Thanks. That is fantastic and brought a much needed smile to my face. And to top it off, he was wrong about the players he suggested the Patriots should have taken as well. David Terrell did not amount to much, Koren Robinson made one Pro Bowl in his eight year career for his special teams play and Kenyatta Walker played six seasons without any Pro Bowl or All Pro accolades. Borges gets a D- for that analysis.
D- way too generous. Clearly an F.Thanks. That is fantastic and brought a much needed smile to my face. And to top it off, he was wrong about the players he suggested the Patriots should have taken as well. David Terrell did not amount to much, Koren Robinson made one Pro Bowl in his eight year career for his special teams play and Kenyatta Walker played six seasons without any Pro Bowl or All Pro accolades. Borges gets a D- for that analysis.
Think it all depends on how you define success. Could go in so many directions and these type of articles never really clearly define the criteria, as you noted.I think the same argument applies to Edelman.
To me, a great draft pick is when you take someone unexpected or ahead of where the pundits say, and take a risk, and it pans out. Edelman and Brady weren't risky picks.
Guys like Gronk, Mankins, and McCourty were great picks. When they drafted Mankins the reaction was 99% "who???". He is probably their 2nd or 3rd best OL all time behind Hannah and maybe Armstrong.
Edit: and when they drafted McCourty BB was blasted for calling him a "four down player", with the insinuation that they drafted a special teams player in the first round
Double edit: the McCourty pick was extra brilliant due to the trades. First the Pats traded from 22 to 24 and picked up 113 - which they used to draft Hernandez. Then they traded down again from 24 to 27 and drafted DMC. They also included 119 in that trade and picked up 90. Unfortunately 90 turned into Taylor Price but it was still a brilliant set of moves / value.
Triple edit: I think I would have to include Seymour on my list of best draft picks ever. No one was happy about that pick in real time.
You hate to fail anyone for showing up for class tho.D- way too generous. Clearly an F.
What's the limit for how many times a team can pass on someone before it's still a good pick? Otherwise you're tying yourself into first round picks aren't you?Honestly I would also argue with Brady as the best pick in Patriots history. They passed on him how many times? It was mostly lucky.
No it's a fair question. It's not simply about passing up a player X amount of times. It is also about maybe picking a guy ahead of where he "should" have been picked. Like with Manning, I give the Colts credit for taking him over Leaf, but he still should have gone 1 or 2. Brady was picked in the range of where he was expected to be picked, it seems. I think there has to be some element of risk or surprise or whatever you want to call it to call it a great pick. By definition I think it has to be a pick that very few other teams would have made. Something that wasn't obvious. It's why I mentioned guys like McCourty, Mankins, Seymour, and Gronk. There was something unique about their selections.What's the limit for how many times a team can pass on someone before it's still a good pick? Otherwise you're tying yourself into first round picks aren't you?
There's ALWAYS luck, but there is credit to be given for actually pulling the trigger. This isn't the MLB draft where someone drafted Piazza because he was related to someone and it worked out.
(if that sounds snarky I do not intend it to, just asking your thoughts)
I think there's something to be said for seeing his value and pulling the trigger even though they had just signed their franchise QB to a megadeal and had 3 QB on the roster already. They had absolutely no need to take a QB and did it anyways because they saw some value there.What's the limit for how many times a team can pass on someone before it's still a good pick? Otherwise you're tying yourself into first round picks aren't you?
There's ALWAYS luck, but there is credit to be given for actually pulling the trigger. This isn't the MLB draft where someone drafted Piazza because he was related to someone and it worked out.
(if that sounds snarky I do not intend it to, just asking your thoughts)
And if you have Brady valued higher, but rightly read the room, so to speak, and gamble that you can get him later, while adding other pieces you want, then that is good drafting. Yes a little luck, but of course the Pats got lucky that Gronk wasn't taken sooner too.What's the limit for how many times a team can pass on someone before it's still a good pick? Otherwise you're tying yourself into first round picks aren't you?
There's ALWAYS luck, but there is credit to be given for actually pulling the trigger. This isn't the MLB draft where someone drafted Piazza because he was related to someone and it worked out.
(if that sounds snarky I do not intend it to, just asking your thoughts)
Exactly. Just because there was no pressure on them for that pick and they were lucky someone else didn't pick him earlier doesn't negate the fact that they actually drafted the best player of all time with the 199th pick. He obviously turned out better than they could have hoped, but they still saw something in him and made the pick when no one else did. It's a results based world, and by the simplest of metrics (value received for the pick) it's by far the greatest selection of all time.What's the limit for how many times a team can pass on someone before it's still a good pick? Otherwise you're tying yourself into first round picks aren't you?
There's ALWAYS luck, but there is credit to be given for actually pulling the trigger. This isn't the MLB draft where someone drafted Piazza because he was related to someone and it worked out.
(if that sounds snarky I do not intend it to, just asking your thoughts)
I agree with this sentiment but you could argue how the NFL landscape would have changed dramatically had they picked Leaf. Although, Leaf himself may have driven them away from picking him.It's also stupid to do that list and then pick someone who was drafted #1 overall as the best pick in franchise history, something that takes zero research to figure out. Is the whole list just the best player in franchise history for each team?
WTF? They were literally the only team that had any interest in Brady. They saw what 30 other teams did not. Then they kept FOUR QBs on the roster in 2000 in order to protect him from possibly being poached, i.e. they knew that he had potential almost immediately. In what way could that NOT be shrewd or prescient talent evaluation?Agree with this. There is no way having a 6th round pick turn out to be the best player in the history of the league can be attributed to shrewd/prescient talent evaluation. The credit they do get is for the high level of coaching and development Brady received in his formative years, and for having the cojones to stay with him when the high-dollar, franchise QB was ready to return during the '01 season. Not many coaches would have done that, and BB was not operating from the position of accrued benefit of the doubt /leverage that he has now.
Hold on there, buddy. Bill Polian would like a word.WTF? They were literally the only team that had any interest in Brady. They saw what 30 other teams did not.
He always was sort of a cheater. #justbuyapark
It’s an NFL rules violation to meet with team staff before the league year begins..https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-rumors-teams-expect-bucs-183314001.html
I can’t tell if this article is serious or not, but it’d be hilarious if teams actually press for Brady/TB to be punished for his little act of trespass.
Maybe he was the villain all along?
Well ... it's an NFL rules violation to GET CAUGHT meeting with team staffIt’s an NFL rules violation to meet with team staff before the league year begins..
I was at the draft party that day and spent a long time chatting with Ron Hobson, since he was impressed my cousin was rocking a I humbled the humble one shirt at the draft. Patriot Ledger days.Thanks. That is fantastic and brought a much needed smile to my face. And to top it off, he was wrong about the players he suggested the Patriots should have taken as well. David Terrell did not amount to much, Koren Robinson made one Pro Bowl in his eight year career for his special teams play and Kenyatta Walker played six seasons without any Pro Bowl or All Pro accolades. Borges gets a D- for that analysis.
Aka the Conrad Dobler defense, "Sure, I tried to trip him, but attempted tripping isn't illegal."Wel he didn’t meet with Leftwich, right? He may have TRIED to meet with him but ended up going to the wrong house. Haha
Brady’s completion percentage is off to an inauspicious start with the Bucs.Wel he didn’t meet with Leftwich, right? He may have TRIED to meet with him but ended up going to the wrong house. Haha
It's technically not allowed until OTA's. Normally, OTA's would be starting around this time. This season there are no OTA's, but they may allow optional coach/player meetings in their absence, social distancing notwithstanding.It’s an NFL rules violation to meet with team staff before the league year begins..
I would assume, if teams are actually complaining, that they didn't allow that.It's technically not allowed until OTA's. Normally, OTA's would be starting around this time. This season there are no OTA's, but they may allow optional coach/player meetings in their absence, social distancing notwithstanding.
Great story. He looked pretty surprised a few years later when he and his father were doused with ice water at the end of Super Bowl 39.I was at the draft party that day and spent a long time chatting with Ron Hobson, since he was impressed my cousin was rocking a I humbled the humble one shirt at the draft. Patriot Ledger days.
Anyway, BB came out to talk with folks at the draft party (it was at the race track) and he announced the Seymour pick and about 20% of the place booed loudly. BB was clearly startled then pressed on. People really wanted Terrell from what I remember. Only time I ever saw BB surprised
Yeah, he’s so much better at this than TB12.
They were all pretty funny. It was definitely worth a watch.
TB knows punching down is a bad look.Yeah, he’s so much better at this than TB12.
I probably don't like Peyton the person but the guy is legitimately funny.
Peyton is funny, but I still get a Shooter McGavin vibe from him.I probably don't like Peyton the person but the guy is legitimately funny.
Does that make Brady Happy Gilmore ?Peyton is funny, but I still get a Shooter McGavin vibe from him.
Chubbs Peterson = Dick Rehbein?Does that make Brady Happy Gilmore ?
He wins the big one in an unconventional manner. Beats the more traditionally talented guy. Unorthodox coach. Loves his mom. Attempted another sport that didn't work out. Very attractive significant other.
Uncanny parallels.
I'm guessing that and deflated balls are out of bounds, even if it's not in ink.Would have really loved it if Tom had fired back at Peyton "If you hurt yourself, I guess your wife will order herself some more HGH."
I think Peyton was the all-time best sports SNL host, ahead of Barkley.Peyton is funny, but I still get a Shooter McGavin vibe from him.
It’s all in the hips!Chubbs Peterson = Dick Rehbein?
Too soon?
His ‘if you’re handsome it isnt sexual harassment’ skit is a good one, but in general Peyton has done way better in these comedy bits. As much as it pains me to admit it.I think Peyton was the all-time best sports SNL host, ahead of Barkley.
And Brady, bless his heart, probably was in the bottom 2 or 3.
Well, it’s not like they could’ve given the sexual harassment skit to Peyton.It’s all in the hips!
His ‘if you’re handsome it isnt sexual harassment’ skit is a good one, but in general Peyton has done way better in these comedy bits. As much as it pains me to admit it.
But hey good thing comedy doesn’t win SB.
Cut that meat!
I don't know. If it was something they had done before and now were no longer doing it, I can see it frustrating Brady.I don’t want to overreact but Brady isn’t coming across all that well right now.
First time dealing with Spurned Boston Media, huh?I don’t want to overreact but Brady isn’t coming across all that well right now.
Gronk is #7 and #9.Of the Top 10 selling jerseys since the draft, Brady jerseys are #3, #4, #5, #6 and #10.