This will be Derek Jeter's final season
- Thread starter Corsi
- Start date
Jeter has always been overrated, but when it comes to all time great SS, he is probably in the top 5. You could even make the case that he is #2. Wagner is and will probably always be the best ever, but after him it gets fishy. Ripken had longevity but was never that dominant (kind of like Jeter) Banks only played half his career there, and after them you have Barry Larkin, Joe Cronin, Robin Yount etc. Bill James will tell you that Arky Vaughn was better than everyone but Wagner, but IDK how many people would agree with him.
You could also make the case that he wasn't better than ARod, Nomar and Tejada when they were all in their prime at the same time at peak value.Kliq said:
I'm probably one of the few Sox fans that actually almost likes Jeter.. but I do (almost). He wasn't the greatest short stop of all time, but man was he good. Sure, he wasn't the defensive wizard most liked to portray him as.. but in his day he was flashy and super fun to watch. He could also hit.
He seems to respect the game of baseball and busts his ass every time he's out there. He plays hard (pun intended) but he also always seemed to work hard. He may be a douche, but he was our douche to hate and that has to be worth something. Him being the lead cheerleader over in the visitors dugout on Opening Day 2005 is worth nearly as much as Mo's response when he got his ovation. He seemed to understand what that series meant, and what winning the World Series meant to Boston and its fans. He respected being beat, enjoyed being part of it, and was willing to cheer for those who rightfully won.
Also, he disliked Bitch Tits. Once again, that has to be worth something.
He was part of my childhood, part of my love of baseball (let's be real, half of our baseball love is hating the Yankees and Captain Intangibles). He was part of my routine when I was giving my friends who are Yankee fans a hard time. He was (and will forever be) connected to Nomar and Nomar was the love of New England for many years.
I may be in the minority but I will miss watching him play.
He seems to respect the game of baseball and busts his ass every time he's out there. He plays hard (pun intended) but he also always seemed to work hard. He may be a douche, but he was our douche to hate and that has to be worth something. Him being the lead cheerleader over in the visitors dugout on Opening Day 2005 is worth nearly as much as Mo's response when he got his ovation. He seemed to understand what that series meant, and what winning the World Series meant to Boston and its fans. He respected being beat, enjoyed being part of it, and was willing to cheer for those who rightfully won.
Also, he disliked Bitch Tits. Once again, that has to be worth something.
He was part of my childhood, part of my love of baseball (let's be real, half of our baseball love is hating the Yankees and Captain Intangibles). He was part of my routine when I was giving my friends who are Yankee fans a hard time. He was (and will forever be) connected to Nomar and Nomar was the love of New England for many years.
I may be in the minority but I will miss watching him play.
mabrowndog said:
I suspect he was holding off until the Yankees signed his replacement, knowing an announcement before this would drive up the price for them. Look for an announcement that the Yankees have signed or traded for a SS. Drews name comes to mind.
I was Ok with Riveras farewell tour although I thought it was a bit much. Everyone liked Mo. I never felt that warm feeling with Jeter, and I kind of root for the Yankees to be good to preserve the rivalry. I mean, I respect the guy but I don't want to see any love fests for him like with Rivera. However, these ceremonies sell a few extra tickets in most parks so I guess he will get the same send off.
The other possibility is that he had a set back in his workouts, or is just not progressing as fast and realizes his days as a SS are pretty much over, retirement or not, Better to announce first than wait until the fans and press are calling for you to retire..
Could be, Sampo. On a related note, Jeter announcing his intent to retire on Facebook to me is evidence of the resentment he still feels against the organization over the negotiations for his last big contract.Sampo Gida said:
terrynever said:
This is funny if true, he really earned a lot of that $17M deal last year.
Edit: This ended up being a 4/63 deal, which included one solid season, one very good season, one totally lost season, and the upcoming one. More than fair at the time, more than fair in retrospect.
No, I'm talking about the comments made by Randy Levine and/or Cashman telling Jeter he could go out on the market and try to find a better offer. I don't think Jeter ever forgave them for that.jon abbey said:
Jeter's issue was he thought the negotiations would not be leaked to the media. But they were and he was pissed about it.
I'm trying to pull up our thread from then, but I don't see it. I remember Ken Tremendous started it midseason 2010 (or maybe even earlier), in the hopes that Jeter would get some massive A-Rod type deal.
Again, I don't usually agree with Yankee management, but Close/Jeter were asking for some massive deal (I don't remember the specifics and couldn't find them with a bit of googling) and wouldn't really negotiate. NY wasn't left with much choice. If he is still pissed about that 3 1/2 years later, it's his issue but I don't think it's justified.
Again, I don't usually agree with Yankee management, but Close/Jeter were asking for some massive deal (I don't remember the specifics and couldn't find them with a bit of googling) and wouldn't really negotiate. NY wasn't left with much choice. If he is still pissed about that 3 1/2 years later, it's his issue but I don't think it's justified.
I imagine some of the blame goes on Jeter for thinking the owners would give him the kind of crazy deal Alex got after his opt-out in 2007. Obviously, Jeter didn't have the kind of leverage 54 homers provided his buddy. He was probably asking for $22M per year for 4 years, if I recall the general numbers correctly. And that wasn't going to happen at his age. So you're right that he was asking for too much. But Jeter made it personal after the quote about going out on the market became public. I don't think he ever forgot it. And that's why we were treated to a Facebook announcement when he could have waited one week and done this at Steinbrenner Field. So I find that interesting, and unsurprising, because within a few years, Jeter will be owning part of either Tampa or Miami and will be competing against the Yankees.jon abbey said:
You mean like this? His last series was going to be at Fenway too.8slim said:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=robinbr01&t=b&year=1977
terrynever said:
I never thought of that. Announcing on Facebook does seem strange. But if the Yankees were signing someone and could not wait much longer, they would have told Jeter first, and Jeter probably was concerned it would look like he was being pushed out, so he may have wanted to get out the retirement news first. He could also be unhappy with the signing. Pure speculation of course. Should know more in a week or so.
twibnotes said:
Hahaha, yes.
This seems like the place to note that in addition to his well-known defensive issues, Jeter rocked a whopping .348 OPS in 48 ABs against RHP last year. Obviously that's a ridiculously low SSS, but he's been terrible against RHP since 2010, under a .700 OPS combined since then in around 1500 PAs (I don't know how to combine splits over multiple seasons on BR).
bankshot1 said:
Thank you! I see some otherwise sensible people there talking about 5/125, that would have gone through 2015. He has piled up a combined 4.3 fWAR in the first three years of the deal, he was quite nicely financially rewarded on his previous deal (10/189, fully deserved), and he and Close weren't backing down any other way (or at least so it seemed). Again, more than generous, and if he is still mad, he should get over it IMO.
You will never convince me that he wasn't using PEDs in the late 90's and early 2000's along with every other top player at the shortstop position during that era.
SemperFidelisSox said:
Why qualify it for SS or top players. I think most players in this period at least tried one PED or another. The ones who did not had a fear of needles or fear of the side effects. The type of PED's and usage may have differed depending on position the players objective. Some players just wanted to help with recovery and durability so did not bulk up, while those looking to boost power got bigger. We kind of give the smaller guys who did not hit for power a pass, and am not sure this is fair,
But there is no evidence Jeter used, so either he is smarter than most, or he was clean.
I think you're looking far too into what Semp was saying.Sampo Gida said:
I read that more as a jab at Nomar and A-Rod. I don't think he was trying to imply SS used more or less than anyone else.
reggiecleveland said:
If the Yankees are smart enough to sign Drew they might be a better team if he is.
Last of the True Yankees. End of an era for quality nicknames and mocking. Matsui, Posada, Williams, Rivera, Pettttttitttttte, et al all had some quality nicknames, but there is only one Captain Intangibles.
Respect.
Respect.
Over under on games played this season by Cap'n Jetes should be around 40. I'll take the under and as Sampo Gida suggested, I suspect he is already feeling a nagging injury.
His gift from the Sox should be a dust buster as opposed to a Hoover.
His gift from the Sox should be a dust buster as opposed to a Hoover.
The third best shortstop and the second-best singles hitter of his generation. . . and he's going to get the most over-the-top farewell tour in baseball history.
I'm waiting for the press release stating Jeter will not accept any tangible gifts on his farewell tour...
What are the other MFY nicknames?:
Fruitbat = Mariano
Shemp = Matsui
Cap'n Intangibles = Jeter
Toilet = Yankee Stadium
MFY = Yankees
SIAS = Steinbrenner
Others?
Fruitbat = Mariano
Shemp = Matsui
Cap'n Intangibles = Jeter
Toilet = Yankee Stadium
MFY = Yankees
SIAS = Steinbrenner
Others?
From BP this morning:
That’s just as it should be. Jeter is the heir to the legacy of DiMaggio and Mantle, the latest link in an unbroken chain that connects the team of today to the plaques in Monument Park. And for the first 19 years of his storied career, he was worthy of the weight of history that was placed upon him.
Yesterday, he let that legacy down.
Sure, some of what DiMaggio and Jeter said sounded the same. But notice what they did differently.
DiMaggio needed only 84 words to cap off his Hall of Fame career. It took him 35 seconds to say them.
Jeter’s statement went on for 14 paragraphs. He recalled career highlights. He reminisced about bus rides. He thanked his friends and family. If he’d given this speech at the Golden Globes, they would have played the music and cut to commercial long before he finally got around to mentioning that it might be nice to win another World Series—after 729 words.
This was an overshare that would have made the famously private Yankee Clipper cringe. How appropriate, then, that Jeter delivered it not in front of a microphone, as DiMaggio did, but on Facebook, the ultimate look-at-me medium.
But it’s not the message or the medium that disappoints me the most. It’s the timing.
Jeter chose to tell us that he’s calling it quits before his last spring training started. DiMaggio made his announcement on December 11, 1951—two months afterhis final game. That was nothing. Mantle made his in March.
That’s right, kids. True Yankees used to walk away over the winter rather than make themselves a season-long story.
This way, of course, the Yankees get what they want: a retirement tour. That’s one way to sell tickets when you barely have a second baseman. And Jeter gets to spend his final season taking bows and getting gifts wherever he goes.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22810
Sound familiar? It’s almost as if the Captain cribbed his farewell from a previous pinstriped icon, just as he mirrored DiMaggio’s graceful movements, his high average, and his affection for starlets.
That’s just as it should be. Jeter is the heir to the legacy of DiMaggio and Mantle, the latest link in an unbroken chain that connects the team of today to the plaques in Monument Park. And for the first 19 years of his storied career, he was worthy of the weight of history that was placed upon him.
Yesterday, he let that legacy down.
Sure, some of what DiMaggio and Jeter said sounded the same. But notice what they did differently.
DiMaggio needed only 84 words to cap off his Hall of Fame career. It took him 35 seconds to say them.
Jeter’s statement went on for 14 paragraphs. He recalled career highlights. He reminisced about bus rides. He thanked his friends and family. If he’d given this speech at the Golden Globes, they would have played the music and cut to commercial long before he finally got around to mentioning that it might be nice to win another World Series—after 729 words.
This was an overshare that would have made the famously private Yankee Clipper cringe. How appropriate, then, that Jeter delivered it not in front of a microphone, as DiMaggio did, but on Facebook, the ultimate look-at-me medium.
But it’s not the message or the medium that disappoints me the most. It’s the timing.
Jeter chose to tell us that he’s calling it quits before his last spring training started. DiMaggio made his announcement on December 11, 1951—two months afterhis final game. That was nothing. Mantle made his in March.
That’s right, kids. True Yankees used to walk away over the winter rather than make themselves a season-long story.
This way, of course, the Yankees get what they want: a retirement tour. That’s one way to sell tickets when you barely have a second baseman. And Jeter gets to spend his final season taking bows and getting gifts wherever he goes.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22810
Current Yankees players already starting with the gifts....
https://twitter.com/search?q=retirement%20jeter&src=typd
Could not seem to isolate the Happy Retirement pic, but it is there.....
https://twitter.com/search?q=retirement%20jeter&src=typd
Could not seem to isolate the Happy Retirement pic, but it is there.....
Also, they sell concessions. A lot of the September tickets would sell (though the announcement obviously bumps that up too), but if they are out of the race a lot of those people wouldn't show up. This gets butts in seats and it wouldn't shock me if announcing now was the FO's idea rather than Jeter's.
If the Yankees sign Stephen Drew, wouldn't they be better off with Jeter at third base? Give him six weeks of spring training to make the transition. Then they eliminate a fielding weakness at SS plus they have a platoon guy at third base in Kelly Johnson to take some of the load off Jeter. They get better at two infield positions.
This isn't 10 years ago when Jeter was still in his prime. He's not a solid shortstop anymore, hasn't been for some time. This time, take one for the team, Jeter, and move to third base.
This isn't 10 years ago when Jeter was still in his prime. He's not a solid shortstop anymore, hasn't been for some time. This time, take one for the team, Jeter, and move to third base.
terrynever said:
He's never moved off the position when it seemed as though it would have been better for the team (Arod, declining range). Going out as a True Yankee Shortstop™ in 2014 better fits the org's plans/narrative for this farewell tour. He'd probably be the emergency catcher before he moves to third.
If management had any balls, they would just order him over to third base. Cashman and Girardi. How can it not make perfect sense?glennhoffmania said:
One last thing about Jeter. When future Hall of Famers retire, you try to look past their final few seasons and remember them for when they were young and in their prime. Jeter didn't age well, especially in the field. But he was a joy to watch for Yankee fans prior to 2003, when he got the shoulder injury in the Opening Day collision with Ken Huckaby.
I don't like to remember Mantle and Berra for their final seasons. Same goes for Jeter. And Jim Rice, another of my favorites.
Horseface will still be there as will Slappy assuming they let him back into the bidet after his suspension.Bleedred said:
Dumbo and Peanuthead are long gone though.