#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Doctor G]

Brady by offering to provide the call logs is not obstructing the investigation. He is quite simply not volunteering to investigate himself.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Can't they get them from Jastremski?
 
Edit: the 3 texts

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Can't they get them from Jastremski?

Apparently not which probably means Jastremski wiped them from his phone as well.  That makes the whole thing look even worse.

See we have nothing to hide, other than these 3 texts that we can no longer show you, outside of those we have nothing to hide.

Like I said, Yee needs to shut the fuck up because there isn't anything he can say that will help Brady at this point.

 

[LuckyBen]

Apparently not which probably means Jastremski wiped them from his phone as well.  That makes the whole thing look even worse.
See we have nothing to hide, other than these 3 texts that we can no longer show you, outside of those we have nothing to hide.
Like I said, Yee needs to shut the fuck up because there isn't anything he can say that will help Brady at this point.

And how do you know this in regards to the texts being wiped clean? I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

[RedOctober3829]

“We compiled all of Tom’s personal cell phone billing records from his vendor from September through the end of February 2015. The records detail every incoming and outgoing phone call. Every incoming and outgoing text,” Yee explains. “We submitted that to the commissioner. They would then be able to determine were there any other communications with Patriots personnel that were not outlined in the Wells Report. Everything matched up perfectly with the Wells Report with the exception of three texts between Tom and [John] Jastrzemski on February 7, and that was only because Wells had given Jastrzemski’s phone back [on] February 7. As far as any texts prior to the AFC Championship Game, where any alleged scheming would have taken place, Ted Wells would have had any communications between Tom, Jastrzemski and [Jim] McNally. This personal phone billing record compiled by an independent third party shows that he had no communications at all with McNally.
 

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/tom-bradys-agent-says-nfl-mischaracterized-cell-phone-issue

 

[HomeBrew1901]

And how do you know this in regards to the texts being wiped clean? I haven't seen that anywhere.

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all? 

 

[LuckyBen]

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all? 

I thought it said those were the only three texts between the two during that time, will look back for reference.

 

[Reverend]

Can people please stop posting entire pieces? I dunno why but it's happening a bunch today.
 
We try our best to respect other people's content. By all means we encourage (Read: require) a blurb accompanying links telling people why this is worth reading, but if people want to read the whole thing, they should go to the source website. Just trying to maintain basic netiquette here.
 
Thanks in advance.

 

[Hoya81]

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all? 

The texts could have been gathered from JJ as apart of TB's offer to canvass his contacts for more info. Goodell declined.

 

[nighthob]

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all?

The NFL returned Jastremski's phone the 6th, which is why the texts from the 7th weren't there.

 

[Mooch]

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all?

That seems troublesome to me as well. Any mention of that in the Wells report and/or Goodell's followup?

 

[drbretto]

You mean other than those being the only 3 texts they can't find? 
 
That doesn't look fishy to you at all? 

 
JJ: Hey, what do you call a dick with a mustache?
JJ: Ted Wells!
TB: Haha! Burn!

 

[DJnVa]

Also, these texts were after the AFC title game. Are we really supposed to think that despite Brady and his minions covering up the plot to deflate so well it was never mentioned anywhere else BEFORE it happened, that after the game, when everyone knew the league was on the prowl, at this point they discuss the nefarious plot?

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

The NFL returned Jastremski's phone the 6th, which is why the texts from the 7th weren't there.

 
I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't dumb enough to text incriminating messages to Jastremski's phone the day after it was returned to him. 

 

[edmunddantes]

It's idiotic of Yee to say "we gave them everything and they have everything". Except of course 3 texts between the two. Just another unforced error.  
 
Not a good look. (edit - if true, Yee needs to make clear those were texts after the phone was returned, and NFL could get them with no problem)
 
Still don't completely fault Brady on this.
 
A lot of people damning him are looking at this backwards and taking the information of everything that has happened since to inform what decisions should have been made with that knowledge that was unknowable at that time. He may have not even had a second thought about replacing his phone since I can't recall him ever being in a litigation scenario before. Unless you've been in one or work around places that get them alot (big business), you don't get hammered and reminded daily about "preserving" etc.
 
The person that failed here is whoever didn't tell Tom "hey, worst case we might need this so don't get rid of anything". 

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

The NFL returned Jastremski's phone the 6th, which is why the texts from the 7th weren't there.

 
How was this not immediately obvious to everyone?  

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

The NFL returned Jastremski's phone the 6th, which is why the texts from the 7th weren't there.

 
Thanks for this very important detail.  It would have been nice for Yee or LaCanfora to have mentioned this.

 

[Reverend]

 
How was this not immediately obvious to everyone?  

 
They don't click the links and read the pieces.
 
I have re-edited RedOctober's post to include that as the "blurb."

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
How was this not immediately obvious to everyone?  

 
The fact that it wasn't in the NFL's PR hit job yesterday should be enough evidence to suggest it wasn't an issue.

 

[Mooch]

How was this not immediately obvious to everyone?

Big time "duh" on my part. Of course. Makes perfect sense in the timeline of things.

 

[edmunddantes]

 
They don't click the links and read the pieces.
 
I have re-edited RedOctober's post to include that as the "blurb."

Or there are multiple pieces out there with differing levels of information, and it's impossible to read all of them.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

"If you attack the New England Patriots, aren't you in fact attacking the entire United States of America?  I for one will not sit still while you sully the name of the Greatest Country on the Face of this Earth!"

Belated... but well done here...

 

[HomeBrew1901]

 
How was this not immediately obvious to everyone?  

Honest question, no snark, are we talking about Brady's NFL Phone or Personal Phone?
 
Why is Jastremski texting Brady's personal phone after it was returned to him?

 

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Also, these texts were after the AFC title game. Are we really supposed to think that despite Brady and his minions covering up the plot to deflate so well it was never mentioned anywhere else BEFORE it happened, that after the game, when everyone knew the league was on the prowl, at this point they discuss the nefarious plot?

 
This is just one of those things that totally defies logic. They were smart enough not to use the phones to discuss this when nobody was on to them. But once the heat was on, and even after JJ's phone had been collected by the NFL, they suddenly decided to start texting incriminating information.... Makes sense to nobody with a brain.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Honest question, no snark, are we talking about Brady's NFL Phone or Personal Phone?
 
Why is Jastremski texting Brady's personal phone after it was returned to him?

 

What NFL phone?  They don't give cell phones to players.  The only phone in question is his personal phone.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

 
This is just one of those things that totally defies logic. They were smart enough not to use the phones to discuss this when nobody was on to them. But once the heat was on, and even after JJ's phone had been collected by the NFL, they suddenly decided to start texting incriminating information.... Makes sense to nobody with a brain.

And it's the same logic that both Wells and Roger used when discussing the uptick in communication after the AFC Championship Game: they're talking now, it must be a cover up! It defies all logic.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Honest question, no snark, are we talking about Brady's NFL Phone or Personal Phone?
 
Why is Jastremski texting Brady's personal phone after it was returned to him?

 

 
JJ: "Hey Tom, what's shakin'?"
 
TB: "Not much, man, how was the whole Wells thing?"
 
JJ: "Not bad, but I did want to let you know that they are reading through text messages, so make sure to never text anybody about how we deflated all those footballs."

 

[HomeBrew1901]

What NFL phone?  They don't give cell phones to players.  The only phone in question is his personal phone.

I may be completely mistaken but for some reason I thought the Patriots provided their employees phones which were the phones that were turned over to Wells by all the employees including Belichick but not their personal phones.
 
I assumed that also meant players rec'd them as well.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
This is just one of those things that totally defies logic. They were smart enough not to use the phones to discuss this when nobody was on to them. But once the heat was on, and even after JJ's phone had been collected by the NFL, they suddenly decided to start texting incriminating information.... Makes sense to nobody with a brain.

 
Anyone who's ever worked on an investigation of any kind will tell you that people do the dumbest fucking things.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I may be completely mistaken but for some reason I thought the Patriots provided their employees phones which were the phones that were turned over to Wells by all the employees including Belichick but not their personal phones.
 
I assumed that also meant players rec'd them as well.

No, the players do not get team-issued phones.  

 

[Reverend]

Honest question, no snark, are we talking about Brady's NFL Phone or Personal Phone?
 
Why is Jastremski texting Brady's personal phone after it was returned to him?

 
Neither--Jastremski's phone. He got the phone back. He and Brady promptly exchanged three texts which Team Wells saw on the records that Brady handed over and Team Wells decided they wanted to see them.
 
Frankly, the idea that they would immediately start texting incriminating stuff at a point where they clearly understood the scope of the investigation is hard to swallow. That Wells saw it and was like, "Ah-HA!!" is a bit... weird. To me anyway.
 
From Curran:
 

“We compiled all of Tom’s personal cell phone billing records from his vendor from September through the end of February 2015. The records detail every incoming and outgoing phone call. Every incoming and outgoing text,” Yee explains. “We submitted that to the commissioner. They would then be able to determine were there any other communications with Patriots personnel that were not outlined in the Wells Report. Everything matched up perfectly with the Wells Report with the exception of three texts between Tom and [John] Jastrzemski on February 7, and that was only because Wells had given Jastrzemski’s phone back [on] February 7. As far as any texts prior to the AFC Championship Game, where any alleged scheming would have taken place, Ted Wells would have had any communications between Tom, Jastrzemski and [Jim] McNally. This personal phone billing record compiled by an independent third party shows that he had no communications at all with McNally.
 

 

[drbretto]

 
JJ: "Hey Tom, what's shakin'?"
 
TB: "Not much, man, how was the whole Wells thing?"
 
JJ: "Not bad, but I did want to let you know that they are reading through text messages, so make sure to never text anybody about how we deflated all those footballs."

 
TB: We did it! The crime of the century!
JJ: haha, suckers. Good thing there's no incriminating evidence ANYWHERE but these texts!
TB: Good point, let's delete JUST these three texts. Then, I'm going to destroy my phone!

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

 
Anyone who's ever worked on an investigation of any kind will tell you that people do the dumbest fucking things.

 
I get that, but wouldn't they likely have been texting about it before then also?

 

[Erik Hanson's Hook]

One way or another, Kraft's days as an NFL owner are numbered. He was powerless in May and he is powerless now. Game, set, and match to Goodell.

 
What do you mean by this?

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
What do you mean by this?

 
 
Like the rest of us, one day he will die, too.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

 
I get that, but wouldn't they likely have been texting about it before then also?

Brady wasn't but Jastremski and McNally were.
 
Unless you believe that McNally was calling himself "The Deflator" because he was a portly fellow.

 

[Reverend]

 
Anyone who's ever worked on an investigation of any kind will tell you that people do the dumbest fucking things.

 
That's true and fair. The leak of the phone stuff before the ruling was announced does sorta reek of a very intentional and self-conscious smear campaign, and I'm usually loathe to begin with believing that that's how professionals are operating.
 
This is potentially pretty loathsome behavior even by NFL league office standards. As awful as the Ray Rice debacle was, at least that was just them being callously ignorant shitheads.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Brady wasn't but Jastremski and McNally were.
 
Unless you believe that McNally was calling himself "The Deflator" because he was a portly fellow.

 
They also called each other Dorito Dinks. And I'm pretty sure neither of them has a salty fried corn snack in their pants.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

 
They also called each other Dorito Dinks. And I'm pretty sure neither of them has a salty fried corn snack in their pants.

LOL
 
Would it surprise you if either of these morons did though? 

 

[drbretto]

LOL
 
Would it surprise you if either of these morons did though? 

 
Yes.

 

[Punchado]

 
That's true and fair. The leak of the phone stuff before the ruling was announced does sorta reek of a very intentional and self-conscious smear campaign, and I'm usually loathe to begin with believing that that's how professionals are operating.
 
This is potentially pretty loathsome behavior even by NFL league office standards. As awful as the Ray Rice debacle was, at least that was just them being callously ignorant shitheads.

Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't think this level of assholery can stand the test of time. Or at least the test of a truly nuetral judge. As this phone thing plays out its so clear that it's a deeply dickish move designed to get the right headlines and push public opinion and not as a way of presenting the merits of their case.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
That's true and fair. The leak of the phone stuff before the ruling was announced does sorta reek of a very intentional and self-conscious smear campaign, and I'm usually loathe to begin with believing that that's how professionals are operating.
 
This is potentially pretty loathsome behavior even by NFL league office standards. As awful as the Ray Rice debacle was, at least that was just them being callously ignorant shitheads.

 
I was trying to say something different. During investigations you see the wrongdoers do the dumbest thing (e.g., saying things on recorded lines like if I get caught I'm going to jail). There are all kinds of wiretaps from NY mob cases where guys say things like "Vinny the Chin wants you to take the money to the guy"-"Sure,but you're not supposed to use Vinny the Chin's name on the phone when you talk about him because of wiretaps" "Oh yeah Vinny told me not to use his name on the phone".)  Brady and DD would have been idiots to start texting about deflating balls right after the investigation started, but these things do happen.
 
Investigators do idiotic things as well.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't think this level of assholery can stand the test of time. Or at least the test of a truly nuetral judge. As this phone thing plays out its so clear that it's a deeply dickish move designed to get the right headlines and push public opinion and not as a way of presenting the merits of their case.

 
My feeling is the "time" in "test of time" will be very, very short. This does not include the sheeples.

 

[scotian1]

John Dowd's take on the suspension of Tom Brady. He was ambushed! As the man who conducted the investigation into Pete Rose that led to his ban from baseball, he feels that the Wells Report is weak, the science doesn't add up an the evidence doesn't warrant the punishment.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/07/29/pete-roses-investigator-says-tom-brady-was-ambushed-by-goodell/

 

[DavidTai]

Here's the stupid question - if they know there were three texts unaccounted for, why couldn't they have just gotten back the -phone- in question rather than use Tom Brady's?

 

[Reverend]

Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't think this level of assholery can stand the test of time. Or at least the test of a truly nuetral judge. As this phone thing plays out its so clear that it's a deeply dickish move designed to get the right headlines and push public opinion and not as a way of presenting the merits of their case.

 
I hope so. And this is where dcmissle's hope that a federal judge looks at this and gets pissed off about the bs. His concern, of course, is that the phone destruction puts some bs on Brady's ledger... but then there is the counter-hope that the league's bs handling of the matter of the phone trumps that.
 
But yeah, I'm hoping a federal court looks at all this and says, "No. Just no. This is simply unacceptable." I can dream.
 
 

 
I was trying to say something different. During investigations you see the wrongdoers do the dumbest thing (e.g., saying things on recorded lines like if I get caught I'm going to jail). There are all kinds of wiretaps from NY mob cases where guys say things like "Vinny the Chin wants you to take the money to the guy"-"Sure,but you're not supposed to use Vinny the Chin's name on the phone when you talk about him because of wiretaps" "Oh yeah Vinny told me not to use his name on the phone".)  Brady and DD would have been idiots to start texting about deflating balls right after the investigation started, but these things do happen.
 
Investigators do idiotic things as well.

 
Oh yeah, I was agreeing with you. Just noting that whatever it was, the league decided to be vile about it.

 

[Reverend]

John Dowd's take on the suspension of Tom Brady.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/07/29/pete-roses-investigator-says-tom-brady-was-ambushed-by-goodell/

 
Moving forward, please include some blurb or explanation of why a piece is worth reading?
 
Thanks
 
- The Management

 

[Reverend]

Moving forward, if you post a link to a piece, please include some blurb or explanation of why a piece is worth reading. (Do not, however, print the whole piece, as we wish to respect other people's content.)
 
Thanks
 
- The Management

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

John Dowd's take on the suspension of Tom Brady. He was ambushed!
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/07/29/pete-roses-investigator-says-tom-brady-was-ambushed-by-goodell/

 
John Dowd, highly respected (and dogged, I may add) investigator thinks Brady was setup and "ambushed". Video is worth viewing. Relevant passage:
 

“He was not suspended for failing to produce his telephone. If you read The Wells Report, it was based on alleged tampering and the text information. It wasn’t until he got on appeal that he was advised for the first time that his failure to produce the phone was a separate charge -- and that is a gross violation of fundamental fairness and due process if you will”

P.S. Dowd hung up on Mad Dog "Free Pete Rose" Russo recently, which was hilarious and well deserved (Russo also continues to scream about Brady's indisputable guilt BTW):
 
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2015/06/chris_mad_dog_russo_causes_pete_rose_investigator.html

 

[drbretto]

Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't think this level of assholery can stand the test of time. Or at least the test of a truly nuetral judge. As this phone thing plays out its so clear that it's a deeply dickish move designed to get the right headlines and push public opinion and not as a way of presenting the merits of their case.

 
You're not alone in thinking this. We're probably both naive, but at least not alone.