Red Sox Deadline Discussion

[ivanvamp]

 
I think they will look to acquire Lee and sign one of Shields/Iwakuma.  They'll be fine.

 
Shields will likely command a salary similar to Lester's in the offseason.  They'd only be on the hook for 1-2 years of Lee at $52.5 million, but he'd also be ages 36-37.  And they'd have to trade for him.  Iwakuma is already 33 and will likely get a 4-year deal in the $18-20 million range.
 
In other words, they'll end up having to pay nearly as much for those guys as they would have for Lester.  More if you assume Lackey would have played for below-marked wages in 2015.

 

[ivanvamp]

Financial flexibility and a bazillion prospects.

There are worse spots to be in.

 
Well, last place.  Hard to get much worse than that.  
 
Of course, we could be in last place with no financial flexibility and no prospects...

 

[SouthernBoSox]

 
Well, if so, then the Sox' starting staff needs a serious rebuild.  Unless they're just going to go with the kids and see how that works out.

Basically.

We've got 2 months to see what the AAA arms have got. You've got to think one is going to really step up and cement a spot.

 

[Puffy]

Financial flexibility and a bazillion prospects.

There are worse spots to be in.

 
I could see the Sox looking at potential quasi-salary dump type-deals in the offseason in order to fill some holes on the roster, to supplement the current roster and wading too deep into the free agent market. Kemp and Craig come to mind as recent rumors fitting that mold, but there are probably others.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

With Lester and Lackey you very much control the SP market.

"Hey you missed out on Lester, but he's another vet who is a bulldog in the postseason, and he's signed through 2015."

That's a very strong negotiating spot to be in.

 

[Carmen Fanzone]

Seems like Lackey and his 2015 minimum salary are a better fit for Pittsburgh, no?
 
Lester to LAD for something involving Pederson/Seager/Lee, and Lacky to PIT for something centered around Bell, then Miller somewhere for another key prospect? That'd be some day's work.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 

[RIrooter09]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 
Are we just making shit up at this point?

 

[MakMan44]

That's still one sided for the Red Sox. 

 

[bosockboy]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 
Just wow.

 

[amfox1]

With Lester and Lackey you very much control the SP market.

"Hey you missed out on Lester, but he's another vet who is a bulldog in the postseason, and he's signed through 2015."

That's a very strong negotiating spot to be in.

 
Which is yet another reason to get the Lester trade done today, to give the Lackey market time to come together.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

 
Please kindly descend from your high horse . SOSH is enjoyable because its a place to talk intelligently with other Red Sox fans. At the trade deadline it is especially entertaining and with constantly new information yes I react and my posts are far from "same" or "hyperbolic". Most of the time I cite to other information or baseball sources  
 
Here's  more sedate version for you : The A's system is generally considered to be very low on talent after the Shark deal. I'd strongly prefer another team. 

Can you please go away?  Seriously.  Browndog has flecks of things in his stool that bring far more value than you.  SoSH should be an enjoyable place to speak intelligently, but you drag it down.
 
I've never requested that a lurker be banned, but I'd like to now.  This guy brings NOTHING to the table other than making other useless posters (like me) seem valuable.
 

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

I'm on board

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Are we just making shit up at this point?

Yes. Need something to pass the time.

 

[mabrowndog]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 
Pretty sure I saw this in the comments section of a Shaughnessy article.
 
Except it was in all capital letters. With multiple misspelled words. And written in crayon.

 

[ivanvamp]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 
That indeed would be crazy.
 
The interesting thing here is this:  If Hamels, Lee, and Price are not really available (for different reasons), then the Red Sox have not just the best, but also the second best starting pitching chip to deal.  They can deal Lester, and then hold Lackey out to those teams that missed out on Lester.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Pretty sure I saw this in the comments section of a Shaughnessy article.
 
Except it was in all capital letters. With multiple misspelled words. And written in crayon.

I probably should have included Nava and Carp in the deal would have tipped the scales a bit.

 

[TomRicardo]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 
Explain the Cardinals rational.

 

[Back Bay]

What about a crazy deal

Boston gets
Oscar Taveras
Shelby Miller
Carlos Martinez
Matt Adams
2 other prospects

STL receives
Jon Lester
John Lackey
Mike Napoli
Stephen Drew
Andrew Miller

 

What, no comic san characters?

 

[MakMan44]

 
That indeed would be crazy.
 
The interesting thing here is this:  If Hamels, Lee, and Price are not really available (for different reasons), then the Red Sox have not just the best, but also the second best starting pitching chip to deal.  They can deal Lester, and then hold Lackey out to those teams that missed out on Lester.

Lee is certainly available, but I think you're right. It's why getting a Lester deal done today is a good idea.  

 

[Carmen Fanzone]

Who is in the Red Sox front office (or any FO, for that matter) who is taking the time to trade texts or phone calls with Rosenthal, et al with this much potential interaction with other teams going on? I'm always suspicious of these last-hours pronouncements for that reason.

 

[mabrowndog]

Meanwhile, how will the last place Red Sox distract their fan base from the voluminous and vehement backlash in advance of dealing their favorite cancer-recovered, Ford Truck-driving, would-take-a-hometown-discount, two-time World Series champion, ace starting pitcher?
 
By once again exploiting the United States military, of course.
 
https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/494512764535054337
 
 
'MERICA!!!!!
 

 

 

[mfried]

 
Just wow.

Hold on to Miller - toss in Mujica, Breslow and Carp.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Who is in the Red Sox front office (or any FO, for that matter) who is taking the time to trade texts or phone calls with Rosenthal, et al with this much potential interaction with other teams going on? I'm always suspicious of these last-hours pronouncements for that reason.

G38 has mentioned this, and my neighbor the interim GM has told me the same thing numerous times:  90% of what gets out there, gets put out there for a reason.
 
IOW, yes, someone in a FO somewhere is indeed taking the time to text or call reporters.  May not always get the desired reaction, but they're hoping that it does.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Explain the Cardinals rational.

If they were stupid enough to do that? Sure. They get probably the best LHP RP currently and two playoff horses that combined with Wainwright make up a three headed monster of immense proportions. Napoli is a current upgrade at 1B. Drew is well...Drew. Last I heard that name has a lot of meaning in St Louis....

 

[SouthernBoSox]

If they were stupid enough to do that? Sure. They get probably the best LHP RP currently and two playoff horses that combined with Wainwright make up a three headed monster of immense proportions. Napoli is a current upgrade at 1B. Drew is well...Drew. Last I heard that name has a lot of meaning in St Louis....

What the hell does this mean?  Are you trying to say that because he is JD's brother that is somehow.
 
You know what, nevermind. Let's all try to move on from this proposal.

 

[bosockboy]

If they were stupid enough to do that? Sure. They get probably the best LHP RP currently and two playoff horses that combined with Wainwright make up a three headed monster of immense proportions. Napoli is a current upgrade at 1B. Drew is well...Drew. Last I heard that name has a lot of meaning in St Louis....

Matt Adams has been significantly better than Napoli this year.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

wouldn't Lackey bring back more than Lester?

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Matt Adams has been significantly better than Napoli this year.

 
The adverb is a stretch, but he certainly hasn't been worse. They've been pretty comparable, and if anything Adams has the edge.

 

[ookami7m]

 
Pretty sure I saw this in the comments section of a Shaughnessy article.
 
Except it was in all capital letters. With multiple misspelled words. And written in crayon.

 
Shank moved up to crayons?

 

[Boston Brawler]

Meanwhile, how will the last place Red Sox distract their fan base from the voluminous and vehement backlash in advance of dealing their favorite cancer-recovered, Ford Truck-driving, would-take-a-hometown-discount, two-time World Series champion, ace starting pitcher?
 
By once again exploiting the United States military, of course.

 
 
'MERICA!!!!!
 

 

Pretty shameless considering they have some of the worst veteran/active duty deals in the majors.

 

[Plympton91]

Basically.

We've got 2 months to see what the AAA arms have got. You've got to think one is going to really step up and cement a spot.

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

 
Now you're not even making an effort.
 
Small was 34 fucking years old that year.  Comparing that to the evaluation of a 24 year old kid is pretty dumb.
 
I didn't realize we now evaluate pitchers based on record.  Did you bother to look at his other numbers?  Since I'm assuming you didn't, I can tell you that they weren't very good.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

We all realize that some folks are a bit tense right now, but let's all do our best to act like adults please. There have been a few personal attacks in this, and a couple of other threads. Go after the post and not the poster. The Report button is there for a reason. You can always send a PM as well. 
 
Thanks

 

[rodderick]

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

 
He went 10-0 with a 4.38 K/9 and a 4.81 xFIP. Yeah, I think the front office will look further than win/loss record to determine whether or not our young pitchers are ready to take a spot in the 2015 rotation. Sure, 2 months aren't enough to make a definitive statement either way, but they can be helpful in that evaluation.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

You want us to compare Aaron Small to AAA pitchers who have never pitched in the majors?
 
You call them up for nothing else other than experience. And if they perform well then it's gravy.  If one really stands out then it does mean something going into 2015.

 

[twothousandone]

Hearing #redsox are asking for teams' best prospects for Andrew Miller. Might have to drop price to make a deal happen.

That's pretty much what they should ask for. They might settle for something less, but in trying to attach value to what they're giving up, Miller has a TON of value. It is very tough to unlock it, thus I think he stays. AND, because middle relievers are unpredictable, it could be a complete waste if he tanks next year. Which is why teams are unlikely to give up a top prospect for him.
 
(Just to pick names already mentioned) Is  Nunez, Oakland's new #3 prospect, a fair price for Miller? I don't think Oakland will give up Robertson or Pomeranz for him. Especially since they are very likely to make the post-season. I'm not sure Miller is a difference maker for Oakland in the playoffs, especially if Beane still believes it's a bit like rolling dice. 

 

[Apisith]

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

His peripherals weren't that good and he didn't have the minor league or major league track record. If our young guys, like Ranaudo and Webster, get 10 starts each and put up an ERA in the mid 3s, it'd have far more significance.

I'm all up for giving them - Ranaudo, Webster, Workman and De La Rosa - 10 starts each to see what we got. Hopefully we get 2 premium prospects out of Lackey, Lester and Miller, then go wild in free agency with our protected pick. We should be set up for a five year run if things work out, starting next year or the year after.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

That's pretty much what they should ask for. They might settle for something less, but in trying to attach value to what they're giving up, Miller has a TON of value. It is very tough to unlock it, thus I think he stays. AND, because middle relievers are unpredictable, it could be a complete waste if he tanks next year. Which is why teams are unlikely to give up a top prospect for him.

 
He's a free agent, so I don't see how the possibility of him tanking next year affects his trade value now.

 

[dcmissle]

And a reliever. Even if you send every contender a tape of the Nats' cock punch pen meltdown the night before last in Miami, you're not getting "best prospect" unless the team's best is just somebody else's good.

And, teams know the chances of the RS resigning him are very slim.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
Aaron Small once went 10-1 in half a season; 2 months tells you nothing of value, except create false hope if they do well or irrational despair if they don't.   If you believe the front office is as smart as they think they are, then they aren't making long-term decisions based on a 2 month sample size. 

 
Jesus Christ. Aaron Small was a 33 year old journeyman vet with 156 major league games under his belt when he was called up to go 10-1 with the Yankees in 2005. There's no comparison between seeing what AAA arm might do in a 2 month stint in the majors and what a 33 year old vet does in the same situation. And you know this.
 
At this point you're wasting everyone's time with this nonsense. Cut the shit or maybe take a 48 hour vacation from the site. I'm thoroughly sick of your constant strawmen and attention-whoring over your pet hobbyhorses. My God.

 

[amfox1]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 36s
The Indians are trading Justin Masterson to the Cardinals

Joel Sherman ‏@joelsherman1 5s
Masterson to #stlcards hearing that James Ramsey is going back to the #Indians

 

[Apisith]

Ramsey is currently ranked as the 6th best prospect in the Cards system. He's in AA, putting up 385/585.

He was the 23rd pick in the 2012 draft, blossoming this year.

How much better can we do for Lester?

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Ramsey is currently ranked as the 6th best prospect in the Cards system. He's in AA, putting up 385/585.

How much better can we do for Lester?

You'd think.... substantially.
 
Masterson is certainly pitching better than his overall results. That's a pretty salty trade for the Cardinals, which is to be expected.

 

[Apisith]

It looks like the Indians got what is equivalent to a low first round pick who is panning out. We should be able to do much better.

Anyway, this looks to me like we have a better offer in our hand already.

 

[amfox1]

Only if someone wants to pay the freight.  STL traded a B- prospect for two months of Masterson.  BOS is looking for two A-/B+ prospects for two months of Lester.

 

[Robert Plant]

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/494518378196127744

If this is the case, I certainly hope we get a cost controlled, middle of order, big impact bat and a bunch of high level prospects in return. If you assume a big impact bat, all the young pitching and the right free agent signings, we could be contenders in 2016.

 

[Apisith]

Only if someone wants to pay the freight.  STL traded a B-/C+ prospect for two months of Masterson.  BOS is looking for two A-/B+ prospects for two months of Lester.

Yeah but if this was the best offer out there, I'm sure we would have taken it. It's essentially a time-forwarded low first round pick that we would have got from Lester, a pick that is actually panning out.

 

[rodderick]

If this is the case, I certainly hope we get a cost controlled, middle of order, big impact bat and a bunch of high level prospects in return. If you assume a big impact bat, all the young pitching and the right free agent signings, we could be contenders in 2016.

 
You'll most likely be very disappointed in the coming hours, then.

 

[amfox1]

Yeah but if this was the best offer out there, I'm sure we would have taken it. It's essentially a time-forwarded low first round pick that we would have got from Lester, a pick that is actually panning out.

 
I'm not sure Ramsey is the equivalent of the #30 pick in next year's draft.  He projects as a fourth OF.  In any event, it's not clearly better than the pick.

 

[Corsi]

 

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi  1m
Sources: Marlins and Red Sox are discussing a possible John Lackey trade. @FOXSports1