In somewhat shocking news, Pagano and Grigson are both staying put in Indy.
So is this what Joe Thomas meant by Mangini Part 2? Do we think that means Mangini went into Cleveland with lots of bluster about being part of a dynasty or does he just think New England's coordinators get over-rated? (i guess these things arent mutually exclusive)Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 25m25 minutes ago
Cleveland Browns have requested and received permission to interview Patriots' defensive coordinator Matt Patricia, per a league source.
I was kidding.If he going to be the HC, Patricia doesn't require any compensation, regardless of contract status.
If we don't tell the Browns this, we can probably convince them to make that deal...If he going to be the HC, Patricia doesn't require any compensation, regardless of contract status.
I suspect it's option 3--they got a not particularly successful coach cheap. Mangini had a year left on his Jets contract so the Browns were able to pay him well below market value (the Jets get a set-off for his Cleveland salary but Mangini gets to fuck the Jets if he just accepts a low salary, so while it's unknown that's probably what he did).So is this what Joe Thomas meant by Mangini Part 2? Do we think that means Mangini went into Cleveland with lots of bluster about being part of a dynasty or does he just think New England's coordinators get over-rated? (i guess these things arent mutually exclusive)
Cleveland is still paying the previous coaching staff, you know, the one before Pettine. If they are looking to do it cheaply, they are doing it so very, very wrong.I suspect it's option 3--they got a not particularly successful coach cheap. Mangini had a year left on his Jets contract so the Browns were able to pay him well below market value (the Jets get a set-off for his Cleveland salary but Mangini gets to fuck the Jets if he just accepts a low salary, so while it's unknown that's probably what he did).
If you're Thomas and you know the team is hiring a just fired mediocrity (who also has a bad rep in the league for being a douche) and you think they did it in part to save money, well, you might be pissed too.
I've wanted to hate Coughlin for nearly 8 years now, but like Mo Rivera, I just can't. Likewise for Pete Carroll, even despite '97-99... they both say the right things, call BS like they see it, and aren't a douchebag to anyone.Coughlin's goodbye press conference - mentioned that the Giants and Browns were the only teams he could get on B&W rabbit ears TV growing up in a tiny town in NY.
Wonder if he could end up in Cleveland? He is one of the few guys who would have the stature to tell that jackass ownership group that he gets 100% control.
Coughlin total class here, btw. He gets some shit, deservedly, but he is a class act.
He may not be elite, or HOF, but this is far from the craziest idea I have seen. Coughlin is exactly the kind of guy who could sand blast 16 years of accumulated misery, foolishness and unprofessional behavior. The owner would have to step back. He'd have to pair Coughlin with a strong GM and coaching staff. On that staff, there should be one or more plausible successors because the guy is 69. And Coughlin would have to have the energy for it. But the guy represents substance and values. Holmgren, on the other hand, took a flier for the money and by that point in his career was largely NFLN/ESPN hype.Coughlin's goodbye press conference - mentioned that the Giants and Browns were the only teams he could get on B&W rabbit ears TV growing up in a tiny town in NY.
Wonder if he could end up in Cleveland? He is one of the few guys who would have the stature to tell that jackass ownership group that he gets 100% control.
Coughlin total class here, btw. He gets some shit, deservedly, but he is a class act.
Browns because they were perennial champions back then (Paul Brown, Otto Graham, Lou Groza, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, etc.) and Giants because of NY state.Coughlin's goodbye press conference - mentioned that the Giants and Browns were the only teams he could get on B&W rabbit ears TV growing up in a tiny town in NY.
Wonder if he could end up in Cleveland? He is one of the few guys who would have the stature to tell that jackass ownership group that he gets 100% control.
Coughlin total class here, btw. He gets some shit, deservedly, but he is a class act.
I'm with you here. In addition - he's always talked about as a disciplinarian, but his teams always seem to be undisciplined and sloppy. He's spent a good chunk of his career working with a fantastic drafting GM in Reese - I've always kind of felt like his teams have underperformed their talent levels - and the two superbowl years were basically where he got them to play up to their talent levels.If that were part of some sustained string of excellence, I might consider it less fluky. But that was literally all he did in New York. He was there for ten other seasons and they won exactly ZERO playoff games. Not one. 2 SB championships, 3 one-and-dones, and 7 seasons without playoffs. His average record with the NYG was 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
He had a nice run in Jacksonville for a few years, which is doubly impressive considering they were an expansion team. But again, his average JAX record was also 8.5-7.5. Barely over .500.
If you look at the top 20 winningest NFL coaches, and sort by winning percentage, he's 19th between Dan Reeves and Jeff Fisher. I can't help but think two hot months completely defined this guy's career instead of the entire body of work which, while certainly good, doesn't look all that different from guys like Brian Billick (x 2).
York says that Tomsula will get all remaining money on his 4-year contract whether he coaches elsewhere or not. So assuming he gets another coaching gig beginning next year, Tomsula will be paid $14 million for his efforts this year (and silence thereafter).Re Harbaugh v. Tomsula, read Tim Kawakami's Twitter timeline. He lays out that Tomsula was Jed and Baalke's guy inside Harbaugh's staff and presumably was rewarded for his loyalty to the people above the coach with Harbaugh's job.
The truth of this will probably be easily determined by looking at the next job Tomsula gets after he is done collecting Jed's money. He is widely acknowledged as a very good DLine coach, but being a rat might keep him from working on a quality staff. If he is forced to work for whomever the new coach is in Cleveland in 2018, we will know his reputation took a hit.
Of course, I could see someone like Carroll or Arians hiring him just because they have staffs full of retread coaches and would love his take on the Niners.
Perused the NY tabloids, and it's as if it never happened, and one piece in the Post insists it was not a snub. And, of course, they all are reporting this as a "resignation".
It doesn't say 'good coaching' to me when losing a single WR completely derails your whole season. That screams either bad coaching, bad roster design, or an inability to gameplan. And Coughlin's teams have a tendency to just come off the rails like that.I agree. They were 10-1 at the time, with the one loss being a 21 point blowout at Cleveland (who would go 4-12 that season) of all places. Plax was drawing double coverages and Eli had the offense humming. Then he fucking shoots himself in a nightclub and the rest of the season was a shit sandwich.
Then again, look at what the loss of Edelman arguably did to the Pats offense. Sure, there are other factors at play in NE, and other key injuries. But many of the folks who are optimistic about the Pats' chances in the playoffs are pinning their hopes on the ripple effect of Edelman's return, at least in part.It doesn't say 'good coaching' to me when losing a single WR completely derails your whole season. That screams either bad coaching, bad roster design, or an inability to gameplan. And Coughlin's teams have a tendency to just come off the rails like that.
I just took a look at the 2008 Giants, and they were absurdly healthy. Of the 22 players designated starters, Plaxico is the only one to play less than 13 games (at 9). Brandon Jacobs (13) is the only other I could find who played less than 15. Most were listed as starters for 14+ games, and all the sort of players that don't rotate started 16 games. Contrast that to this years Patriots.
Apples and oranges (or cinderblocks). The Patriots didn't lose Edelman, they lost some combination of Edelman, Lewis, Amendola, Gronk, Blount, Solder, Vollmer, and several major key pieces of their defense. If you took away Edelman and gave them everyone else back, they'd be easy consensus favorites to win the Super Bowl.Then again, look at what the loss of Edelman arguably did to the Pats offense. Sure, there are other factors at play in NE, and other key injuries. But many of the folks who are optimistic about the Pats' chances in the playoffs are pinning their hopes on the ripple effect of Edelman's return, at least in part.
I'm not going to get into the apples business but I will say that I don't think it's as dissimilar as you are suggesting.Apples and oranges (or cinderblocks). The Patriots didn't lose Edelman, they lost some combination of Edelman, Lewis, Amendola, Gronk, Blount, Solder, Vollmer, and several major key pieces of their defense. If you took away Edelman and gave them everyone else back, they'd be easy consensus favorites to win the Super Bowl.
People are pinning hopes on Edelman because so much is missing that they hope that one piece is enough to keep the ship afloat, not because he got knocked out and then everything else fell apart because of it.
Plus, the way Plexiglass got hurt (an insane story over a holiday weekend) totally blew up the Giants for a variety of reasons, including the loss of the player on the field.Then again, look at what the loss of Edelman arguably did to the Pats offense. Sure, there are other factors at play in NE, and other key injuries. But many of the folks who are optimistic about the Pats' chances in the playoffs are pinning their hopes on the ripple effect of Edelman's return, at least in part.
And if it's bad coaching OR bad roster design, then it might not be both. Coughlin was not the GM.
Let me be clear, I am not a huge fan of Coughlin or his advocate. I still crack up whenever I see Tom's sideline impersonation of him shaking his head. But this Pats season has opened my eyes to the possibility that the loss of a super talented WR can really screw up an offense. Even with the very best HC in football.
Amendola did a decent enough impression for them to get by. The next 6 games they scored 27 points per game. It wasn't until Danny went down the second time that the options became too few. Edelman's presence was missed and his absence was felt, but it wasn't until a lot of other things had happened that the offense derailed.I'm not going to get into the apples business but I will say that I don't think it's as dissimilar as you are suggesting.
People who put a lot on Jules' return are thinking, in part, that his quick release off the line and ability to get open -- both at all and very quickly -- will compensate for a lot of what ails the Pats' offensive line and offense, in general. At least, I've heard and read that.
Now yeah, as we both noted, there are a lot of other causes/injuries. Getting Vollmer back on Jan 16 should help. So should more recovery time for Danny, Gronk and even LaFell.
But I don't think it's accurate to say that those casting their eyes on Edelman are just a hoping and a dreaming. As a friend e-mailed today, Julian might have showed that he was the MVP (other than Tom) by not playing.
Because?Titans requesting to interview Chris Polian... so yeah they will never be good again
Waiting for someone to post this.What the hell is this CBS?
Waiting for someone to post this.
It's a wonderfully NY-centric view of the world. As noted above, Yankees, Giants, IBM ... Then everyone else.
This is laughable“They need to go for a proven guy,” giantsinsider.com writer Jerry Foley said on CBS Sports Radio’s Ferrall on the Bench. “It’s not going to be a (Bill) Cowher or (Jon) Gruden. I think they’re going to try and do everything they can to get Sean Payton without giving up too high of a draft pick because the roster is what the issue is. It’s talent. So I think they have to go for a name like Payton, (but) don’t laugh: If the Patriots are somehow eliminated in two weeks, I really believe they’re going to call them and at least ask about Belichick. I know it’s insane, but if there’s one organization where (Belichick) would go back to, I think it’s the Giants. He loves the Giants. He had tears in his eyes when he went back to Giants Stadium when he was with the Patriots. I think he would love to come in on a white horse and say, ‘I’m running this whole thing.’ I know it’s insane, but what else can he accomplish in New England? He’s got four Super Bowls. I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened.”
Did the season really go off the rails after that injury? Or, can you blame the injury for their less than stellar finish?It doesn't say 'good coaching' to me when losing a single WR completely derails your whole season. That screams either bad coaching, bad roster design, or an inability to gameplan. And Coughlin's teams have a tendency to just come off the rails like that.
I just took a look at the 2008 Giants, and they were absurdly healthy. Of the 22 players designated starters, Plaxico is the only one to play less than 13 games (at 9). Brandon Jacobs (13) is the only other I could find who played less than 15. Most were listed as starters for 14+ games, and all the sort of players that don't rotate started 16 games. Contrast that to this years Patriots.
Because BB gives a juicy quote or creates news ALMOST EVERY DAY!!“Payton is in the Coughlin category; Belichick is in the Lombardi/Landry/Shula category,” Foley said. “Would he leave? It wouldn’t stun me. I just don’t know what else he can accomplish with the Patriots. If he came to the Giants, he would own New York City. When the Knicks are good, New York is a basketball town. They’re also a baseball town. They’re a football town, but it’s really third on the list of sports. If Belichick comes in, the Giants are at the back page almost every day.”
Eric DeCosta, of Baltimore by way of Taunton MA, says no again.Titans requesting to interview Chris Polian... so yeah they will never be good again