Pitching Targets

[FanSinceBoggs]

I don't know if I would trade for a reliever. The cost will be lower than trading for a quality starter, but the cost will be quite high, and, with the exception of trading for A.Miller (who will cost the moon and stars), the new relief pitcher will not be a sure thing and could falter down the stretch. I would take my chances with what the Red Sox already have. I'm willing to expand Barnes' role, hoping he can develop beyond what he is now and perform as a set up reliever if necessary. I would bring up Pat Light toward the end of the season and throw him into the mix, hoping he can dominate and perform as a shutdown reliever. Hembree is another guy who could be ready to take on a larger role if necessary. So, in sum, even if Uehara and Tazawa begin to falter, the Red Sox have internal options.

I would continue to seek a trade for a SP, but I'm growing skeptical that they will find one who will upgrade the top of the rotation--they need a number 2 starter, not a middle-of-the-rotation starter or less. While Teheran certainly looks like a number 2 on the surface, his peripherals and declining velocity suggest a middle-of-the-rotation starter in Boston.

If the Red Sox can't find an SP, I would focus on offensive upgrades, such as a LH bat for left field and a possible replacement for Hanley if he continues to suck at the plate (90 OPS+ in 2015; 92 OPS+ in 2016).

 

[chrisfont9]

Rich Hill had a "setback" during today's bullpen session and is headed back to the MRI machine.

And is now on the DL.

 

[nvalvo]

When I started this thread in mid-May, I thought a trade for a starter was unlikely, as few starters would be available, and those who would would be dubious values.

With both Rich Hill (one of the more plausible targets) and some of our key trade chips injured (Swihart), I think it's even less likely now.

I think we just have to hope that one of Buchholz, Elias, Owens, Johnson, or O'Sullivan can get themselves together.

 

[YTF]

When I started this thread in mid-May, I thought a trade for a starter was unlikely, as few starters would be available, and those who would would be dubious values.

With both Rich Hill (one of the more plausible targets) and some of our key trade chips injured (Swihart), I think it's even less likely now.

I think we just have to hope that one of Buchholz, Elias, Owens, Johnson, or O'Sullivan can get themselves together.

I think they have to keep exploring because what do you do when the inevitable happens and one of the current 4 starters does a stint on the DL? Then we're going to have to depend on two of the highlighted group. Also, not sure if it makes things better or worse, but you forgot to put list Kelly in that group of hopefuls.

 

[YTF]

Here's a thought/question for those who might have a better idea on this sort of thing. I'm aware that draft picks can't be traded away like they can in other sports, but with the timing of tonight's draft I'm left wondering if the Sox could work a deal in advance, draft another team's targeted player and trade said player to that team. In effect they would be getting an extra and likely higher pick. Anyone know if this is kosher under MLB rules?

 

[chrisfont9]

When I started this thread in mid-May, I thought a trade for a starter was unlikely, as few starters would be available, and those who would would be dubious values.

With both Rich Hill (one of the more plausible targets) and some of our key trade chips injured (Swihart), I think it's even less likely now.

I think we just have to hope that one of Buchholz, Elias, Owens, Johnson, or O'Sullivan can get themselves together.

Cuevas seems to be the top performer in AAA right now. I don't know much about him and nothing jumps off the page when looking at his stats, but shouldn't performance alone put him at or above Johnson and Owens for some innings?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I don't know if I would trade for a reliever. The cost will be lower than trading for a quality starter, but the cost will be quite high, and, with the exception of trading for A.Miller (who will cost the moon and stars), the new relief pitcher will not be a sure thing and could falter down the stretch. I would take my chances with what the Red Sox already have. I'm willing to expand Barnes' role, hoping he can develop beyond what he is now and perform as a set up reliever if necessary. I would bring up Pat Light toward the end of the season and throw him into the mix, hoping he can dominate and perform as a shutdown reliever. Hembree is another guy who could be ready to take on a larger role if necessary. So, in sum, even if Uehara and Tazawa begin to falter, the Red Sox have internal options.

I would continue to seek a trade for a SP, but I'm growing skeptical that they will find one who will upgrade the top of the rotation--they need a number 2 starter, not a middle-of-the-rotation starter or less. While Teheran certainly looks like a number 2 on the surface, his peripherals and declining velocity suggest a middle-of-the-rotation starter in Boston.

If the Red Sox can't find an SP, I would focus on offensive upgrades, such as a LH bat for left field and a possible replacement for Hanley if he continues to suck at the plate (90 OPS+ in 2015; 92 OPS+ in 2016).

I would probably echo most of this. The only two SPs that are interesting to me would be Hill and Teheran. That being said I'm pretty skeptical of just about all NL East pitchers (Mets excluded). Mainly due to the pitcher's park/division/league to a hitter's park/division/league conversion - not to mention the better quality of the AL overall. Its just really difficult to make a sensible projection.

And to put it simply - I wouldn't be interested in trading for any SP or RP rumoured to be available if it costs any of the Big Four (Benintendi, Moncada, Devers or Espinoza).

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Here's a thought/question for those who might have a better idea on this sort of thing. I'm aware that draft picks can't be traded away like they can in other sports, but with the timing of tonight's draft I'm left wondering if the Sox could work a deal in advance, draft another team's targeted player and trade said player to that team. In effect they would be getting an extra and likely higher pick. Anyone know if this is kosher under MLB rules?

Kosher? Sure. Realistic? No. For a number of reasons.

First, players drafted can't be traded until after the World Series. This is an improvement over previous rules where it was a year before being moved and you had situations like Trea Turner. But it still means you don't get the guy into your system until next season and who knows what can happen in that interim? Do you basically have the Sox sit him? Or do you have him play and risk injury? Do you try to baby sit his instruction and playing time?

Second, there's implications with regards to the draft pool salary cap. Let's say the A's call and say "we will trade you sonny gray, in exchange for you drafting player X." So the Sox draft player X, but they can't make a transaction until they actually have him signed and then player X wants more than slot of what was agreed upon, especially when he know learns he will be playing in Oakland instead of Boston. Only, the Sox have based the rest of their draft board on whatever figure they had budgeted and had taken some guys in later rounds figuring they had extra money to work with and now they risk blowing up their entire class. And then do they do it to complete the trade or hold firm on the #1 and punt the pick for a year?

The MLB draft, trading picks, salary caps, etc all need to be seriously revamped before this kind of thing is realistic.

 

[YTF]

Thanks for the insight. I figured it wasn't that easy or I would have recalled seeing it somewhere in past seasons. With the draft being tonight it seemed sort of appropriate to ask.

 

[YTF]

FWIW...Mat Latos DFAed today. Not advocating, just saying he'll be available and shouldn't cost a ton.

 

[nvalvo]

Cuevas seems to be the top performer in AAA right now. I don't know much about him and nothing jumps off the page when looking at his stats, but shouldn't performance alone put him at or above Johnson and Owens for some innings?

Also, not sure if it makes things better or worse, but you forgot to put list Kelly in that group of hopefuls.

Good catches on Kelly and Cuevas, and I'll add one more: Aaron Wilkerson doesn't have much, stuff-wise, but he's been posting beautiful K/BB numbers in Portland and Pawtucket.

 

[simplicio]

FWIW...Mat Latos DFAed today. Not advocating, just saying he'll be available and shouldn't cost a ton.

Shields just gave them that disaster of a start and they turn around and DFA Latos? That season certainly turned into a joke in a hurry.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

FWIW...Mat Latos DFAed today. Not advocating, just saying he'll be available and shouldn't cost a ton.

His line this year looks eerily like Buchholz's, only Latos apparently pitched in a bit more luck overall (4.62 ERA/5.50 FIP compared to Buchholz's 6.24 ERA/5.80 FIP).

The only argument for Latos would be trying to catch the old "change of scenery" bump, except he's been with four different teams since the start of last season and wasn't particularly good with any of them, so it's not like his scenery has gone stale. It's possible he's a problem in the clubhouse too, given how quickly he seems to have worn out his welcome of late.

 

[Plympton91]

Ahh .. No .. I wouldn't trade two of Bogaerts, Betts and Bradley even without the prospects. Quite frankly I'm not sure I'd trade any of them straight up for Fernandez.

Yeah, no way. An all-star player at a skill position (Betts should be valued as a CF in any trade talk) is more valuable than any starter. And this is a starter who's already had his first TJ operation. People need to stop thinking about these guys as prospects; they're all as proven high-quality major league talents as post-surgery Fernandez is right now.

Benintendi/Devers/Rodriguez and a lottery ticket should be the high end. They're not trading Moncada.

 

[Mookies Lip Curl]

So the Yankees have climbed back above .500 despite getting absolutely nothing from Horseface and Blue Lips. Beltran still has power, Ellsbury and Headley aren't completely useless after all, Tanaka dominating, and obviously they have a hydra monster in the bullpen.

Sabathia has been a massive part of their resurgence, and has put up insanely good numbers dating back to last September. Literally, some of the best of his career.

There are so many "ifs" that it's a little silly to bring it up, but he's exactly the type of guy they would target if he wasn't on the Yankees. That is IF the Yankees dip back down below .500, IF he doesn't have any major setbacks, and IF we would be okay with potentially three LHP in the rotation. What would the regular asking price be? How much do they try to jack it up for us? Or how much does Cashman laugh at Dombrowski for even approaching him? Or does Dombrowski have a relationship with Cashman from working in Detroit that changes the dynamic?

On the scale from 1 to speculation, this is just a thought experiment to hijack yet another argument about Jose Fernandez.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

I would not, in any way shape or form, make a deal that would supply the Yankees with anything that could become, down the line a major weapon unless all other options were expired. Even getting Miller back (which would be preferable).

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

Or how much does Cashman laugh at Dombrowski for even approaching him? Or does Dombrowski have a relationship with Cashman from working in Detroit that changes the dynamic?

When you're an old, bad team, you're in no position to laugh at anyone willing to trade for a high-contract, high-injury risk, old player. Not like it was under George, the Sox and Yankees made a trade with each other a few years back *minor-scale Drew for Kelly Johnson trade, but a trade nonetheless*

 

[alwyn96]

If the Yankees are totally out of it, I bet they'd at least consider a Sabathia trade. I think the Yankees would probably ask too much and I'm not sure the Red Sox would do it, but I don't think either front office would be laughing at the mere notion of a Yankees-Red Sox trade. Any kind of trade that really helped the other team or didn't work out would bring the white-hot fury of the fanbase down on them, though.

 

[jon abbey]

Yeah, I don't see that happening. I still think TB is the best match for BOS for a SP option, they have more than they can use no matter how their season goes (well, unless a bunch of them get hurt obv).

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

Sabathia is pitching really well but he will be almost impossible to move without the Yankees picking up some of the remaining money (he is owed 25 million next year). There are too many red flags. He has a knee issue, he had a drinking problem (something that can't be overlooked), velocity is down, and he is a poorly conditioned athlete. Smaller market teams aren't going to want him, unless the Yankees pay a portion of his 2017 salary. And even big market teams like the Red Sox will not want to commit 25 million next year to a pitcher with so many red flags. If this was the last year of Sabathia's contract, the Yankees could move him, but with 25 million on the table for next season, I don't see it happening.

 

[Maximus]

Sonny Gray should be the target. A couple of good starts now and he would be our #2. Just don't give up Moncada, Benintendi or Espinoza in the deal.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

Sonny Gray should be the target. A couple of good starts now and he would be our #2. Just don't give up Moncada, Benintendi or Espinoza in the deal.

Can the Red Sox acquire Gray without trading one of those guys? I doubt it.

 

[Plympton91]

I think they have to keep exploring because what do you do when the inevitable happens and one of the current 4 starters does a stint on the DL? Then we're going to have to depend on two of the highlighted group. Also, not sure if it makes things better or worse, but you forgot to put list Kelly in that group of hopefuls.

When do we stop putting Rodriguez in the category of "a good starter"? He was awful during his rehab, and awful (luck in one notwithstanding) during 3 starts in the majors. He clearly not fully healthy, and it's becoming clear he can't pitch well through the injury. I think they're at the point where they need 2 starters already.

 

[Maximus]

Can the Red Sox acquire Gray without trading one of those guys? I doubt it.

The deal would have to be structured in some manner with Devers, Kopech, Kelly, Travis and depending on Swihart's medical condition, he would have been the centerpiece.

 

[Byrdbrain]

The deal would have to be structured in some manner with Devers, Kopech, Kelly, Travis and depending on Swihart's medical condition, he would have been the centerpiece.

Which would be laughed at by the A's. I doubt there is any chance of a deal without Moncada or Bienetendi unless you are including one of Betts, JBJ or X which of course you wouldn't be.

 

[dynomite]

When do we stop putting Rodriguez in the category of "a good starter"? He was awful during his rehab, and awful (luck in one notwithstanding) during 3 starts in the majors. He clearly not fully healthy, and it's becoming clear he can't pitch well through the injury. I think they're at the point where they need 2 starters already.

Certainly not encouraging so far. Including today: 6.06 ERA, 7.53 FIP, and only 16.1 IP in 3 starts. Still only a 16 inning sample though -- he could still be building up strength and conditioning after the layoff.

As for trading for 2 starters, I just can't see that happening. It's hard enough to find 1 attractive starting pitcher to target, let alone 2. When Rich Hill is (was?) considered the cream of the trade deadline starting crop, you know things are dire.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Which would be laughed at by the A's. I doubt there is any chance of a deal without Moncada or Bienetendi unless you are including one of Betts, JBJ or X which of course you wouldn't be.

I'm not convinced that Swihart, Devers, and Kopech would be laughed at at all.

 

[jon abbey]

Sabathia is pitching really well but he will be almost impossible to move without the Yankees picking up some of the remaining money (he is owed 25 million next year). There are too many red flags. He has a knee issue, he had a drinking problem (something that can't be overlooked), velocity is down, and he is a poorly conditioned athlete. Smaller market teams aren't going to want him, unless the Yankees pay a portion of his 2017 salary. And even big market teams like the Red Sox will not want to commit 25 million next year to a pitcher with so many red flags. If this was the last year of Sabathia's contract, the Yankees could move him, but with 25 million on the table for next season, I don't see it happening.

Velocity is back up, FWIW, he hit 92-93 a bunch of times yesterday. He's had 100 or so innings of 2.20 ERA since the start of September and is playoff-tested, so I think he'd be decidedly in demand even with the $25M salary (the fact that it's only one year is a positive in some ways) but it's hard to see him actually moving. Also, he has a limited no-trade clause, not sure which teams that covers.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Velocity is back up, FWIW, he hit 92-93 a bunch of times yesterday. He's had 100 or so innings of 2.20 ERA since the start of September and is playoff-tested, so I think he'd be decidedly in demand even with the $25M salary (the fact that it's only one year is a positive in some ways) but it's hard to see him actually moving. Also, he has a limited no-trade clause, not sure which teams that covers.

He's 10/5, so it doesn't matter what his no trade provisions are. And I think your assertion that he would be "decidedly in demand" is decidedly debatable. The option for next year is protected if his shoulder blows out but that's it. If he pulls his fat or has another issue with alcohol, the new team is on the hook. They could possibly dump him and kick in some $ towards 2017, but nobody is giving the Yankees anything prospect wise for that particular game of Russian roulette.

 

[jon abbey]

It's a moot point, I don't think he's going anywhere, but we're talking about a world where Rich Hill was much in demand before going on the DL. There's very little competent starting pitching to be had, as you guys are well aware.

 

[Byrdbrain]

I'm not convinced that Swihart, Devers, and Kopech would be laughed at at all.

Today it would, I suppose if Swihart and Kopech show they are healthy and perform well in the time before the trade deadline then maybe it wouldn't be.
As for CC he would be in great demand if all that was owed him was this year's salary like Hill is, that $25M for next year is the sticking point.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

It's a moot point, I don't think he's going anywhere, but we're talking about a world where Rich Hill was much in demand before going on the DL. There's very little competent starting pitching to be had, as you guys are well aware.

Where was Rich Hill in much demand other than speculative posts here or from a random water speculating on Billy Beane's proclivities? That's not meant to be a sarcastic question, but in fact a serious one? Can you cite serious trade scuttle on Hill about a market emerging? I've just not seen one.

On top, as Byrdbrain noted, Hill is on the hook for the remainder of his one year, $6M deal. That actually enhances his trade value, given that they are about equal once you strip contracts away and focus on recent performance and injury history.

We are aware that not much starting pitching is available, but that doesn't mean people are stupid.

 

[jon abbey]

This took me five seconds on Google, there are others:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/05/rich-hill-trade-athletics.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=13043 (Olney, Insider only)

http://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/A-s-Rich-Hill-not-sweating-trade-rumors-7953438.php

 

[simplicio]

Yeah, Rich Hill if healthy has probably been one of the top 3 starters in the league this year. Why on earth wouldn't there be a serious market for him?

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

Yeah, Rich Hill if healthy has probably been one of the top 3 starters in the league this year. Why on earth wouldn't there be a serious market for him?

Perhaps because other G.M.s around the league are well familiar with his injury history and innings totals in the past few years. Does anyone actually think a regular starter's workload, come August, won't have him turned back into a pumpkin by then? I'm not at all surprised he's starting to get injured now, he hasn't thrown this many innings in a long time, can only imagine how much he has left. Rich Hill scares the hell out of me, if I'm DD I stay as far away from him as I can

 

[Rasputin]

Perhaps because other G.M.s around the league are well familiar with his injury history and innings totals in the past few years. Does anyone actually think a regular starter's workload, come August, won't have him turned back into a pumpkin by then? I'm not at all surprised he's starting to get injured now, he hasn't thrown this many innings in a long time, can only imagine how much he has left. Rich Hill scares the hell out of me, if I'm DD I stay as far away from him as I can

Rich Hill is a reasonable gamble. It's certainly possible that he goes belly up, but if his current injury isn't what does it, there are going to be several teams after him and I don't imagine the As are going to hold out for much.

Sonny Gray is one of the few pitchers I think are worth getting. My one fear here is that Dombrowski will get into "Get it done" mode and trade one of Benintendi, Moncada, and Espinoza, but I think something like Devers, Chavis, Dubon, and Raudes might do it. It certainly wouldn't get laughed at. I'd be willing to include any of Owens, Johnson, or Elias considering Gray would settle the rotation. Gray, Price, Porcello, Wright, Rodriguez. That rotation is set until Price's opt out.

I think we also have to consider that Beane has a tendency to do unorthodox things. Both Buchholz and Kelly could be interesting investment opportunities. Neither of their salaries are particularly erroneous, and both have the potential to offer a significant return. Kelly could conceivably be kept until they have a relevant team and Buchholz could potentially be a significant trade target next year. Of course, that's predicated on them pitching better, but that's why they call it gambling. If I were Beane, the thought of turning Kelly into a relief ace in that big ballpark with all the foul territory would be pretty attractive. Something like Devers, Kopech, Kelly might be interesting for Beane. I don't think I'd make that trade if I were Beane, but his trades don't always make sense to anyone but him.

 

[deythur]

Rich Hill is a reasonable gamble. It's certainly possible that he goes belly up, but if his current injury isn't what does it, there are going to be several teams after him and I don't imagine the As are going to hold out for much.

Sonny Gray is one of the few pitchers I think are worth getting. My one fear here is that Dombrowski will get into "Get it done" mode and trade one of Benintendi, Moncada, and Espinoza, but I think something like Devers, Chavis, Dubon, and Raudes might do it. It certainly wouldn't get laughed at. I'd be willing to include any of Owens, Johnson, or Elias considering Gray would settle the rotation. Gray, Price, Porcello, Wright, Rodriguez. That rotation is set until Price's opt out.

I think we also have to consider that Beane has a tendency to do unorthodox things. Both Buchholz and Kelly could be interesting investment opportunities. Neither of their salaries are particularly erroneous, and both have the potential to offer a significant return. Kelly could conceivably be kept until they have a relevant team and Buchholz could potentially be a significant trade target next year. Of course, that's predicated on them pitching better, but that's why they call it gambling. If I were Beane, the thought of turning Kelly into a relief ace in that big ballpark with all the foul territory would be pretty attractive. Something like Devers, Kopech, Kelly might be interesting for Beane. I don't think I'd make that trade if I were Beane, but his trades don't always make sense to anyone but him.

This seems to be something I would be very comfortable with. Would it be possible or worth it to try and add Josh Roddick to this deal? It would require a shift to LF but he hits righties well and if Young returns to normal splits, could be a good platoon partner. Free agent at the end of the year with a low salary this year. HR's are down but does have some potential pop off the bench.

Dont me to derail but tying to Gray probably would only increase the asking price a little bit and if Beane wants to gamble lets see if he wants to Gamble on Rusney as well.

 

[YTF]

When do we stop putting Rodriguez in the category of "a good starter"? He was awful during his rehab, and awful (luck in one notwithstanding) during 3 starts in the majors. He clearly not fully healthy, and it's becoming clear he can't pitch well through the injury. I think they're at the point where they need 2 starters already.

You may well be right and that is part of the reason I keep advocating for the Sox to find a suitable partner to make a deal for a one, two or three type starter and not a #5. At present, I see Rodriguez as nothing more than a #5. Added to the question marks of this season so far is the fact that last season he often struggled with high pitch counts early in games. I think he's going to be OK in time, but he's not there yet. Given the nature of the knuckleball, I also think that it's unreasonable to think that Wright continues at this pace all season. If they continue to slide, I wonder if the White Sox might consider moving Jose Quintana. Twenty seven years old, in his fifth season. His B Ref page and contract status are below. Signed for reasonable money through 2018, team friendly options for 2019 and 2020.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/q/quintjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

2016 27 Chicago White Sox $5,400,000 3.133 $3.8m salary if not arbitration eligible after 2014 season
2017 28 Chicago White Sox $7,000,000 $6.0m salary if not arbitration eligible after 2014 season
2018 29 Chicago White Sox $8,850,000 $8.35m salary if not arbitration eligible after 2014 season
2019 30 Chicago White Sox *$10,500,000 $10.5M Team Option, $1M Buyout
2020 31 Chicago White Sox *$11,500,000 $11.5M Team Option, $1M Buyout
Earliest Free Agent: 2019

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

This seems to be something I would be very comfortable with. Would it be possible or worth it to try and add Josh Roddick to this deal? It would require a shift to LF but he hits righties well and if Young returns to normal splits, could be a good platoon partner. Free agent at the end of the year with a low salary this year. HR's are down but does have some potential pop off the bench.

Dont me to derail but tying to Gray probably would only increase the asking price a little bit and if Beane wants to gamble lets see if he wants to Gamble on Rusney as well.

So you're saying that Beane is going to give up two months of a $6.5 million outfielder who's quite good for four years of a $12M outfielder who isn't? Why would he do that? Is there any reason why he'd expect Rusney to be an upgrade over Jake Smolinski, a league-average hitter and defender who's a year and a half younger and won't be arb-eligible till 2018?

Rusney will turn 29 in a few weeks and has a career OPS+ of 85. At best, he's a defensive specialist 5th OF, and his stock has fallen to the point where the realistic upside is that if you find yourself so talent-strapped that you have to play him every day, you might break even on the salary. He's not a gamble anymore, he's an albatross--not a big heavy albatross, because the contract is so modest, just a baby albatross. But Beane is not working with a budget that can lightly take on even baby albatrosses. (Ponder this: if they traded for Rusney he would immediately become their second-highest-paid player.)

So if the idea is trying to add a Reddick rental as a sidebar to a Gray deal--and that's an intriguing idea, although the uncertainty around how he'll perform coming back from the thumb fracture makes it slightly less intriguing--I don't think Rusney enters into that conversation. It would need to be another prospect; for instance, if Gray costs Devers/Swihart/Kopech, then Gray + Reddick costs Devers/Swihart/Kopech/Basabe. (Or something like that; I wouldn't insist that either of those packages would necessarily fly.)

 

[benhogan]

Sonny Gray is one of the few pitchers I think are worth getting. My one fear here is that Dombrowski will get into "Get it done" mode and trade one of Benintendi, Moncada, and Espinoza, but I think something like Devers, Chavis, Dubon, and Raudes might do it. It certainly wouldn't get laughed at. I'd be willing to include any of Owens, Johnson, or Elias
I think we also have to consider that Beane has a tendency to do unorthodox things. Both Buchholz and Kelly could be interesting investment opportunities. Neither of their salaries are particularly erroneous, and both have the potential to offer a significant return. K

Excellent post and although all the players bolded above have somewhat struggled this season, this time last season guys like JBJ, Wright and Shaw would have been categorized like that. The Sox always seem to have an abundance of unpolished/undiscovered gems in their system. It wasn't so long ago that Owens was considered the top LH pitching prospect (with Johnson close behind) or that Buchholz was a #2 (his $13MM '17 option has quite a bit of value, especially if the Sox agree to subsidize it if exercised- pushing that cash liability to next season). Beane has fared well picking the Sox pockets before (Moss, Reddick etc), he could absolutely "buy low" on the Sox assets with the idea of a couple year window to see them blossom. The Sox are all in now (and short time value) and need what Oakland has: Gray, Reddick, Doolittle, Hill. Beane or any opposing GM with pitching could gather several of the Sox assets that just need time/patience to develop (and arbitrage the Sox situation).

Even though starting pitching is our biggest issue, I underlined Doolittle, since if we can't get a top tier starting pitcher, the next best route is solidifying the bullpen.

Reddick is extremely attractive but I'd rather solve the LH conundrum with a combo of Young, Holt and whatever comes the way of a DFA, and not use our undervalued assets bolded above on OF.

 

[j44thor]

You may well be right and that is part of the reason I keep advocating for the Sox to find a suitable partner to make a deal for a one, two or three type starter and not a #5. At present, I see Rodriguez as nothing more than a #5. Added to the question marks of this season so far is the fact that last season he often struggled with high pitch counts early in games. I think he's going to be OK in time, but he's not there yet. Given the nature of the knuckleball, I also think that it's unreasonable to think that Wright continues at this pace all season. If they continue to slide, I wonder if the White Sox might consider moving Jose Quintana. Twenty seven years old, in his fifth season. His B Ref page and contract status are below. Signed for reasonable money through 2018, team friendly options for 2019 and 2020.

Earliest Free Agent: 2019

Why would CHI trade a pitcher in his prime on a team friendly contract? I'm sure they expect to contend in the next 3yrs which Quintana will still be around for.

 

[GaryPeters71]

From Chad Finn: 10 pitchers (not named Rich Hill or Sonny Gray) who might interest the Red Sox
http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/12/pitching-trade-targets

1. Yordano Ventura
2. Zack Greinke
3. Daniel Hudson
4. Julio Teheran
5. Doug Fister
6. Aroldis Chapman
7. Andrew Miller
8. Jeremy Hellickson
9. Ervin Santana
10. Jose Fernandez

 

[Yaz4Ever]

6 and 7 will never happen, obviously. I'd love to see us buy as low as possible on 1, but the Royals are likely not willing to sell low, nor should they.

 

[PapaSox]

I'm not sure what Beane is thinking as a lot depends on a new stadium. If he does not have a new stadium on the horizon then he is going to need a stable of inexpensive players to pump into the lineup as he "payroll dumps" expensive players. Gray, Doolittle and Reddick are beginning to get expensive. This would be a good nucleus of a team going forward. However, if there is no money then they will need to be traded. Each player has had good seasons, struggles and injuries. There is a ton of potential but also the chance for a lot of disappointment. That being said a chance to grab those three as a package seems like a worthwhile pursuit. If they can retain health and bring themselves back to where (Gray) they were or maintain (Reddick) where they are then it would be useful to the Sox. They would address the issue we have been discussing - 5th Starter, strengthening the pen and possibly resolving LF.

What would it cost. It's not going to be cheap. Rasputin offered some possibilities. Maximus had another viable option. However, to pick these guys up as a group it would take prospects, good ones, and some ML level options. I'm not sure if offering an international slot would help but there is that also to look at. What I imagine it would take is Benintendi, Devers, Layne, Kelly, Marrero and Owens. I would try to limit it to those players, which in my mind is a great cache of players, with offering and international trade slot.

Some may scream of the insanity of this haul for Beane but I imagine that is what it would take. Beane needs to be able to keep the flow of young, quality players coming in to keep the team viable until something is worked out for replacing the coliseum. We get a viable group of ML level players who can correct some flaws in the Sox roster. Each has the potential to not work out but each also has the potential to bring the team to another level. If one fails that could be manageable but we need two of them to work out. They offer the potential to lift the team that little bit more to drive them to the playoffs and possibly a championship.

 

[simplicio]

From Chad Finn: 10 pitchers (not named Rich Hill or Sonny Gray) who might interest the Red Sox
http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/12/pitching-trade-targets

1. Yordano Ventura
2. Zack Greinke
3. Daniel Hudson
4. Julio Teheran
5. Doug Fister
6. Aroldis Chapman
7. Andrew Miller
8. Jeremy Hellickson
9. Ervin Santana
10. Jose Fernandez

I had a hard time reading past the part when he called James Shields a Rick Porcello clone.

I've come around to the idea of Greinke a bit, mostly because I think he's the closest thing to a salary dump on that list. If Henry's okay with the expense and it doesn't prevent us from offering extensions and we get to make Buchholz someone else's problem? Sure, sign me up, but I doubt that's at all likely.

Maybe I'm just in a prospect hoarding mood, but patience and faith in our prospects has supplied three quarters of our current fielders, and it looks like we have more greatness to come in the pipeline. I'm in no hurry to sell it off to overpay for a marginal upgrade over our 4th/5th starters.

 

[E5 Yaz]

From Chad Finn: 10 pitchers (not named Rich Hill or Sonny Gray) who might interest the Red Sox
http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/12/pitching-trade-targets

1. Yordano Ventura
2. Zack Greinke
3. Daniel Hudson
4. Julio Teheran
5. Doug Fister
6. Aroldis Chapman
7. Andrew Miller
8. Jeremy Hellickson
9. Ervin Santana
10. Jose Fernandez

Greinke and Price contracts on the same staff?

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I always stay away from trade speculation. But with the Yankees 1B woes in the news, I considered the following (note: considered) for critique.

Despite Shaw entering a mini-slump, I was kicking around in my head an improbable Yankee trade that involved trading the LHH Shaw to play 1B this this year and move to 3B next year when Bird comes back. In return, the Red Sox receive Miller and Headley. The Yankees reduce salary substantially by acquiring the cost-controlled ($515K, FA in 2022) Shaw and dumping Miller ($9M/yr through 2019) and Headley ($13M/yr through 2018) for a net reduction of $21.5M / year (with equivalent gain to the Red Sox). Headley takes over 3B as Sandoval insurance (or perhaps Pablo moves to 1B and Hanley to DH) with Moncada in the 3B wings (2017 or 2018) and/or Devers (projected around 2018).

This only makes sense of the Yankees are looking to reduce payroll and cover themselves at 1B / 3B while getting rid of Headley's bonehead contract. It also only makes sense if the Yankees move to the National League...or at least out of the AL East.

{A Kimbrel, Miller, Uehara, Tazawa bullpen would be sick. A Kimbrel, Miller, Carson back end in 2017 would be sicker}

 

[simplicio]

Wait, you want to massively downgrade our current and future corner infield situation and add 21.5 million to payroll to pick up a reliever? That's nuts.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

This took me five seconds on Google, there are others:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/05/rich-hill-trade-athletics.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/insider/post?id=13043 (Olney, Insider only)

http://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/A-s-Rich-Hill-not-sweating-trade-rumors-7953438.php

That's kinda my point. None of those articles say anything about him actually being called on. It's just writers identifying a likely trade target and speculating. I understand there's a fine line there, but still, not a single source saying "teams are asking about Rich Hill and Beane is asking for X kind of package".

 

[simplicio]

That's kinda my point. None of those articles say anything about him actually being called on. It's just writers identifying a likely trade target and speculating. I understand there's a fine line there, but still, not a single source saying "teams are asking about Rich Hill and Beane is asking for X kind of package".

The trade deadline is still over a month and a half away; pretty much everything you see right now will be writers trying to hit word counts with speculation and fans being impatient on the internet. That's not specific to Oakland. How irresponsible would it be for the Sox to call Beane about Gray right now, before they've tried Elias, before they've seen how Kopech comes back from injury and what Swihart's situation is?