doesn't mean it's inherently flawed.
 

djbayko

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
I kept looking for that too.  The closest thing is seems to be when Goldberg keeps repeating that if PW wants more info from McNally, the team will consider the request and figure out a way to make that happen.  Maybe there was a followup phone call between the lawyers where they floated the phone interview idea or maybe they just made it up and gave it to Florio.
 
The other interesting thing about these emails is that the Patriots clearly knew what PW was up to because PW did a follow up with Jastremski previously and played the same sort of gotcha game, justifying the interview based on "new" evidence that had come to light but then not asking him about anything new at all.  It seems to me that PW fucked up, not only in failing to ask about the pre-season texts in interviews but also in reinterviewing Jastremski before McNally.  If they were going to play that kind of game, they should have reinterviewed McNally first since he's the one that actually authored those texts.
It doesn't necessarily disprove the Florio story. In fact, it DOES mention the part about a league source leaking his name and address. Maybe phone interview is one compromise the Pats had worked out with McNally but they didn't offer it up to Wells because he wouldn't...you know...answer their f-ing question.
 

J.McG

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That's where the NFL is complicit in this, during those two weeks they did absolutely nothing but leak misinformation. They could have easily shot down the 11/12 2psi report, but they let it linger while the team was preparing for the Super Bowl.
Not only that, but the league/Wells refused to provide the Patriots with the actual recorded halftime PSI measurements for MORE THAN TWO MONTHS, per Goldberg's rebuttal. Even when the league finally relented and provided the measurements on March 23 (long after Wells had wrapped up his interviews, conveniently enough), it was on the condition that the Patriots not disclose them, which likely precluded the Pats from hiring their own outside consultants to prepare a study in their defense.

Instead the league essentially forced the Pats into a disadvantageous position of having to respond to Wells' inquiries under the assumption that the evidence they were up against was far more damning that it actually was (i.e. 10 of 11 balls @ 10.5 PSI or under, incl. 1 @ 10.1 PSI; all Colts balls within range, etc). Not to mention, the leaked & misreported PSI measurements from the league were all well below the range of those predicted by the ideal gas law (conveniently enough, once again), thereby undermining what now appears to be the Patriots' best defense.

I'm no lawyer, but how can the NFL/Wells claim this was a fair & ethical investigation with a straight face? What legitimate reason did they have for withholding the actual halftime measurements for that length of time, other than a deliberate attempt to undercut the Patriots defense both in response to Wells and in the court of public opinion?
 

dcmissle

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With the straight face of John Houseman, with a wagging index finger providing appropriate emphasis.

But what are, effing Chicomms around here? Lone wolf voices provide support, but they are suspect because they think the Pats are guilty??

Lol. Maybe WE ought to be outfitted with the red uniform and the star. When you have been mugged and your assailant is pissing on you as you lie in the curb, you should be grateful to those who try to halt the pissing.
 

Myt1

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WayBackVazquez said:
"It reads like advocacy. Like what a prosecutor might put together. Or like some message board guy who only puts facts together that support his point of view."

She'd better not post that kind of stuff around here, lest she get a talking to by Theo and Otis for slandering the honorable Paul Weiss.
I think both of those guys have come around on that point.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It depends on whether one believes Wells had particular duties in his report; if he had submitted that to a court as a special master, given what has come out about (as one example) the specific discussions around witnesses appearing twice, I think he'd have to do some explaining.  If he is solely an advocate here, and this is an advocacy piece in all directions, I think any PR stuff is just a nuisance.

The purpose of the exploration, though, to be clear is not that I think at the end of the process it is likely there'll be sanctionable conduct. It is to explore what occurred, given the surface impression of misrepresentation, in a forum that will more quickly dig under the initial papers.
 

Myt1

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
I kept looking for that too.  The closest thing seems to be when Goldberg keeps repeating that if PW wants more info from McNally, the team will consider the request and figure out a way to make that happen.  Maybe there was a followup phone call between the lawyers where they floated the phone interview idea or maybe they just made it up and gave it to Florio.
That's possible.  Seems like the sort of thing that would have been memorialized in an e-mail after the call, though.
 
Yeah, we do that.  :(
 

In Vino Vinatieri

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ifmanis5 said:
The Pats lost the PR battle in the 2 weeks before the SB. Getting that back isn't even an option. We're too far down the road for that. Winning in court is all they have left on this matter.
That's a bingo.
 
Overturning the penalties is basically the only way anyone will pay attention to whatever happened. The Wells report is 250 pages of smear and the initial reporting was deliberately slanted by the leaks. There's just too much info for anyone to care about it, and with the general opinion of the Patriots either being outright cheaters (from Spygate) or habitual line-steppers (strange formations, tuck rules, Belichick being sinister and crafty, etc) it's actually kind of ridiculous to expect anyone to feel otherwise. If you ask someone what their opinion is on a subject they have little detailed knowledge of, such as an average football fan about the Patriots, you can't expect a good answer. Do you think Brady might have had something to do with footballs that might have been underinflated? Sure. I mean, they're cheaters already, why wouldn't he?
 
The Wells report does a good job of deflecting attention away from the issues in it to a general observer. It's like a performance of a magic trick, where the magician spends most of his efforts drawing your attention by speaking and using his hands. In the first 50 pages or so a big deal is made of Exponent, Exponent's credentials, and how Exponent's findings cannot explain the footballs used in the game. Exponent is the beautiful assistant demonstrating how the lock is just an ordinary lock which cannot be unlocked without a key, or how the box which is about to be cut in half is just a normal box by piercing it all the way through. Any extraordinary behavior - the magic - cannot be explained by any ordinary viewer's assumptions about reality. That is, you cannot pierce a box with a person laying in it without the person being pierced, and footballs do not lose air on their own.
 
If you're watching carefully enough, though, you can see the trick.
 
 
According to Exponent, regardless of the assumptions made with respect to the gauges used pre-game and at halftime, the measurements recorded for the Patriots game balls at halftime cannot be entirely explained by the Ideal Gas Law (or variations thereof) when applied to the most likely game conditions and circumstances.
It doesn't matter that the Wells Report makes an assumption about which gauge is used, because Exponent's testing shows that it doesn't matter and that something is wrong if either of Anderson's gauges were used. Thus, it's fine for Wells to assume that Anderson's recollection about which gauge he used was wrong because it doesn't affect the conclusion. What about the assumptions about the environment in the locker room, then?
 
 
Our scientific consultants informed us that the data alone did not provide a basis for them to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering, as the analysis of such data is ultimately dependent upon assumptions and information that is uncertain. Based on the testing and analysis, however, Exponent concluded that, within the range of likely game conditions and circumstances studied, they could identify no set of credible environmental or physical factors that completely accounts for the Patriots halftime measurements or for the additional loss in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls, as compared to the loss in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls.
Exponent puts in a disclaimer saying that ultimately it's all dependent upon assumptions and uncertain information, and based on these assumptions there is no credible explanation. The showmanship here is drawing your attention away from the fact that these are assumptions -- they're likely game conditions -- and drawing your attention away from the fact that there might be other likely game conditions which were not studied. With that sleight of hand, uncertain information becomes reality.
 
Of course, these are big time lawyers we're talking about, and Exponent has over 900 employees in 20 states, so they don't want to put their name on logic like that which wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.
 
 
Even putting aside the experimental results, we believe that our conclusions are supported by the evidence in its entirety.
Fifty pages of handwaving and talking about Exponent and how great Exponent is and Exponent say they can't explain it except by tampering, and then -- forget about Exponent. In fact, I'm just going to take Exponent's reports and data and throw it all in the garbage put it in the appendix. You can come up and look in the garbage look in the appendix, but you don't need to because these text messages are the only evidence you need.
 
This is the equivalent of the beautiful Exponent assistant hurrying off the stage with the equipment. You get to examine it closely before the trick, not after.
 

Otis Foster

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Myt1 said:
I think both of those guys have come around on that point.
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
 

PedroKsBambino

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In Vino Vinatieri said:
Fifty pages of handwaving and talking about Exponent and how great Exponent is and Exponent say they can't explain it except by tampering, and then -- forget about Exponent. In fact, I'm just going to take Exponent's reports and data and throw it all in the garbage put it in the appendix. You can come up and look in the garbage look in the appendix, but you don't need to because these text messages are the only evidence you need.
 
This is the equivalent of the beautiful Exponent assistant hurrying off the stage with the equipment. You get to examine it closely before the trick, not after.
 
Yup.  It's kind of amazing that so many people fall for it---presumably because it takes real time and focus to see the deception being played out in front of them.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Otis Foster said:
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
 
I think the press conference and his indignation there brings his objectivity (if not really his integrity) into question, actually.  Obviously, part of the role is to be fervant in your support for your conclusions, but he fell into the "Ken Starr" trap of confusing where he landed with being the only way one could land.  He genuinely did not appear to know the difference, and if that's so it speaks to his objectivity.   I did not at all expect that coming in (i was one of those who said he would't pimp out his name for a relatively small matter here).  I was wrong.
 
To put it another way, I thought he'd recognize reality and write a report that supported what he was asked to do while acknowledging it.  He ended up writing an inferior report that simply ignored reality, and that is beneath what I thought he was.
 

Myt1

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Yeah, like dc said, none of us is batting 1.000 on this.  My own initial assumptions were less about integrity and marching orders than competence and self preservation.  The report is bad business, and I hadn't thought it would go that way.  If I were a justice in a court in which Wells were a repeat player, I'd have a hard time believing him in the future, strictly because of the report's discussion on non-cooperation (which is such a shitty bootstrapping attempt anyway, but I digress).
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Otis Foster said:
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
Doesn't his integrity then come into question when he denies this and doubles down on his independence?

Edit: thanks Pedro
 

dcmissle

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It is wildly optimistic to expect otherwise. Which is why I was amused, when the Pats went ballistic the other morning, by assurances that their manifesto will "sink in."

Be honest. If the Packers were the object of this, how many here would really dig in to the substance? Science buffs, maybe. People like me who are fascinated by Goodell's Putinesque Justice, sure. But that is not a lot of people.

And it should be noted that in my hypothetical, the Packers do not bear the baggage of Spygate or other line stepping. It's really cute to think people are going to break a sweat over this, or us.

Wells could have saved us from any more damage. He didn't. The only thing that could change the narrative now is a guy or gal who has been an insider throughout, is appalled by this miscarriage of justice, and now blows the whistle.
 

ivanvamp

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dcmissle said:
It is wildly optimistic to expect otherwise. Which is why I was amused, when the Pats went ballistic the other morning, by assurances that their manifesto will "sink in."
Be honest. If the Packers were the object of this, how many here would really dig in to the substance? Science buffs, maybe. People like me who are fascinated by Goodell's Putinesque Justice, sure. But that is not a lot of people.
And it should be noted that in my hypothetical, the Packers do not bear the baggage of Spygate or other line stepping. It's really cute to think people are going to break a sweat over this, or us.
Wells could have saved us from any more damage. He didn't. The only thing that could change the narrative now is a guy or gal who has been an insider throughout, is appalled by this miscarriage of justice, and now blows the whistle.
I've said this before but it bears repeating. This is all about Spygate.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Otis Foster said:
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
Yeah, well. Of course that's what I was saying from the beginning, which at the time compelled you to go all Lloyd Bentsen on me, accuse me of defamation, and repeat again and again that this was an impartial investigation.

Otis Foster said:
I know Ted Wells and PW and can tell you that anyone who claims they slanted the report to a desired outcome literally doesn't know jack shit. You can hate the outcome, as I do, but there's no basis for slandering PW.
But it's all good.
 

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WayBackVazquez said:
"I know Ted Wells and PW and can tell you that anyone who claims they slanted the report to a desired outcome literally doesn't know jack shit. You can hate the outcome, as I do, but there's no basis for slandering PW."
 
There are certainly many clients who will see this and be comforted that Ted Wells will do what he needs to to achieve what they ask.  I also think there will be a few who will say that they don't need a PR firm, they need lawyers who understand the landscape and can help them achieve larger objectives, and the highly mixed media coverage this weekend highlights that those clients will look for someone better able to see the bigger picture than Ted Wells has proven to be.
 

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dcmissle said:
we are in a bubble; few are rallying to us, and nobody affiliated with other teams is losing any sleep over this.
 
Would anyone expect any different? I mean, was there a ten-thousand post mutlithread extravaganza about the Saints' bounty penalties?
 

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ivanvamp said:
I've said this before but it bears repeating. This is all about Spygate.
Which in and of it self should've been a fine for having the camera located in the wrong place. This is all about the aftermath of ESPN convincing the entire county that having a camera on the sidelines enabled Belichick to coach NFL games like someone playing Madden with the ability to see the other guys plays.
 

PedroKsBambino

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WayBackVazquez said:
May I ask why you quoted my post (itself a quote from Otis) there? I'm having trouble making the connection.
 
I don't know who wrote it originally and wasn't trying to impugn or rebut anyone---I was just speaking to the relationship between the report and clients. 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Otis Foster said:
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
 
If his mission was to write an advocacy piece but he holds a press conference to declare that it wasn't an advocacy piece but rather an impartial investigation, then doesn't that call his integrity into question?
 

WayBackVazquez

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PedroKsBambino said:
I don't know who wrote it originally and wasn't trying to impugn or rebut anyone---I was just speaking to the relationship between the report and clients.
Yeah, I still don't see it. Doesn't matter, though.
 

dcmissle

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Devizier said:
 
Would anyone expect any different? I mean, was there a ten-thousand post mutlithread extravaganza about the Saints' bounty penalties?
Some people think we can win a PR battle.

Some people think we can win a battle for owners' hearts and minds. This, I think, is how the average owner would speak to this:

"When I win 3 SBs in 6 years (4 actually) or 4 SBs in 15 years, I will worry about it. Meanwhile, this draconian stuff, if anything, benefits me ..."
 

OCST

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dcmissle said:
It is wildly optimistic to expect otherwise. Which is why I was amused, when the Pats went ballistic the other morning, by assurances that their manifesto will "sink in."

Be honest. If the Packers were the object of this, how many here would really dig in to the substance? Science buffs, maybe. People like me who are fascinated by Goodell's Putinesque Justice, sure. But that is not a lot of people.

And it should be noted that in my hypothetical, the Packers do not bear the baggage of Spygate or other line stepping. It's really cute to think people are going to break a sweat over this, or us.


Wells could have saved us from any more damage. He didn't. The only thing that could change the narrative now is a guy or gal who has been an insider throughout, is appalled by this miscarriage of justice, and now blows the whistle.
 
Yes.
 
Random thoughts, in no particular order:
 
  •  the big problem here appears to be the legacy of Spygate.  without that hanging over this whole thing, it's not nearly as bad, either in  the explicit statements of Roger and Troy, or in the court of public opinion.
  •  Which means that: in retrospect, Kraft/NEP  perhaps should have pushed back much, much harder on the penalty and public perception of Spygate.   it is correct that most people just remember that the Pats  paid a big fine for wrongful taping, and the details get lost. The trouble is that the Patriots versus the league, and the Patriots versus the  public, are situated in a long-term relationship,  where the past is prologue.   In my law practice,  I work with licensed individuals in heavily regulated industries.  here's a common scenario:  government agency accuses Licensee  of wrongdoing X.   The accusation is of dubious value; there is some plausibility to it, but there are major holes in Agency's case.  Licensee wants to fight, but doesn't want to risk losing, and doesn't want to antagonize Agency, which regulates his livelihood and has the ability (and demonstrated propensity) to make his life miserable  So, in an effort to keep his license and mitigate damage to his business,  Licensee  signs a  stipulation that he committed wrongdoing Y, a lesser offense, and pays a smaller fine/serves a shorter suspension then he would have if found culpable of X.   Five years later, Agency comes along and accuses him of Z.   The first thing they do is hold up his stipulation, where he essentially pled guilty to Y,  and they scream "REPEAT OFFENDER!!!!!"   even though the guy may have been exonerated if he fought the initial charges, and chose the course of least resistance so as to get on with his business. So now Agency holds the hammer and he's really fucked.   Now, there is no way that any rational person could have foreseen the Deflategate craziness, but, again with 20/20 hindsight, I bet Bob wishes he had fought the Spygate charges a little harder,  so they couldn't be used as the rope to hang him with now.
  •  Not to get all V&N-y,  but  this dynamic, where the general public really doesn't understand the facts, and could give two shits,  and has written the Patriots off anyway -  happens all the time, in matters much more important than whether 22 guys playing a game used a ball with not enough air in it.
 

Leather

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Salem's Lot said:
Which in and of it self should've been a fine for having the camera located in the wrong place. This is all about the aftermath of ESPN convincing the entire county that having a camera on the sidelines enabled Belichick to coach NFL games like someone playing Madden with the ability to see the other guys plays.
What's more, if you try to explain that, it sounds like paranoid or incredible fanboy logic.

It's like mayonnaise, where the harder you try to wipe it off, it just seems to get you greasier and greasier.
 

dcmissle

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Morgan said:
 
If his mission was to write an advocacy piece but he holds a press conference to declare that it wasn't an advocacy piece but rather an impartial investigation, then doesn't that call his integrity into question?
It is even worse than that. Writing an advocacy piece in these circumstances makes you no better than a highly skilled verbal assassin and PR flack, a spiritual son of Lee Atwater.

No self respecting lawyer takes on such an assignment, knowing that he is publishing untruths and half truths. Much less a preening titan of the NY bar.
 

Gorton Fisherman

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lexrageorge said:
The memo referenced the NFL's game procedure manual, which outlines policies to which teams are expected to comply.  The commissioner's office sent the memo out after receiving complaints about both the Patriots and other teams taping from the sideline.  Goodell approved the memo, so teams and coaches were actually obligated to follow the instructions outlined in the memo. 
 
So, genuinely curious: where in the NFL rulebook does it grant the commissioner the power to essentially invent new rules out of whole cloth simply by mentioning them in a memo, without any input from or approval by the teams?
 

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Otis Foster said:
Thnx MYT1. I didn't come around so much on his integrity, I came around on his mission, which was to write an advocacy piece.
 
It was always going to be an advocacy piece: that's the whole point of getting a firm like Paul Weiss to do a job like this.  What surprising is (1)  transparent the advocacy is and (2) that they decided to go out on a limb to nail Brady. 
 

dcmissle

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Shelterdog said:
 
It was always going to be an advocacy piece: that's the whole point of getting a firm like Paul Weiss to do a job like this.  What surprising is (1)  transparent the advocacy is and (2) that they decided to go out on a limb to nail Brady. 
Yes the Brady piece is surprising. The explicit exoneration of BB also strikes me as unnecessary. The Report could have been agnostic on both, and the same team sanctions would have issued. Then lots of people would have walked down CHB road and said both BB and TB ordered the code red.

So why this approach?
 

RetractableRoof

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denilson3 said:
If I were Kraft, I would ask that the other owners have their in-house counsel review the Wells report and the published Patriots documents ahead of this week's owners meetings. A quick brief on how outrageous this whole thing is from an informed third party could really help the discourse about the renegade league office.
Any owner that hasn't already done this is an idiot. But what of the outcome: a) the science is a mess and proves nothing. b) texts are ugly and aren't conclusive but by easiest reading they probably monkeyed wirh the balls. C) zero direct evidence that Brady did anything d) only real obstruction was Brady and he's not bound by the same rules as Kraft e) a serious reach on the punishment.

What does that change or how does it help Kraft?
 

Leather

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Because for all of his bluster, even Goodell doesn't want to have to deal with the prospect of actually banning Bill Belichick, which is what the calls would be if he was explicitly or implicitly implicated in this mess. As for Brady, I think that was a personal issue brought about by Brady's press conference, and the immediate public determination that Brady was "nervous", and hence "guilty of something."

Goodell's awful handling of this thing led to a place where he had to punish Brady, in his mind.

Of course, all of this ignores the fact that Brady is simply not a good public speaker and was probably flustered and, frankly, confused back in January.

It reminds me of a Dylan lyric:

Try to be pure at heart,
They arrest you for robbery.
Mistake your shyness for aloofness, your shyness for snobbery.
Got the message this morning, the one that was sent to me;
About the madness of becoming what one was never meant to be.
 

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dcmissle said:
It is wildly optimistic to expect otherwise. Which is why I was amused, when the Pats went ballistic the other morning, by assurances that their manifesto will "sink in."

Be honest. If the Packers were the object of this, how many here would really dig in to the substance? Science buffs, maybe. People like me who are fascinated by Goodell's Putinesque Justice, sure. But that is not a lot of people.
More today than before.  Put enough stuff out there and people crowdsource to find problems (like the inconsistency in when Wells had the text messages and what he intended to do with them).  I was talking less about the overarching public narrative than letting enough interested people pick at things eventually reaching a cumulative level that might not be perfect, but which can change the conversation at least a bit.  And I think that's happening.  Even ESPN had (some) reporters lauding the depth of the response.
 
It doesn't stop the Munsons or other hacks of the world, but they were going to do their thing anyway.  You cant just let your adversary continue to be the only one presenting its side of the story, which is what's been happening since January.  I'd say that it was a bigger disservice to the narrative to let the NFL leak on its own for so long than to finally punch back.  I know why that happened, but that's what really set things in stone, not the latest decision to release the silly-sounding explanation for "deflator."  Sunk costs and marginal decisions and all that, but still. 
 
You have to arm the Reisses of the world or they won't keep backing you in the face of others being armed by the NFL.
 

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dcmissle said:
Yes the Brady piece is surprising. The explicit exoneration of BB also strikes me as unnecessary. The Report could have been agnostic on both, and the same team sanctions would have issued. Then lots of people would have walked down CHB road and said both BB and TB ordered the code red.

So why this approach?
Because they're bootstrapping the bullshit underlying violation that they can't show with every bit of non-cooperation they can find.  Brady had a direct piece of that, while Belichick didn't.  I've become convinced that's what's going on here.
 

In Vino Vinatieri

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Shelterdog said:
 
It was always going to be an advocacy piece: that's the whole point of getting a firm like Paul Weiss to do a job like this.  What surprising is (1)  transparent the advocacy is and (2) that they decided to go out on a limb to nail Brady. 
That's what's most surprising to me. They pretty blatantly pushed until they could hit an obstruction charge, and as far as I can tell the only reasoning for any Brady involvement is that everyone knows a low-level employee would never do this on his own.
 
It's really telling that the only punishments that anyone is aware of (the Brady suspension, $1 million fine, and draft picks) are all for obstruction.
 

djbayko

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drleather2001 said:
Because for all of his bluster, even Goodell doesn't want to have to deal with the prospect of actually banning Bill Belichick, which is what the calls would be if he was explicitly or implicitly implicated in this mess. As for Brady, I think that was a personal issue brought about by Brady's press conference, and the immediate public determination that Brady was "nervous", and hence "guilty of something."

Goodell's awful handling of this thing led to a place where he had to punish Brady, in his mind.

Of course, all of this ignores the fact that Brady is simply not a good public speaker and was probably flustered and, frankly, confused back in January.

It reminds me of a Dylan lyric:

Try to be pure at heart,
They arrest you for robbery.
Mistake your shyness for aloofness, your shyness for snobbery.
Got the message this morning, the one that was sent to me;
About the madness of becoming what one was never meant to be.
I still don't think think there was anything bad about that PC. I think Brady is well spoken, and he was acting fairly normal, especially given the circumstances. People see what they want to see.
 

dcmissle

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Myt1 said:
Because they're bootstrapping the bullshit underlying violation that they can't show with every bit of non-cooperation they can find.  Brady had a direct piece of that, while Belichick didn't.  I've become convinced that's what's going on here.
But they have the Pats on obstruction, and as flimsy as that is, everyone agrees it is likely to stick because there are no viable avenues to attack it. So again, why Brady?

1. They want to put their thumbs on next season's scale. Parity uber alles. Even for them, that is a stretch. Plus, for two reasons it is unlikely to be effective.

2. They are really pissed at him. Well that's taking this very personal, and they are substantially likely to lose.

3. They want to establish a precedent re general awareness or obligation to surrender personal records. But they don't care about precedent, and they are substantially likely to lose.

Any other thoughts?
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Gorton Fisherman said:
 
So, genuinely curious: where in the NFL rulebook does it grant the commissioner the power to essentially invent new rules out of whole cloth simply by mentioning them in a memo, without any input from or approval by the teams?
Nowhere, but it doesn't matter. If you disagree with the interpretation, you make an official protest and follow it until you are told you can do otherwise. Moreover, you really really need to pick your battles when you're taking on the highest authority in your governing body, and this definitely was not worth it.

Belichick acted like a petulant child and we're still paying for it.