Red Sox Deadline Discussion

[Tyrone Biggums]

I would still rank the desirable partners as

1) St Louis
2) Pittsburgh
3) LA

Brewers have nothing that the Sox would want in a Lester deal. Bell alone probably knocks out Milwaukee.

It will come down to which players offer the best combo of Prospects and relievers. If you don't think Ben will value an RP prospect high then look at every single one of his deals with the exception of the Dodgers deal. He LOVES collecting bullpen arms.

 

[bankshot1]

 
The Red Sox are 10,000x more likely to end up Giancarlo Stanton Friday than Puig.

That may be, but the Dodgers want Lester, and Puig could be the RH-power bat the Sox need. I'm just curious from the LAD's perspective what it would take to get him.

 

[TomRicardo]

That may be, but the Dodgers want Lester, and Puig could be the RH-power bat the Sox need. I'm just curious from the LAD's perspective what it would take to get him.

 
Ok Pedroia, Lester, Ortiz, Bogaerts and Uehara with the Red Sox kicking 100% of their salary.

 

[moondog80]

 
The Red Sox are 10,000x more likely to end up Giancarlo Stanton Friday than Puig.

I think they're more likely to end up with me than Puig.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I would still rank the desirable partners as

1) St Louis
2) Pittsburgh
3) LA

 
St. Louis is more desirable than the other two only if you think Lester is going to fetch the consensus #3 prospect in baseball. I just can't see that happening. Especially since (unlike PIttsburgh and, in a more complicated way, LA) St. Louis does not really have an outfield logjam that makes Taveras dispensable. They have enviable OF prospect depth (and I do envy it), but that's a different thing. They will have no trouble placing Taveras in the starting lineup just as soon as they think he's ready. This is not as straightforward for Bell and Pederson.
 
I think Pittsburgh/Bell really makes the most sense. The idea of Polanco, with Miller and a subsidized Victorino heading over to sweeten the deal, is also intriguing, though it seems less likely to me.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
St. Louis is more desirable than the other two only if you think Lester is going to fetch the consensus #3 prospect in baseball. I just can't see that happening. Especially since (unlike PIttsburgh and, in a more complicated way, LA) St. Louis does not really have an outfield logjam that makes Taveras dispensable. They have enviable OF prospect depth (and I do envy it), but that's a different thing. They will have no trouble placing Taveras in the starting lineup just as soon as they think he's ready. This is not as straightforward for Bell and Pederson.
 
I think Pittsburgh/Bell really makes the most sense. The idea of Polanco, with Miller and a subsidized Victorino heading over to sweeten the deal, is also intriguing, though it seems less likely to me.

The fact they are bogged down and have great OF depth puts the Sox and Cards in an interesting trade predicament. I could see Taveras and Miller/Martinez going to Boston for Lester Nava and Miller. A week ago I would agree with you but with a lot of teams bidding against each other I wouldn't rule this out. Is it likely? I don't know but what I do know is that St Louis has a major strength in their system in corner outfielders. Boston's biggest organization weakness is corner outfield.

In short because of the demand the chances of this return is improved over last week. I also wouldn't put it past St Louis to think that once they get him in there that he would be like McGwire and Holliday and sign at the end of the year.

 

[TomRicardo]

They could use a catcher too, better toss in Vazquez or Swihart just to be sure.

 
Great now Colletti is demanding both.  AND A SIGNED PICTURE OF BEN AFFLECK AS BATMAN
 
Edit - I think Lucchino was just sent out to go find tasteful Bea Arthur nudes.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

 
Great now Colletti is demanding both.  AND A SIGNED PICTURE OF BEN AFFLECK AS BATMAN
 
Edit - I think Lucchino was just sent out to go find tasteful Bea Arthur nudes.

No one wants that.  No one.
 
LAD trading Puig.  I wish I knew how to add rolling, laughing emoticons.  Tom might be exaggerating what it would take a little, but not much.  Plus, how long would Puig and CHB last in the same clubhouse after a base running blunder?  Actually, that's a good reason to acquire him

 

[Byrdbrain]

 
Great now Colletti is demanding both.  AND A SIGNED PICTURE OF BEN AFFLECK AS BATMAN
 
Edit - I think Lucchino was just sent out to go find tasteful Bea Arthur nudes.

Is there any other kind?

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

No one wants that.  No one.
 
LAD trading Puig.  I wish I knew how to add rolling, laughing emoticons.  Tom might be exaggerating what it would take a little, but not much.  Plus, how long would Puig and CHB last in the same clubhouse after a base running blunder?  Actually, that's a good reason to acquire him

 
:rolling:
 
It's under "show more." It's also very appropriate here. Puig being traded is probably one of the few things less likely to happen than a Pedroia trade.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Look if we're throwing spitballs--yes I know LAA doesn't really need Lester per se, but what kind of package would it take centered around him to pry ol' Mikey Trout loose?

 

[Marbleheader]

What's the consensus here on Price's availability? He could throw a wrinkle into the return on Lester. I can't see Tampa holding on to an asset like Price as a small market team that can set themselves up for long term success. The Sox may be playing teams off each other, but I can see those teams saying 'Well, we'll call you back after we make a call to Tampa'

 

[DJnVa]

It's probably a pipe dream, but would Lackey plus a lesser prospect (Barnes, Workman, Webster?) or another useful piece entirely be enough to pry Walker from the Mariners?

And does Brock Holt have any real trade value?

 
Why would you trade a young(ish) player that can cover a number of position for hardly no cost?

 

[nattysez]

I think he's staying put. TB has a shot still and they can likely get more for him in the offseason when acquiring team can talk extension.

Edit: plus that will likely bite the team trying that bluff in the butt when they have to call back last minute and Ben is asking for even more.

 
Also, look at the return the Cubs got for Samardzija -- why would you give up a chance to make the playoffs this year if a desperate team might still give you an Addison Russell in the off-season (or even next July)?

 

[Rough Carrigan]

So, according to MLB Network, Ruben Amaro asked for Pederson, Seager and Urias in return for Cole Hamels. 
 
It's great to be the good cop, isn't it Cherington?

 

[nvalvo]

So, according to MLB Network, Ruben Amaro asked for Pederson, Seager and Urias in return for Cole Hamels. 
 
It's great to be the good cop, isn't it Cherington?

 
We only want two. 

 

[Rough Carrigan]

 
We only want two. 

Although their guy's not a rental.

 

[moondog80]

So, according to MLB Network, Ruben Amaro asked for Pederson, Seager and Urias in return for Cole Hamels. 
 
It's great to be the good cop, isn't it Cherington?

Hamels is already signed for cheaper than Lester will command. Why shouldn't he ask for more?

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Hamels is already signed for cheaper than Lester will command. Why shouldn't he ask for more?

No one said he shouldn't ask for "more." Rough's suggesting it's a bit much to be asking for that specifically.

 

[dcmissle]

One thing people have to be aware of in this ongoing sale especially with regard to Lester is that this is going to be an extremely young team for the next three years at least. 
The player development  slog isn't going away. If you sign Lester for more than 4 years, he will be hitting the downside of his career just when all these kids are hitting their prime. The best three years of his production could well be used up in seasons much like this one.
 
That isn't good for JL or for JWH.
 
What isn't happening here is a cold eyed appraisal of the team going forward. They are going to be breaking in prospects for the next  three years.They will struggle. Anyone outside New England knows this is how it goes. 

Yes. We are spoiled in this sport and the others too

We plainly don't have the mettle at this point for the tough slog, over seasons. We've seen it this year. One guy struggles, include him in a trade. Another guy, well send him down.

We don't have calluses anymore, and this will take some getting used to.

 

[TomRicardo]

Hamels is already signed for cheaper than Lester will command. Why shouldn't he ask for more?

 
He should have asked for Puig /bankshot1

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Hamels is already signed for cheaper than Lester will command. Why shouldn't he ask for more?

Well Cherington might note that Hamels has been good in the postseason while, overall, Lester's been great.  I'm not saying it's a great argument but when talking to a team that's sort of throwing caution to the wind and in go for it mode, that would be a factor you'd definitely play up.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

No one said he shouldn't ask for "more." Rough's suggesting it's a bit much to be asking for that specifically.

One interesting tidbit from MLB Network is that, according to Ken Rosenthal, the guy Don Mattingly wants playing centerfield for him *right now* is Pederson.

 

[snowmanny]

Who does he want starting game 3 of a playoff series?

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Greinke hopefully

 

[Hank Scorpio]

 
Why would you trade a young(ish) player that can cover a number of position for hardly no cost?

 
I'd shop him and see what the market for him is.
 
If the Red Sox think he's really a high average/OBP guy going forward, then he fills a need. If they think regression to something much less than what he's been is more than likely, now would be the time to consider selling him.

 

[moondog80]

No one said he shouldn't ask for "more." Rough's suggesting it's a bit much to be asking for that specifically.

If the Sox can ask for two stud prospects for months of Lester, isn't 3 for 5 extra years of Hamels reasonable?

 

[Corsi]

 

David O'Brien ‏@DOBrienAJC  4m
BoSox prefer power-hitting young OF in trade for LH A. Miller. #Braves don't have that, but perhaps Cunningham or Terdo + pitching prospect?
 

 

[JohntheBaptist]

If the Sox can ask for two stud prospects for months of Lester, isn't 3 for 5 extra years of Hamels reasonable?

You keep saying "3" and "more" as if Urias is interchangeable with other, lower-rated Dodger prospects. That wasn't my point. The point of the post in question was to highlight that Amaro's ask added #3 to our ask of #1 and #2. Then you said "why not ask for more?" The point was that "more" meant "Urias" for Amaro.
 
If the anecdote read "They want Pederson/ Seager/ another from the top 20," followed by Rough's identical commentary, I'd be right there with you.

 

[MakMan44]

In addition to Holt, that applies to Miller and maybe Nava, as well. 

I'm not so sure on Miller. He's seemingly got a lot of value. I'd like to keep him, but as browndog pointed out elsewhere on the board, it's not in the cards. At least Holt and Nava still have a lot of team control left. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
The Red Sox are 10,000x more likely to end up Giancarlo Stanton Friday than Puig.

Link?

 

[Corsi]

https://twitter.com/McCulloughStar/status/494274990997381121

 

[bosockboy]

Lackey makes a ton of sense for the Royals. He replaces Shields next year and buys Dayton Moore another season worth of rope.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Another season? Really? For $500K?

 

[moondog80]

You keep saying "3" and "more" as if Urias is interchangeable with other, lower-rated Dodger prospects. That wasn't my point. The point of the post in question was to highlight that Amaro's ask added #3 to our ask of #1 and #2. Then you said "why not ask for more?" The point was that "more" meant "Urias" for Amaro.
 
If the anecdote read "They want Pederson/ Seager/ another from the top 20," followed by Rough's identical commentary, I'd be right there with you.

 
 
I get that Urias is really good.  My point is that I think asking for a 3rd prospect similar to Pederson/Seager is reasonable given Hamels' contract.  You are free to disagree.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
 
I get that Urias is really good.  My point is that I think asking for a 3rd prospect similar to Pederson/Seager is reasonable given Hamels' contract.  You are free to disagree.

I'll say it again- your initial post questioned Rough's by categorizing the new set of players as simply "more" when it was obviously meant to highlight Urias' inclusion with the familiar other two. It wasnt a distinction of an extra player, it was a distinction of a specific player. I was clarifying this for you. I haven't tried to make any point other than that.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

[QUOTE="Hriniak]
Another season? Really? For $500K?
[/QUOTE]Yes some people are still delusional enough to believe this. I doubt the Royals are however.

 

[bosockboy]

Cole Hamels to Cards rumors swirling in St. Louis. That would take away one of the Lester replacement options.

 

[Stitch01]

Yes. We are spoiled in this sport and the others too
We plainly don't have the mettle at this point for the tough slog, over seasons. We've seen it this year. One guy struggles, include him in a trade. Another guy, well send him down.
We don't have calluses anymore, and this will take some getting used to.

I'm a reasonably strong supporter of this front office, but three years like this one aren't really acceptable for a team with the Red Sox resources and current farm system playing in a division that's not likely to be great over the next three years. Transitioning to a new core will have growing pains, but if they aren't fielding a contender by 2016 the guys running the team in the front office and on the field won't be around, and rightfully so. It's not really about mettle or what we can accept, it just won't really be acceptable to parlay a top five payroll and a strong farm system into four seasons of mediocrity or worse. That's too much rope.

 

[bosockboy]

I'm a reasonably strong supporter of this front office, but three years like this one aren't really acceptable for a team with the Red Sox resources and current farm system playing in a division that's not likely to be great over the next three years. Transitioning to a new core will have growing pains, but if they aren't fielding a contender by 2016 the guys running the team in the front office and on the field won't be around, and rightfully so. It's not really about mettle or what we can accept, it just won't really be acceptable to parlay a top five payroll and a strong farm system into four seasons of mediocrity or worse. That's too much rope.

This will be 5 out of 6 seasons without winning a playoff game. Winning it out of nowhere last year really makes it easy to forget that.

 

[mabrowndog]

delete
 
(duplicate content from Lester thread)

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

This will be 5 out of 6 seasons without winning a playoff game. Winning it out of nowhere last year really makes it easy to forget that.

The issues plaguing the rosters pre-Punto trade were very different from what Ben and company are sorting out now.  But yeah, winning a World Series is a great diversionary tactic to prevent your fans from realizing what a pile of suckage your organization is.

 

[mikeford]

Lester scratched for tomorrow. This is it. Let the sadness wash over you.  They really gonna trade him because ownership is too cheap to pay one of the best lefties in baseball.

 

[Curll]

This isn't quite 2005 or 2006 WILL MANNY BE TRADED deadline stuff, but it is getting pretty good

 

[Harry Hooper]

The issues plaguing the rosters pre-Punto trade were very different from what Ben and company are sorting out now.  But yeah, winning a World Series is a great diversionary tactic to prevent your fans from realizing what a pile of suckage your organization is.

 
It's an odd sort of proficiency when you wrap last-place seasons in a mediocre division around both ends of a WS title campaign while claiming the goal is continuous contender status. 

 

[edoug]

Bradford says it's going to happen soon.
 
https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/494307864971059200

 

[bosockboy]

Most volatile stretch in club history I'd think. 2011 collapse, 2012 Hindenburg, 2013 win it all, 2014 Hindenburg The Sequel. That is freaking random.

 

[DJnVa]

 
I'd shop him and see what the market for him is.
 
If the Red Sox think he's really a high average/OBP guy going forward, then he fills a need. If they think regression to something much less than what he's been is more than likely, now would be the time to consider selling him.

 
He doesn't need to be a high average guy to fill a need. Since he can cover multiple spots he can simply be decent. 
 
I don't know--I just can't imagine he brings enough back to even worry about dealing him. He's also cost-controlled and fills a need. That's not generally who teams sell at the deadline.

 

[The Boomer]

Lester scratched for tomorrow. This is it. Let the sadness wash over you.  They really gonna trade him because ownership is too cheap to pay one of the best lefties in baseball.

 
Scratching his start tomorrow just means that they will negotiate right up to the deadline.  Thursday is an off day.  If they keep him, he just gets extra rest.  Skipping tomorrow's start just keeps their options open.

 

[sackamano]

It's baseball ... once in awhile players don't hit like they are supposed to hit. It just isn't very often that it happens to an entire team.
 
Everything that turned into roses last season, basically turned into shit this season. It happens in baseball.
 
Jacoby Ellsbury was not going to make a 20-game difference in the standings.