#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[8slim]

Right, but the more people who watch the Super Bowl the more people the NFL can capture, which will increase regular season ratings, as well as ticket and merchandise sales.

But not really. The Super Bowl is an event largely apart from the rest of the NFL season. It's a social event, a quasi-national holiday, and a sizeable chunk of people who will watch part of the game on Sunday will never, or rarely, tune in to a regular season game.

In terms of ticket sales, most NFL stadiums are sold out every week. Teams are increasing revenue via higher prices, PSLs, etc., but there is relatively little margin for increases in the total amount of tickets sold.

I'm just arguing that the notion that the NFL is purposefully pushing this story as a means to drum up interest in the NFL is illogical on several fronts.

You'd think that would resonate in a thread where people are referencing Occam's razor every 10th post and screaming about how the media is concocting ludicrous scenarios instead of focusing on logical explanations and science.

 

[OnWisc]

Maybe league Ops hatched some crappy plan to go after the Pats, and the Commish reluctantly let it go forward since it was the Pats and he didn't want to be accused of protecting Kraft & Co.

Then he's still a horrible commissioner. The final press release on this matter could read "At the insistence of Jim Irsay, Steve Bisciotti and Woody Johnson we agreed to initiate an investigation...." and he still shouldn't be absolved of anything. It's his job to protect the integrity of the game, whether by preventing owners from instigating nonsense like this, or by not blindly going after some unprovable allegation that's of no material consequence anyway during Super Bowl week, and hanging one of the participants out to dry in the process.

His job is to basically keep what is happening right now from happening. And he fucking sucks at it.

 

[simplyeric]

 
Phone records?  Texts?  You look at lots of shit when you're doing an investigation.

Not to put words in his mouth but isn't he referencing all that with 'phones checked, etc'. ? He's refering back to the list of stuff the Patriots supplied, which includes all of that stuff.

 

[accidentalsuccess]

 
a recently filled air compressor could easily have 90F air in it or higher.  Go run one and touch it...carefully.

Just to expand on my earlier observation, maybe the NFL and NDT should really hang out at the locker room or garage more often...air compressor reservoirs get pretty hot when they are filling (because the energy used to compress the air has to go somewhere...).  Who knows whether ANY TEAM uses this fact advantageously or not...
 
checking in with with bridgestone rather than wilson:
 
'Using a gas station air compressor means your tires might be “hot.”  If it is necessary to adjust inflation pressure when tires are “hot”, set their pressure to 4 psi (14 kPa) above the recommended cold inflation pressure. Recheck the inflation pressure when the tires are cold.'
 
http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/how-to-check-tire-pressure
 
or asked a scuba diver....pressures there are in the tank, not the compressor reservoir, though.  

 

[nattysez]

I know we're frustrated by the reporting, but let's be realistic -- Schefter and Glazer aren't just making things up.  The fact that Glazer seemed surprised that the "separate room" from his report was a bathroom suggests that they are just running whatever they get from a single reliable source without doing any further digging.  Bad journalism, yes, but not "making things up."

 

[E5 Yaz]

Kornheiser and Wilbon today, mocking the length of this story and how the investigation and Kraft's speech put Goodell on the spot:
 
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12239068

 

[Koufax]

First, the Bridgestone language is addressing filling automobile tires that have already warmed up because the car has been on the road.  Second, it seems unlikely that the Pats or the refs  are using a compressor rather than a hand pump on an already-inflated football.  (I doubt that the Pats empty the balls to scuff them up).    

 

[Bone Chips]

 
Eh, I could see them simply reiterating that because there have been no findings released by Wells. It's a throwaway line.

I watched it, and that was the exact same thought I had. Pure filler, nothing new.

 

[twothousandone]

First, the Bridgestone language is addressing filling automobile tires that have already warmed up because the car has been on the road.  Second, it seems unlikely that the Pats or the refs  are using a compressor rather than a hand pump on an already-inflated football.  (I doubt that the Pats empty the balls to scuff them up).    

why do you say that? I'm genuinely curious. Wouldn't a pro team that deals with inflatables (basketball, soccer, football) want to have a compressor handy?  Imagine how many pins they'd break if they pumped everything by hand?
 
Of course, it's another question to be answered in this investigation of SOP and league rules.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Then he's still a horrible commissioner. The final press release on this matter could read "At the insistence of Jim Irsay, Steve Bisciotti and Woody Johnson we agreed to initiate an investigation...." and he still shouldn't be absolved of anything. It's his job to protect the integrity of the game, whether by preventing owners from instigating nonsense like this, or by not blindly going after some unprovable allegation that's of no material consequence anyway during Super Bowl week, and hanging one of the participants out to dry in the process.

His job is to basically keep what is happening right now from happening. And he fucking sucks at it.

 
Yes, I am certainly no defender of the Commish, just trying to read the tea leaves.
 
 
 

First, the Bridgestone language is addressing filling automobile tires that have already warmed up because the car has been on the road.  Second, it seems unlikely that the Pats or the refs  are using a compressor rather than a hand pump on an already-inflated football.  (I doubt that the Pats empty the balls to scuff them up).    
 

 
FWIW, they used a compressor in the video for Peter King's "Game 150" story.

 

[8slim]

I know we're frustrated by the reporting, but let's be realistic -- Schefter and Glazer aren't just making things up.  The fact that Glazer seemed surprised that the "separate room" from his report was a bathroom suggests that they are just running whatever they get from a single reliable source without doing any further digging.  Bad journalism, yes, but not "making things up."

Stories like this highlight how these guys are not investigative journalists in any classic sense. They're guys who cultivate sources and act as mouthpieces for those sources.

That's great when we're talking about free agent signings, coach firings or draft selections. But when it comes to anything vaguely resembling news gathering for "serious" stories their weaknesses are readily apparent.

The Ray Rice situation illustrated this. It took real journalists like Don Van Natta to expose things, while stooges like Peter King were just passing along notes from their biased sources.

 

[accidentalsuccess]

First, the Bridgestone language is addressing filling automobile tires that have already warmed up because the car has been on the road.  Second, it seems unlikely that the Pats or the refs  are using a compressor rather than a hand pump on an already-inflated football.  (I doubt that the Pats empty the balls to scuff them up).    

That happens, too (warm from driving).
 
I never played football in the NFL but even my rec soccer league uses a small compressor to pump up the bag of balls.
 
Regardless, I think most rational people think that the refs never checked and the balls were low to start with.

 

[OnWisc]

Stories like this highlight how these guys are not investigative journalists in any classic sense. They're guys who cultivate sources and act as mouthpieces for those sources.

That's great when we're talking about free agent signings, coach firings or draft selections. But when it comes to anything vaguely resembling news gathering for "serious" stories their weaknesses are readily apparent.

The Ray Rice situation illustrated this. It took real journalists like Don Van Natta to expose things, while stooges like Peter King were just passing along notes from their biased sources.

Well said. Articulates a key point.

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

Stories like this highlight how these guys are not investigative journalists in any classic sense. They're guys who cultivate sources and act as mouthpieces for those sources.

That's great when we're talking about free agent signings, coach firings or draft selections. But when it comes to anything vaguely resembling news gathering for "serious" stories their weaknesses are readily apparent.

The Ray Rice situation illustrated this. It took real journalists like Don Van Natta to expose things, while stooges like Peter King were just passing along notes from their biased sources.

There may also be a conflict of interest - if a sports reporter relies on a source for free agent signings, the reporter probably does not want to upset the source by not carrying their water on this story.

 

[TomTerrific]

Schefter on Sportscenter (I'm in the hotel gym, give a guy a break) reporting that league is entrenched in its belief that the NEP deflated 11 of 12 balls. Nothing more specific; no mention of any evidence.

 

Eh, I could see them simply reiterating that because there have been no findings released by Wells. It's a throwaway line.

 
My interpretation is that this is one of a series of "no new information" leaks that we can expect to appear now that the investigation has been taken over by Wells and the original investigators have presumably been cut out.
 
And what else would you expect, especially if Wells' investigation comes up with material that makes it seem like this was all just a big waste of time? In which case they (the original investigators) are likely screwed. So why not leak away now to your benefit? What is there to lose?  And maybe you'll be able to derail/delay things long enough that something else will emerge.

 

[Peak Oil Can Boyd]

Sigh.

 

Although Patriots owner Robert Kraft has insisted on “hard facts as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to drive the conclusion of this investigation,” circumstantial evidence could be sufficient to overcome any legal standard — especially a low one like “preponderance of the evidence.”
Depending on the full extent of the evidence obtained during the ongoing investigation, that could be bad news for the Patriots.

 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/low-standard-of-proof-applies-to-deflategate/

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Wait, so he's admitting they need proof?
 
Progress!

 

[DJnVa]

Whatever. If what they have now is all they have then this is going to amount to nothing. The guy didn't disappear with the balls for 10 minutes into a broom closet. It was 90 seconds into a bathroom.
 
The NFL will not punish NE if there's nothing else. 

 

[Harry Hooper]

Wait, so he's admitting they need proof?
 
Progress!

 
More progress, one of the anti-Pats commenters wrote:
 

NEED NO EVIDENCE
Patriots were caught with 11 deflated balls..
That’s against the rules!
Second offense of cheating/breaking the rules!
 

 
 
At least it's down to one prior offense.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Sigh.
 
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/low-standard-of-proof-applies-to-deflategate/

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Arthur Conan Doyle

 

[E5 Yaz]

Whatever. If what they have now is all they have then this is going to amount to nothing. The guy didn't disappear with the balls for 10 minutes into a broom closet. It was 90 seconds into a bathroom.
 
The NFL will not punish NE if there's nothing else. 

 
Nah, I disagree. They'll rule that "the organization" was responsible for what happened, even if they can't pinpoint what it was that happened.

 

[Marciano490]

But not really. The Super Bowl is an event largely apart from the rest of the NFL season. It's a social event, a quasi-national holiday, and a sizeable chunk of people who will watch part of the game on Sunday will never, or rarely, tune in to a regular season game.

In terms of ticket sales, most NFL stadiums are sold out every week. Teams are increasing revenue via higher prices, PSLs, etc., but there is relatively little margin for increases in the total amount of tickets sold.

I'm just arguing that the notion that the NFL is purposefully pushing this story as a means to drum up interest in the NFL is illogical on several fronts.

You'd think that would resonate in a thread where people are referencing Occam's razor every 10th post and screaming about how the media is concocting ludicrous scenarios instead of focusing on logical explanations and science.

I wholly agree the conspiracy theory is absurd, but I disagree that the NFL or any show or product is ever disserved by increased publicity.

 

[PeaceSignMoose]

Whatever. If what they have now is all they have then this is going to amount to nothing. The guy didn't disappear with the balls for 10 minutes into a broom closet. It was 90 seconds into a bathroom.
 
The NFL will not punish NE if there's nothing else. 

 
 
Are you sure?  Imagine the explosion if Goodell fines Kraft $500,000 for "Conduct Detrimental to the League" because of his public "questioning" and saying they MIGHT owe an apology?

 

[dcmissle]

Wait, so he's admitting they need proof?
 
Progress!

Just a few years ago Florio was a West Virginia lawyer who hatched the undeniably brilliant concept of this news aggregation service, which almost certainly he sold to NBC for a bundle and continued employment. Occasionally, he feels the need to remind us he was a practicing lawyer.

 

[njnesportsfan]

Just remember, NEP cannot sue the league on the verdict. But fans can. Please call 1-800-FUCK-NFL.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Nah, I disagree. They'll rule that "the organization" was responsible for what happened, even if they can't pinpoint what it was that happened.

 
Fair enough, if they absolve the officials, we may get the $25,000 fine as a face saving measure, but Kraft put Goodell on fucking blast yesterday. The kid going to take a piss for 90 seconds isn't going to cost a draft pick or any suspensions.

 

[DJnVa]

 
 
Are you sure?  Imagine the explosion if Goodell fines Kraft $500,000 for "Conduct Detrimental to the League" because of his public "questioning" and saying they MIGHT owe an apology?

 
No way. None.

 

[JimBoSox9]

 
Nah, I disagree. They'll rule that "the organization" was responsible for what happened, even if they can't pinpoint what it was that happened.

 
They can't pinpoint if something happened with any certainty, let alone what it was that happened.  That's a tripod missing two legs, I can't see even Sheriff Roger being that dumb knowing Kraft is ready for a fight.

 

[wiffleballhero]

If this is how the league is going to decide things, Kraft should simply refuse to pay and launch a string of similiarly silly allegations against other teams. 

 

[Rosey Ruzicka]

I understand how the media can ignore the pressure drop due to temperature, there is no way the league with a multi-million dollar investigation can, right? If the PSI is expected to be 10.7ish on the field due to temperature drop how can they ignore that fact?  That is the point..they can pinpoint the cause..and are willfully ignoring it.

 

[EricFeczko]

There may also be a conflict of interest - if a sports reporter relies on a source for free agent signings, the reporter probably does not want to upset the source by not carrying their water on this story.

I don't follow this. So if a source says something the reporter has to report it as fact?  I'm not a reporter, but if a source (whom I've used before) demands that I print something, then I explain to said source that clearly such a demand means I should reveal who you are and what you've told me; including all the things you got wrong.
 
Glazer is a former NY post reporter, so I'm already skeptical of him. The reports he's had throughout the past week have ranged from inaccurate to specious. I'll admit that he's probably more incompetent than anything else.
 
Florio has fabricated reports in the past, including one that claimed that terry bradshaw died in an accident, I find it reasonable to doubt that he even has sources.

 

[Leather]

Given the pressure/temp rebuttal, I strongly disagree that the NFL has proven anything by a preponderance of the evidence.

They've made a prima facie case. That's it.

But, you know, why not add legal terminology to the list of shit the sports media will sling around incorrectly on this story to sound like real journalists.

 

[Corsi]

Given the pressure/temp rebuttal, I strongly disagree that the NFL has proven anything by a preponderance of the evidence.

They've made a prima facie case. That's it.

But, you know, why not add legal terminology to the list of shit the sports media will sling around incorrectly on this story to sound like real journalists.

 
What's amazing is that Mike Florio was once a lawyer.

 

[Hoya81]

If the refs re-inflated the balls and didn't keep a log, what evidence is there that they were not up to spec?

 

[geoduck no quahog]

We have to always remember that there are literally no facts involved in this fiasco.
 
The only release of vetted information was the league's press release, which is full of fudge.
 
The same way we shouldn't be believing daily leaks or re-tested pressures for either team (which have never been revealed with a methodology explained and are apparently being fed to the masses as a campaign to discredit the Pats) - is the same reason we shouldn't be getting too jazzed by favorable leaks. Too many people losing sight of the few known facts (aren't the 11 balls a function of 1 ball being handed to the crowd?)
 
The other fact is science, which doesn't fuck around. The only debatable aspect is what was done to the footballs prior to the game, when it was done, and how that impacted the initial readings.
 
Fuck this shit. 

 

[Joshv02]

If the refs re-inflated the balls and didn't keep a log, what evidence is there that they were not up to spec?

The evidence would be them saying it happened that way, which, besides for the timing, is the same as a log.

 

[riboflav]

If the refs re-inflated the balls and didn't keep a log, what evidence is there that they were not up to spec?

 
Their testimony.

 

[theapportioner]

Given the pressure/temp rebuttal, I strongly disagree that the NFL has proven anything by a preponderance of the evidence.

They've made a prima facie case. That's it.

But, you know, why not add legal terminology to the list of shit the sports media will sling around incorrectly on this story to sound like real journalists.

 
"Given that the ideal gas "laws" are still apparently an area of unsettled knowledge, we must conclude that the New England Patriots do not have any factual evidence to support their case. The verdict is in. Guilty!!"

 

[ifmanis5]

I wholly agree the conspiracy theory is absurd, but I disagree that the NFL or any show or product is ever disserved by increased publicity.

Michael Richards, OJ Simpson and New Coke all say hi.

 

[staz]

I would not decline adult relations with Ms. Stark, should the opportunity present itself.

 

[mauidano]

At the end of the day, even if and when NE is absolved of any wrongdoing, there will always be a faction that believes they did something/anything wrong (i.e. The Black List).  You will not be able to change their minds regardless. No sense in trying to do so either.  They will fight you to the death literally based on nothing.
 
NO ONE has produced or even leaked anything of damning substantiated fact. Rumors, speculation and unfounded accusation is all that there is. It boggles my mind that there are so many media/public that have gotten so emotionally angry about nothing.

 

[AardsmaToZupcic]

Philly poll on if it is OK to bend the rules to win a Super Bowl since apparently BB did it.
 
http://goo.gl/vdlkVl  
 
Also after the Ray Rice thing am I the only one waiting for TMZ to release some actual facts about this deflategate sham?

 

[54thMA]

Just remember, NEP cannot sue the league on the verdict. But fans can. Please call 1-800-FUCK-NFL.

 
You might want to check that number; I dialed it and Mark Davis answered.
 

 

[SumnerH]

Michael Richards, OJ Simpson and New Coke all say hi.

 
New Coke shouldn't be in that company.  Intentionally or not, that whole debacle wound up as case study #1 in "almost no publicity is bad publicity".

 

[snowmanny]

So where is the ball squish?
 

 

 

 

 

 

[snowmanny]

And seriously that's like as strong a person as there is squeezing that thing.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

At the end of the day, even if and when NE is absolved of any wrongdoing, there will always be a faction that believes they did something/anything wrong (i.e. The Black List).  You will not be able to change their minds regardless. No sense in trying to do so either.  They will fight you to the death literally based on nothing.
 
NO ONE has produced or even leaked anything of damning substantiated fact. Rumors, speculation and unfounded accusation is all that there is. It boggles my mind that there are so many media/public that have gotten so emotionally angry about nothing.

Despite my best intentions for my peace of mind, I've followed this thread all the way through reading all of it. Good news is I've ignored all but a few minutes of the Fat Fuck and I have not turned on ESPN once. No different for me than normal but I've been tempted to listen to the idiots we've been talking about for 222 pages.

Your line "they will fight you to the death literally based on nothing" is as spot on as possible.

A total emotional breakdown by some people that have previously shown to range from moderately intelligent and decent to very reputable and learned.

Yet this issue with Belichick and the evil Patriots has made them almost literally lose their minds

 

[SamK]

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Arthur Conan Doyle

Hello, Mr. Occam. Shave today? Just tilt your chin up while I strop this razor. You won't feel a thing.

I can't believe that I am spending Super Bowl week caught up by this teen queen drama. I hate that this thread has to exist, and hate the idea that I could be going through this fucking horseshit without it.

I hope we come out Sunday in a 1960's wishbone and bloody West coast Pete. Time for an old school beat down.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Experiment 1: rubbing a ball casually (with some purpose but not vigorously) with a dog brush in a 68 degree environment resulted in an increase of between .2 and .3 psi, when starting on 12. It took between 4 and 10 minutes to go back down.

Experiment 2: try to tell the difference between a ball at 12 and 11: barely perceptible. From 12 to 10, you can tell by squeezing at the points but not really in the middle.

Edit: sorry, for experiment 1 I rubbed for two minutes