Papelbon's Poutine said:
I'm not sure I see your point. Could you elaborate?
The point came up initially in the context of "this offer will not be the highest/best he sees" and most subsequent discussion has tacitly acknowledged that point.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
I'm not sure I see your point. Could you elaborate?
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Thank you, this is exactly my point. They can't prevent anyone from taking an offer and I don't think anyone is going to be black balled by their peers for taking a discount to go where they want.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
I'm not sure I see your point. Could you elaborate?
lxt said:This is the opening offer and one that all other teams must start with. There is a good chance the Sox will need to raise their offer to finally bring Lester home. I imagine they know this as well as anyone else.
Doc Zero said:I'm having real bad Teixeira flashbacks right now.
If I'm looking for an example of a guy taking the most money because the union told him to, Papelbon's not quite the first one that comes to mind.JohntheBaptist said:
If you think back to Papelbon, remember how he would sort of spit this line of thinking out like it'd been fed to him.
Didn't cliff Lee take less money to not go to the Yankees?kieckeredinthehead said:If I'm looking for an example of a guy taking the most money because the union told him to, Papelbon's not quite the first one that comes to mind.
kieckeredinthehead said:If I'm looking for an example of a guy taking the most money because the union told him to, Papelbon's not quite the first one that comes to mind.
STILL TOO SOON!E5 Yaz said:
Tony Gwynn spoke about just such pressure.
When he was still alive, of course
I don't think it's any kind of secret that the union wants you to take the best deal. I'm not exactly media and we were just chatting about a lot of stuff. Again, saying the union wants you to take the biggest deal isn't any kind of secret.E5 Yaz said:
Not that I don't believe you, but why would a union rep actually admit that this happens?
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Maybe some guys do, but exactly how persuasive do you think this is? How much do they actually give a shit? Enough to cave? I highly doubt it.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
And I agree with you, but I don't think it's anywhere close to being labeled a pariah or black balled. It's not scabs crossing the picket line. And I don't think it actually plays any significant part in anyone's decision. They might say it does and we obviously can't determine that in certainty, but if they are that susceptible to the union pushing them, then they likely are taking the biggest offer anyway. YMMV.
Edit: And are we really using Papelbon as an example of how influential outside voices can be? I'm pretty sure if I bought him enough Bud Lights I could convince him to jump off the Tobin.
Didn't AJ Burnett take $4M less than the QO to go elsewhere just last week?soxhop411 said:Didn't cliff Lee take less money to not go to the Yankees?
I believe soYaz4Ever said:Didn't AJ Burnett take $4M less than the QO to go elsewhere just last week?
Yaz4Ever said:Didn't AJ Burnett take $4M less than the QO to go elsewhere just last week?
E5 Yaz said:
And Kirby Puckett took less to stay with the Twins instead of coming to Fenway.
So are you using Papelbon as an example of a guy who took the most money because the union pressured him to or not?JohntheBaptist said:
That's the extent of the "pressure" MLBPA likely exerts--making you feel, from your entry into professional baseball, that taking less than market value can hurt your peers. Maybe none of them believe it/ care, maybe only some--like Papelbon clearly did.
Darnell's Son said:
And now he's dead, the Union doesn't mess around.
Really good news. I knew there had to be more to the offer than just the numbers or else it was just a 'well, we tried, but got outbid' kind of thing.RedOctober3829 said:According to a source familiar with the situation, the Red Sox have made it clear that there will be a willingness to negotiate with Jon Lester and his representatives after extending an offer during the two sides meeting earlier this week.
While a Boston Globe report suggested the Sox offer was for six years at between $110-120 million, the source suggested the teams initial offseason proposal was part of a more complex discussion about potential contract parameters.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/11/19/source-red-sox-showing-willingness-to-negotiate-after-initial-offer/
Bradford
RedOctober3829 said:According to a source familiar with the situation, the Red Sox have made it clear that there will be a “willingness to negotiate” with Jon Lester and his representatives after extending an offer during the two sides’ meeting earlier this week.
While a Boston Globe report suggested the Sox’ offer was for six years at between $110-120 million, the source suggested the team’s initial offseason proposal was part of a more complex discussion about potential contract parameters.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/11/19/source-red-sox-showing-willingness-to-negotiate-after-initial-offer/
Bradford
I think it's more likely that it was a simple "if you get a better offer we would appreciate it if you give use a chance to match or better it"moondog80 said:"Here's our offer. If you want us to go up, we will, but we'd rather you take this."
moondog80 said:
"Here's our offer. If you want us to go up, we will, but we'd rather you take this."
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:I think it's more likely that it was a simple "if you get a better offer we would appreciate it if you give use a chance to match or better it"
Not.kieckeredinthehead said:So are you using Papelbon as an example of a guy who took the most money because the union pressured him to or not?
I am not an accountant but I don't think it'd work.If a Player Option Year falls in the 2012 Contract Year or later, and the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Player Option Year (“Player Option Year Value”) is less than 80% of the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Guaranteed Year with the smallest such figure before the first such Player Option Year (80% Figure), then the difference between the 80% Figure and the Player Option Year Value shall be allocated pro rata across the Guaranteed Years preceding the first such Player Option Year; provided, however, that if the 80% Figure is itself less than 75% of the Average Annual Value of the Contract (calculated as if the Player Option Year was not a Guaranteed Year), then the 80% Figure shall instead be 75% of the Average Annual Value calculation set out immediately above.
Pozo the Clown said:
Curt Schilling @gehrig38 · 37 minutes ago
Darkhorse? Yanks offering 25x8 with 4 yr opt out. Brian has ALWAYS been sneaky good at winning when no one knows he's in the game
More like: "Brian has ALWAYS been good at winning when he and he alone is willing (and has the bottomless coffers) to grossly overpay." I suppose one could also characterize one who brings an uzi to a knife fight as one who's "good at winning."
If Lester's market is really 8/$200, we should all be looking for Shields and Liriano jerseys in a few weeks.Minneapolis Millers said:If Lester's market is really 8/$200, that would clearly explain the interest in trading for Hamels.
My thoughts exactly. Why would he be privy to this info anyways?OCD SS said:Is that an actual offer or G38 just conjuring a potential doomsday scenario?
DrewDawg said:Because we heard the "Sox are willing to negotiate" hours after we heard the reports of $120 million, I think we sometimes operate like those are 2 distinct things that happened at different times.
Isn't it more likely it went something like this:
"This is what we were thinking---6 years/$120 million."
"You know what, that's not a bad start--we have some more teams to talk to, how about we get back with you in a few days and let you know what we thinking? But that's a nice start."
"Sure...you know, we think that's a fair offer and a significant increase, but get back in touch after you talk to a few other teams. We want you back in Boston."
So, as opposed to saying "Why would they even make a first offer and then say they'll negotiate???? That doesn't make sense" if you think about how it went in that room it makes perfect sense. Unless you think the Sox were going to make one offer and Lester was going to sign immediately. The Sox make a the big increase, Lester gives some positive feedback but says he has others to talk to, the Sox reiterate their interest, but clearly won't put a deadline on him. Lester leaving that meeting without a deadline means that Sox are willing to negotiate.
DrewDawg said:Because we heard the "Sox are willing to negotiate" hours after we heard the reports of $120 million, I think we sometimes operate like those are 2 distinct things that happened at different times.
Isn't it more likely it went something like this:
"This is what we were thinking---6 years/$120 million."
"You know what, that's not a bad start--we have some more teams to talk to, how about we get back with you in a few days and let you know what we thinking? But that's a nice start."
"Sure...you know, we think that's a fair offer and a significant increase, but get back in touch after you talk to a few other teams. We want you back in Boston."
So, as opposed to saying "Why would they even make a first offer and then say they'll negotiate???? That doesn't make sense" if you think about how it went in that room it makes perfect sense. Unless you think the Sox were going to make one offer and Lester was going to sign immediately. The Sox make a the big increase, Lester gives some positive feedback but says he has others to talk to, the Sox reiterate their interest, but clearly won't put a deadline on him. Lester leaving that meeting without a deadline means that Sox are willing to negotiate.
Precisely. There's no point in bidding against yourself at this stage.
This sounds a lot like someone trying to talk up the market to help a friend.Joe Nation said:
Curt Schilling @gehrig38 · 37 minutes ago
Darkhorse? Yanks offering 25x8 with 4 yr opt out. Brian has ALWAYS been sneaky good at winning when no one knows he's in the game