Miami Heat: Pat Riley's Grease Fire

[Mugthis]

 
You know what? Lebron behaved as a GM and chose his teammates, so he might as well get shit for the weaknesses of the team he plays with.  And that's getting to the core of the problem I have with Lebron and the Heat. For me, it's not the vulgar garishness of the decision. One can get over this and in any case, it's not as if lebron behaved like an asshole after that. I believe he's a good kid and obviously a tremendous basketball player, one that legitimately can compare to Michael Jordan as the best of all time.
 
However, when he decided to come in cahoots with Wade and Bosh to join the same team in order to form a basketball dynasty, they went against of what I think is the implicit understanding of how this league is supposed to work. That implicit understanding says that individual players choose their teams either through luck of the draw in the lottery process in the beginning of their careers and after that based on financial incentives and other intangibles like working environment, city, chance of winning.
 
OTOH, teams are supposed to rack their brains to make the best choices to build a team that can compete for the championship through drafting, trades, free agency buys and last by not least, by establishing a workplace culture that maximizes the efficiency and output of players. This is one of the main reasons that we, as fans, obsess over all kinds of minutia that can make our team better. And that's why we can appreciate the smarts of a Danny Ainge who can pull a trade that brought KG and Ray Allen to Boston after the ping pong balls didn't go our way after years and years of all kinds of maneuvering that tried to improve our team. This is what makes us appreciate our team's success more. The same with Spurs fans today. Yes, they drafted Tim Duncan, but they also had a ton of successful draft picks, smart trades and free agent signings while also building a fantastic workplace culture that made players both happy to play for them and a better sum of their parts.
 
Heat fans don't feel this way or at least they shouldn't. The Miami Heat success wasn't so much the outcome of smart team management, but the opposite. The MIami Heat were the vessel for the fulfillment of Lebron's, Wade's and Bosh's ambition to win championship. Perhaps, it would be far more honest if the Miami Heat were renamed to Lebron's Homies or Lebron's Posse. Because that's what it is.
 
The Heat's success is more akin to a guy who bought a trophy wife through a loaded bank account and the possession of an Aston Martin convertible, rather than the long love story of two people who met, liked each other, but had some personal issues to work out, fell in love and then through hard work and perseverance managed to build a happy life together. 
 
The thing is, things that are bought have less meaning than things you earn the hard way.
 
I follow sports and I choose teams because I appreciate the latter path, I don't like the Heat, because of the former. That's my issue with them. That's why I don't like teams like Real, or Chelsea or PSG, or the NYY who just splash money to buy a championship. That's why I can appreciate a Barcelona when the core of her team is built from players who came up from her academies, or Liverpool who made smart moves with less money or Atletico who competed with the giants with less money through tenacity and hard work.
The road Lebron chose is going hurt him in another way. Most of the greats he's compared to are associated with one team and one city. Jordan with Chicago, Bird and Russell with the Celtics, Kobe with LA, Duncan with the Spurs. There are even guys like KG, who got traded after they got frustrated with their first team, have built an emotional bond with their next city. Has Lebron such an emotional bond with Miami? Is there anyone in Miami who cares as much as places like Boston, Phily, New York do in the first place?
 
And while there are others who switched teams after they pouted like Shaq, none of them is hated by the fans of their first team as much as Lebron is. But that's the way it goes. When you put your brand and your ability to win championships first, that bound to hurt your image and legacy. Imagine now what's going to happen if Lebron opts out of his contract and chooses to sign in another city with a better roster. Sure, fans in that city will be happy. But deep down, isn't it going to feel a bit like a night stand where each side uses the other person as disposable vehicle?

 
1) Fine. LeBron isn't the greatest GM ever. Although he did get 2 titles and 2 runner-uppies as well, so far. And I'm not sure how much you can realistically blame him for not anticipating Wade's dramatic decline. I initially thought last year's playoff performance was a health-related aberration for Wade...nope. 
 
2) Rest of your post...blah. Your comparison of the righteous KG demanding a trade to the Celtics and the insidious LeBron and Bosh demanding trades to the Heat is laughable. All players basically do everything they can to win. Usually they have an owner and GM that can build an infrastructure around them so they don't have to leave. Did LeBron have that in Cleveland? Did Bosh in Toronto? Would Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, etc. have just been fine staying in these shit holes that couldn't get a single other good player on the team? Especially while under the salary constraints of the existing CBA? I highly doubt it. That competitive instinct that you guys jerk off over wouldn't have put up with trying to win with Mo Williams and Anderson Varijao as your best side kicks. Likewise, do you think LeBron leaves Cleveland if he had, oh, a Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson with him? What about a Pat Riley, plus a Kareem and James Worthy? What about if he had prime Shaq or even Prime Gasol, along with Phil Jackson, the Lakers' legacy and resources? What if he got to play with Kevin McHale, Parrish, and for the by far most successful franchise ever?
 
Cleveland hates LeBron because he represented their best chance, and really only chance, at winning a title, in any sport, in a long long time. Their own team management blew that opportunity, so of course they take their anger out on LeBron. What's easier, booing LeBron for admitting your city has no real chance at winning in the near future, or abandoning your local team altogether? 
 
This idea that LeBron, Bosh, and Wade (especially Wade, who never even left) broke some unspoken "code" is just rationalizing fundamentally irrational sports-hate. Sports-hate is fine...I hate plenty of players and teams for no real reason (i.e. Kobe, the Lakers, Jeter, Yankees, etc.). Just admit that you have no morally pure reason to hate LeBron and the Heat. You hate them because it's more fun to watch sports when you have villains to root against. 

 

[wutang112878]

Just one note on Jordan it did take the Bulls a while.  Jordan demonstrated that he was special his rookie season 84/85, and for his first 3 years in the league that team was improving but it was a slow gradual process and the talent around him really wasnt amazing.  Pippen came arrived in the 87/88 season, and it took 4 full years with Pippen there before they won a title and it too Pippen a few years to develop and by the time 89/90 rolled around it was probably clear he could be Jordans real sidekick which is the year Phil arrived as well.  So it took 5 full years of a slow gradual process for that team to develop, it wasnt instant gratification.
 
Contrast to Lebron, yeah he gave Cleveland 7 full years and by the end they still didnt have enough in place for him to see a clear future but it took Jordan 7 full seasons to win and he came into the league at 21 compared to Lebron's 19  Looking back all those pieces Jordan had look amazing, but thats in hindsight.  Now had Jordan not won in 90/91 those pieces wouldnt look so great and then we could really compare Jordan at that point in time vs Lebron in his last year at Cleveland.

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
This idea that LeBron, Bosh, and Wade (especially Wade, who never even left) broke some unspoken "code" is just rationalizing fundamentally irrational sports-hate. Sports-hate is fine...I hate plenty of players and teams for no real reason (i.e. Kobe, the Lakers, Jeter, Yankees, etc.). Just admit that you have no morally pure reason to hate LeBron and the Heat. You hate them because it's more fun to watch sports when you have villains to root against. 

Why is it that cut and dried?  Sure, there's an element of opportunism and sports villianism involved.  It is indeed fun to have villians.  They've always been part of the sports fan landscape.  But it's not as if people who hate LeBron and Wade have no basis and this all comes down to it being fun to hate someone.  Said differently, it doesn't have to be "morally pure." 
 
LeBron is of course an all time great.  He also, in my eyes, is an ass of a human being.  I feel the same way about Wade and think that he's also a massive cheap shot artist.  I'd detail the reasons for both if I thought anyone was interested (I don't) or if it was necessary to make the point that the existence of counter-points doesn't negate that there are aspects of LeBron that will probably always rub people the wrong way.      

 

[Mugthis]

I don't get what you're trying to say. By Jordan's 7th year, they beat Magic and the Lakers' great dynasty. 25-years old Pippen fully blossomed and entered his prime, as did 25-year old Horace Grant. Phil Jackson seemingly established his value and worth to MJ. So MJ, at the end of his 7th season, had a title, Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, and Horance Grant. 
 
LeBron had...Anderson Varajao and Mike Brown?
 
It's not that it doesn't take a while to win a title, sometimes, it's that it was obvious by Jordan's 7th season, they had the infrastructure in place to win titles, most evidenced by the fact that they actually did win a title. It was much less clear that LeBron (or any player) could win a title with the infrastructure the Cavs put together. In seven years, their management was never able to get him great players to play with. He was stuck in 80's-MJ mode. And that's not even considering differences in contract status and opportunities (I don't know MJ's situation. When were his opportunities to leave Chicago before he won a title? I honestly don't know.

 

[The Social Chair]

Just one note on Jordan it did take the Bulls a while.  Jordan demonstrated that he was special his rookie season 84/85, and for his first 3 years in the league that team was improving but it was a slow gradual process and the talent around him really wasnt amazing.  Pippen came arrived in the 87/88 season, and it took 4 full years with Pippen there before they won a title and it too Pippen a few years to develop and by the time 89/90 rolled around it was probably clear he could be Jordans real sidekick which is the year Phil arrived as well.  So it took 5 full years of a slow gradual process for that team to develop, it wasnt instant gratification.
 
Contrast to Lebron, yeah he gave Cleveland 7 full years and by the end they still didnt have enough in place for him to see a clear future but it took Jordan 7 full seasons to win and he came into the league at 21 compared to Lebron's 19  Looking back all those pieces Jordan had look amazing, but thats in hindsight.  Now had Jordan not won in 90/91 those pieces wouldnt look so great and then we could really compare Jordan at that point in time vs Lebron in his last year at Cleveland.

 
I can't tell if you are defending Lebron's decision to leave or not. He gave Cleveland 7 years and they did nothing to build a quality team around him so he decided to put his career in his own hands. Cleveland has continued to be an utter disaster since he left. He would have been a fool (maybe a loyal fool) to stay with that organization.
 

 

[Mugthis]

Why is it that cut and dried?  Sure, there's an element of opportunism and sports villianism involved.  It is indeed fun to have villians.  They've always been part of the sports fan landscape.  But it's not as if people who hate LeBron and Wade have no basis and this all comes down to it being fun to hate someone.  Said differently, it doesn't have to be "morally pure." 
 
LeBron is of course an all time great.  He also, in my eyes, is an ass of a human being.  I feel the same way about Wade and think that he's also a massive cheap shot artist.  I'd detail the reasons for both if I thought anyone was interested (I don't) or if it was necessary to make the point that the existence of counter-points doesn't negate that there are aspects of LeBron that will probably always rub people the wrong way.      

I'm not saying it's wrong to have instinctual reactions towards certain people or have them rub you the wrong way. I'm pushing back against the idea that what LeBron/Bosh/Wade did to play together was somehow worse in any way than any other player trying to win. If Bosh and Wade join in LeBron in Cleveland, is it any better or worse? If so, why? If Bosh is 10% worse as a player, is it okay for LeBron to want to play with him? 20% worse? What if he's in his 30s? Is it okay then? When is the cut-off for talent when it goes from okay to not okay to want to play with someone? Should MJ have gotten rid of Dennis Rodman, because he was too good? Was that too unfair? I can't see any sane reason why this shit matters. There are numerous trades and free agent signings every season. Teams and players try to accrue the best assets to increase their probability at success. The Heat and LeBron/Bosh/Wade played within the rules and did the best they could to increase their odds. They didn't buy powerpack or enter cheat codes. 

 

[wutang112878]

I don't get what you're trying to say. By Jordan's 7th year, they beat Magic and the Lakers' great dynasty. 25-years old Pippen fully blossomed and entered his prime, as did 25-year old Horace Grant. Phil Jackson seemingly established his value and worth to MJ. So MJ, at the end of his 7th season, had a title, Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, and Horance Grant. 
 
LeBron had...Anderson Varajao and Mike Brown?
 
It's not that it doesn't take a while to win a title, sometimes, it's that it was obvious by Jordan's 7th season, they had the infrastructure in place to win titles, most evidenced by the fact that they actually did win a title. It was much less clear that LeBron (or any player) could win a title with the infrastructure the Cavs put together. In seven years, their management was never able to get him great players to play with. He was stuck in 80's-MJ mode. And that's not even considering differences in contract status and opportunities (I don't know MJ's situation. When were his opportunities to leave Chicago before he won a title? I honestly don't know.

 
If Scottie Pippen wasnt there there is no first title, and Horace Grant really isnt all that much different than Anderson Varejao and Jordan is in the same boat as Lebron was in at year 7.  The big difference was Scottie Pippen.  There is no question they never got that guy for Lebron, no dout and I'm sure that was frustrating. 
 
Originally I was trying to make the point that 'hey, look MJ was patient while the GM screwed up' but in actuality MJ could see the budding talent of Pippen and see that Grant was serviceable which must have given him hope for the future.  Lebron didnt really have that talent foundation in place and ultimately he made the right call leaving because Cleveland couldnt build a tower our of legos.  
 
I guess the better examples of 'superstars' who handled their situation in a better way than Lebron would be KG and Pierce.  KG never got a sidekick (a true 'he can be a #2 on a title team' sidekick) in Minny, and he was loyal to the very end.  Pierce is the better example by far, now he complained every once and a while but this is a guy who: Had to play for Pitino which was a disaster for 3 years, then his GM was Chris Wallace and they went on a little run, then Wallace trades for Vin DrinkingProblem Baker and the talent slowly degrades, and then Danny comes in and decides to completely tear it down and spend 2 years absolutely sucking on purpose to develop assets....  During these 2 years Pierce complained a bit, but it was pretty freaking understandable but he never asked out or pushed his way out or held the franchise hostage, nothing like that even when he had every right to do that those last 2 years.  If it was Lebron he would have bolted after the Vin Baker trade without a doubt.

 

[wutang112878]

 
I can't tell if you are defending Lebron's decision to leave or not. He gave Cleveland 7 years and they did nothing to build a quality team around him so he decided to put his career in his own hands. Cleveland has continued to be an utter disaster since he left. He would have been a fool (maybe a loyal fool) to stay with that organization.
 

 
Originally I was just trying to show that Jordan did take a long path to a title too, but as I just mentioned that wasnt really the case.  The more I look at it with Lebron, while they way he went out was absolutely disgusting, getting out was a very smart move.  Had he done it with more class, I dont think anyone blames him after watching what the Heat did.

 

[Mugthis]

Zach Lowe makes fun of SoSH without realizing it:
 

 
Fans have an ambiguous relationship with players controlling the situation. The summer of 2010 prompted an outcry in some corners that the players had rigged the game. Fans had no problem when tinkerers atop the Lakers and Celtics “built” the super-teams of the 1980s, but they raised hell when players did the same thing themselves. That is a weird incongruity.
 
On the flip side, fans appear to hate super-teams until the moment there are none. We recall the late 1970s, when the championship toggled among unremarkable clubs, as the league’s coke-infested nadir. There is an almost pathological determination to point out that today’s teams couldn’t possibly compete with Bird’s Celtics and Magic’s Lakers. There is overlap in the Venn diagrams displaying fans who deride today’s super-teams and fans who think the NBA reached its glorious height with the powerhouses of the 1980s.

http://grantland.com/features/miami-heat-lebron-james-carmelo-anthony-max-contracts-nba/

 

[wutang112878]

Hey at least all of us Celts promoters said it would be a great game, we were all smart enough to realize they wouldnt mop the floor with the Heat

 

[BigMike]

I haven't really been a Heat detractor, and really I basically like Lebron.
 
I caught 5 minutes of the Pat Reilly press conference this morning.   My goodness, I had long ago forgotten just how deep my hatred for that man goes,   and what a miserable SOB he is. 

 

[bankshot1]

Listening to Pat Riley now, he is an angry vindictive grudge-carrying prick.

 

[wutang112878]

What did he say?

 

[bankshot1]

I heard about a 5 minute segment.
 
My read was that LBJ was going to bail/opt out. And Riley was pissed. So he basically threw down the gauntlet for LBJ to stick it out and talked about how hard it was to win championships. He recalled how the Lakers won 5 championships in 12 years, the Bulls won 6 in 11 years, the Spurs won 5 in 17 years, and he said (paraphrase) "allegedly the 80's Celts were a great team" but they won only 3 in 12 years. He then went on to mention that he blew the '84 series against the Celts, and everyone on the lakers hated him, but they stuck it to the Celts in '85, and then added "we stuck it to them good". 
 
Pat puts on a good show., it was great theater.

 

[wutang112878]

"allegedly the 80's Celts were a great team" - thats awesome.  Clearly we get under his skin and if the situation was different and Red said this about someone we would love it.  It is cool when GMs and coaches arent so PR conscious. 
 
Now on Lebron, thats awesome that he is reading the tea leaves.  He probably realizes that with Lebron bolting & Wade staying at that albatross, the Heat are now completely screwed when he thought he might be able to just reload.  Its ironic too that Riley tempted Lebron by giving him an easy path to a title and now that someone else can probably give him an easier path he is pissed that he is leaving.  We can only hope that this results in Riley writing an open letter to Lebron chastising him.

 

[bankshot1]

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2014/06/19/20140619-riley-media-1.nba/index.html
 
link to edited video of first 5 minutes of the Riley press conference

 

[Marbleheader]

Funny how he conveniently left out the Celtics Russell dynasty out of his diatribe. He's a sleazeball that wanted all these guys to whore themselves out for his benefit. Can't cry when they bail out on you now.

 

[Mugthis]

As a basketball fan, I really want to see Paul+LeBron+Griffin play together. Along with Reddick wide open for 3 all game, that would be an unstoppable offense. Those PNRs would be unfair. Although it would be funny that LeBron once again doesn't get to play with a dominant, rim-protector-type big man. 
 
It would also make the West even more ridiculously loaded, especially if Love goes to Golden State.
 
1. Clippers (LeBron, Paul, Griffin, Doc)
2. Spurs (Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Manu, Pop, deepest team)
3. OKC (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka)
4. Golden State (Curry, Love, Iguodala, Bogut)
5. Blazers (Lillaird, Aldridge)
6. Houston (Harden, Howard)
7. Pheonix (Dragic, Bledsoe)
 
All that, plus Dirk, Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, and even Kobe.
 
Those top 4 teams...wow. Would that be the most loaded conference ever, particularly at the top?
 
Only team out East that would have a chance would be the Bulls and only if Rose returns to at least 90% of himself and they Carmelo. A Rose-Noah-Carmelo-Butler core in a Thibedou system would be pretty elite and would obviously run away with the East. If Thibs could turn Anthony into a good team defender, I think they'd have a shot at any team out West.

 

[jon abbey]

I'm not a big fan of an entire conference's games being entirely meaningless. Would like to see the balance of power even out a bit.

 
The league could fix this so easily. Keep the lopsided schedules, just take the top 16 teams for the playoffs, regardless of conference. This would help the league so so much, instantly.

 

[CantKeepmedown]

It's hard to say if Riley's comments will help or hurt his cause.  I could see LeBron taking Riley's quote; "This stuff is hard. And you got to stay together, if you've got the guts. And you don't find the first door and run out of it"  as a shot at him, say screw you, and go to LA, or Houston, or wherever. 
 
Maybe Bosh, Wade, and the Heat staff talk him into staying another year.  But something tells me he's leaving, and this was Riley's way of getting out in front of it and putting a bad spin on LeBron for it. 
 
Brian Windhorst had a column the other day about LeBron.  His final paragraph talked about how LeBron no longer cares what people think.  He's mentally stronger now than he was back in 2010.  Basically, he doesn't care what people wil think if he creates The Decision part 2. He only cares about being happy and winning. 

 

[Mugthis]

It's hard to say if Riley's comments will help or hurt his cause.  I could see LeBron taking Riley's quote; "This stuff is hard. And you got to stay together, if you've got the guts. And you don't find the first door and run out of it"  as a shot at him, say screw you, and go to LA, or Houston, or wherever. 
 
Maybe Bosh, Wade, and the Heat staff talk him into staying another year.  But something tells me he's leaving, and this was Riley's way of getting out in front of it and putting a bad spin on LeBron for it. 
 
Brian Windhorst had a column the other day about LeBron.  His final paragraph talked about how LeBron no longer cares what people think.  He's mentally stronger now than he was back in 2010.  Basically, he doesn't care what people wil think if he creates The Decision part 2. He only cares about being happy and winning. 

 
I really hope so. I love rooting for LeBron (he's at that Jordan, Pedro, Bonds, Federer level for me--just awe-inspiring greatness), but there's nothing about the Heat or Miami that's enjoyable to root for. I would love if he left them in the most painful way possible, and they were stuck rooting for a 38-win team led by a rapidly declining Wade. 

 

[Kliq]

Funny how he conveniently left out the Celtics Russell dynasty out of his diatribe. He's a sleazeball that wanted all these guys to whore themselves out for his benefit. Can't cry when they bail out on you now.

 
One of the guys on Dale and Holley made a good point about Riley. In 2010, he benefited from LeBron James and his indecisiveness. He benefited from the fact that LeBron was willing to leave a team that was loyal to him in order to go towards a place that gave him a greater place to win. It's arrogant for him to think LeBron won't do the same thing again, and expect a different result, just because this time LeBron will be leaving him.

 

[bankshot1]

Riley should get a grip and a reality check before playing the guts and loyalty card.
 
He bailed on the Lakers when it was evident they were starting to slide, and then he bailed on the Knicks to go to the Heat.

 

[knucklecup]

Haslem has been outstanding for that team. It seems like he's opting out with the full intention of returning in some capacity, like you mentioned, and is just giving them salary cap flexibility.

It's what they wish Wade would do.

 

[SunkToANewLowell]

Haslem has been outstanding for that team. It seems like he's opting out with the full intention of returning in some capacity, like you mentioned, and is just giving them salary cap flexibility.

It's what they wish Wade would do.

Multiple reports on twitter say he has indeed opted out as well



https://twitter.com/bytimreynolds/status/482967588587065344

https://twitter.com/bytimreynolds/status/482967588587065344

link to tweet

 

[knucklecup]

Multiple reports on twitter say he has indeed opted out as well

True story. Confirmed.

RT @HowardBeck: Dwyane Wade has opted out, per AP. With Wade, LeBron and Haslem all opting out, Heat will get the cap flex they need to remake the roster.

If Wade can accept the fact that he's no longer worthy of a max deal and "take one for the team" as Haslem has for years, and is doing again now, Miami is getting Melo... Ugh.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I really hope Riley ditches Wade for Melo now and Wade ends up with Kobe.

 

[knucklecup]

I really hope Riley ditches Wade for Melo now and Wade ends up with Kobe.

I would love this but I feel as if Wade and LBJ are too connected at this point. Like KG and Pierce if you will.

They're all opting out but it seems like there's a reason for it, and one that will end up with us not being happy.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Bosh opts out too per Broussard. 100% they will all be in Miami with Lowry joining them IMO.

 

[knucklecup]

$55 million in cap space for Riley to play with.

Bosh asking for $15-16 per Broussard.

This is a nightmare.

 

[knucklecup]

Bosh opts out too per Broussard. 100% they will all be in Miami with Lowry joining them IMO.

Anything contributing to that Lowry comment or just a gut feeling?

The Melo news was Twitter-shattering, but not seeing as much on the Lowry/Miami connection.

 

[ishmael]

Amazing the pull that LeBron has on that team. He opted out first and basically forced Wade, Bosh and Haslem to do the same if they wanted to play on a title contending team. The thing is LeBron can easily give back $4-5 million in salary per year in exchange for the endorsements and shot to win 2-3 more rings.
 
I wonder if Miami takes a run at Lowry + Gasol (or a similar big man).

 

[Cellar-Door]

$55 million in cap space for Riley to play with.

Bosh asking for $15-16 per Broussard.

This is a nightmare.

Bosh asking for 15-16 is actually pretty good. It means unless Wade takes a massive paycut you are looking at the same big 3 and role players. If he was asking for 12 or less I'd be worried about a 4th big time star.

 

[bowiac]

With Napier on board, I think a Birdman upgrade is more important than a PG like Lowry.

We're assuming Napier is good here?
 
I agree they need a big man more than a PG, but Napier doesn't enter into it.

 

[bowiac]

Bosh asking for 15-16 is actually pretty good. It means unless Wade takes a massive paycut you are looking at the same big 3 and role players. If he was asking for 12 or less I'd be worried about a 4th big time star.

I could see Wade taking a major cut here. Something like Bosh/LeBron at 15 apiece, Wade at 10, leaving $15M to fill the rest.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Anything contributing to that Lowry comment or just a gut feeling?

The Melo news was Twitter-shattering, but not seeing as much on the Lowry/Miami connection.

Ric Bucher said Lowry sign and trade was imminent on draft night

 

[swingin val]

bucher got scammed

 

[ElUno20]

I dont see how Lowry or another decent role player is the end game to this. Opting out for that? They got destroyed in the finals. It has to be a bigger move than that

 

[bankshot1]

This might be the topic for another thread, but in relation to the Heat, does the NBA Players Association have reason to be concerned that certain marquee players are taking less than market value for their services to band together, and theoretically depress salaries?

 

[Devizier]

This might be the topic for another thread, but in relation to the Heat, does the NBA Players Association have reason to be concerned that certain marquee players are taking less than market value for their services to band together, and theoretically depress salaries?

 
Not only that, but by excluding ~90% of the league, they're reducing the market for free agents, and the viability of the league as a whole. The CBA is so fucked right now, can't say I blame them. Maybe this will finally remove the cap on the player max.

 

[bankshot1]

Exactly, the top of the market is getting artificially depressed, and its possible the salary cost structures gets pushed down. If I was a lawyer (and I'm not) in the NBAPA, I might wonder why in MLB when players opt out, their salaries rise, but in the NBA they decline. I don't know enough about the NBA's CBA but between Bird Rights and mid-level exemptions, and a soft cap that lets the Nets spend whatever they want, but the Heat can't, something doesn't seem right. 

 

[bowiac]

This might be the topic for another thread, but in relation to the Heat, does the NBA Players Association have reason to be concerned that certain marquee players are taking less than market value for their services to band together, and theoretically depress salaries?

This isn't an issue with how the CBA is structured. The players overall receive a given percentage (49-51%, depending on NBA revenue growth) of total revenue, and 10% of player salaries are withheld in case salaries turn out to be too high, with a refund of that 10% given as necessary to ensure the players receive their allotted 49-51% share. The result is that when a player takes a discount, it alters the % of revenue going to the players, and thus gets credited back to the players overall later.
 
 
This is why the max salary doesn't cost the players money overall. Every dollar LeBron is getting screwed out of is going back to the overall player pool. The same is true of "discounts" like we're about to see in Miami.

 

[knucklecup]

With Napier on board, I think a Birdman upgrade is more important than a PG like Lowry.

Birdman should be more appreciated in my opinion. They need size and an interior presence, agreed on that end, but they shouldn't let Anderson go if they can keep him for anything remotely close to what they have been paying him.

 

[knucklecup]

Ric Bucher said Lowry sign and trade was imminent on draft night

Interesting. Must not have been paying much attention or refreshing Twitter when Buch came on. I'm surprised Riley would utilize his cap space in this manner.

I'd also be surprised because Lebron always goes big for lack of a better term, which is how this team came together in the first place, and Carmelo Anthony being added to the trio fits that mold moreso than overspending on Lowry.

 

[bowiac]

Interesting. Must not have been paying much attention or refreshing Twitter when Buch came on. I'm surprised Riley would utilize his cap space in this manner.

I'd also be surprised because Lebron always goes big for lack of a better term, which is how this team came together in the first place, and Carmelo Anthony being added to the trio fits that mold moreso than overspending on Lowry.

Bucher has retracted this claim, and apologized for this tweet, saying his source lied to him.

 

[moondog80]

Blurb on rotoworld says LeBron still seeking the max or close. Salary cuts for thee, but not for me?

 

[swingin val]

Blurb on rotoworld says LeBron still seeking the max or close. Salary cuts for thee, but not for me?

Who do you think deserves the max if not LeBron?

 

[moondog80]

Who do you think deserves the max if not LeBron?

Of course he deserves it. But telling Wade/Bosh "if you want to keep the team together, you have to go way below market value while I get the max" would be quite a display of hubris. So much that I'm a bit skeptical if the report.

 

[Devizier]

Of course he deserves it. But telling Wade/Bosh "if you want to keep the team together, you have to go way below market value while I get the max" would be quite a display of hubris. So much that I'm a bit skeptical if the report.

 
That's exactly what he should tell them, to be honest. Bosh is still a max player on the open market, but Wade isn't even close.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
That's exactly what he should tell them, to be honest. Bosh is still a max player on the open market, but Wade isn't even close.

I'm pretty convinced Wade got some massive deposit in an offshore bank account this afternoon. Would he really be willing to take a 20+ million dollar paycut the next two years to play with LeBron?