Tyrone Biggums said:
So in your eyes he is untradeable? I don't understand. You're talking about a league average outfielder that will be 32 in spring training. It depends what direction they want to take the team. If they're going with a youth movement then it's better served giving his at bats to Hassan/Brentz/other prospect. Nava's years of cost control is what gives him some value. If you could actually get a C+ B- prospect for him then you make the deal.
On the other side of the coin you have people on here that if faced with the prospect of getting Stanton feels the Sox should hold off because they have Nava.
Your post (and others mentioning Nava the past several weeks) have merely lumped him in with expiring contracts as the sort of disposable fodder that's usually dealt away by struggling teams at the deadline. Trading a club-controlled player with immense value (and make no mistake, Nava's production relative to cost makes his value IMMENSE) at the fucking trade deadline -- when only the contenders are buying -- is one of the worst strategies any team can employ.
Come the off-season, if there's a package available to bring Stanton to Boston, then of course you consider moving Nava to facilitate it. But Stanton's not being traded away at the deadline.
OzSox said:
I know offense is down in the last few years but I think you're being a bit too kind to Nava with your choices of verbs/adjectives in describing these slash lines. The OBP is good but overall I don't think these lines are as impressive as you're making them out to be.
Oh, OK. Here's a list of all MLB outfielders over the past 2 seasons with at least 200 total PA vs RHP, sorted by their wRC+ against righties (data from Fangraphs):
[tablegrid=]
# | Name | Team | PA | BB% | K% | OBP | SLG | OPS | ISO | Spd | wRC | wRAA | wOBA | wRC+ |
1 | Mike Trout | LAA | 848 | 12.7 % | 21.1 % | .412 | .582 | .994 | .260 | 2.6 | 165 | 72.3 | .422 | 177 |
2 | Yasiel Puig | LAD | 640 | 8.9 % | 21.4 % | .391 | .543 | .934 | .227 | 2.4 | 115 | 45.0 | .403 | 164 |
3 | Andrew McCutchen | PIT | 927 | 11.9 % | 17.5 % | .399 | .507 | .906 | .196 | 1.6 | 157 | 56.3 | .391 | 154 |
4 | Lucas Duda | NYM | 577 | 13.3 % | 21.0 % | .376 | .515 | .892 | .252 | 0.1 | 95 | 32.3 | .385 | 151 |
5 | Shin-Soo Choo | CIN-TEX | 790 | 15.9 % | 19.5 % | .416 | .474 | .890 | .190 | 0.9 | 135 | 49.2 | .392 | 149 |
6 | Brandon Moss | OAK | 746 | 10.2 % | 23.5 % | .347 | .538 | .885 | .274 | 1.4 | 120 | 38.5 | .379 | 145 |
7 | Corey Dickerson | COL | 389 | 8.5 % | 19.0 % | .371 | .566 | .937 | .251 | 2.6 | 69 | 26.2 | .399 | 142 |
8 | Bryce Harper | WAS | 465 | 12.0 % | 19.1 % | .371 | .500 | .871 | .219 | 1.4 | 73 | 22.3 | .375 | 140 |
9 | Matt Holliday | STL | 775 | 10.1 % | 14.3 % | .370 | .482 | .852 | .195 | 0.4 | 120 | 35.8 | .372 | 140 |
10 | Carlos Gonzalez | COL | 454 | 10.4 % | 24.7 % | .357 | .565 | .922 | .286 | 2.6 | 79 | 29.0 | .395 | 139 |
11 | Michael Cuddyer | COL | 497 | 7.0 % | 17.5 % | .382 | .529 | .911 | .193 | 0.9 | 86 | 31.3 | .394 | 138 |
12 | Coco Crisp | OAK | 621 | 13.0 % | 10.3 % | .374 | .471 | .844 | .186 | 1.4 | 94 | 26.7 | .368 | 137 |
13 | Daniel Nava | BOS | 580 | 9.8 % | 16.2 % | .400 | .448 | .848 | .137 | 0.1 | 91 | 28.1 | .375 | 136 |
14 | Jayson Werth | WAS | 743 | 10.2 % | 19.2 % | .370 | .465 | .836 | .178 | 0.1 | 113 | 32.0 | .368 | 136 |
15 | Jose Bautista | TOR | 760 | 14.2 % | 15.8 % | .377 | .481 | .858 | .213 | 0.1 | 119 | 36.3 | .374 | 135 |
16 | Seth Smith | OAK-SD | 624 | 11.2 % | 19.2 % | .366 | .466 | .832 | .187 | 1.4 | 92 | 24.3 | .363 | 135 |
17 | Kole Calhoun | LAA | 396 | 9.3 % | 17.2 % | .346 | .483 | .829 | .201 | 1.6 | 58 | 14.9 | .361 | 135 |
18 | Christian Yelich | SEA | 472 | 12.1 % | 22.5 % | .387 | .446 | .833 | .143 | 1.9 | 72 | 20.7 | .369 | 135 |
19 | Michael Brantley | CLE | 711 | 6.9 % | 7.6 % | .360 | .475 | .834 | .163 | 0.6 | 106 | 28.1 | .364 | 134 |
20 | Carlos Beltran | STL-NYY | 623 | 7.7 % | 14.9 % | .346 | .493 | .839 | .201 | 0.9 | 92 | 24.3 | .363 | 132 |
[/tablegrid]So despite his dearth of traditional home run power and almost non-existent speed, Daniel Fucking Nava has been the 13th-best offensive outfielder in all of baseball against righties the last two seasons. How do those verbs/adjectives work for you now?
If I also added their salaries and contract status (something I might do when I get a little more time), I'd have to use 72-point font to highlight what a bargain Nava's been (and figures to be over the next 2 years) relative to most of the other names on that list.
jimbobim said:
Nava is a nice left handed bat who crushes RHP. I'm sure given his control he could fetch a decent prospect with a little more of a ceiling.
This -- along with Tyrone's assertion that "If you could actually get a C+ B- prospect for him then you make the deal" -- is by far the most ridiculous part of this whole approach. LOOK AT THE FUCKING CHART. You seriously want to take a guy who's actually reached the majors AND produced at that level, who projects to still be a bargain for at least the next two seasons, and trade him for a "decent" "C+ B-" prospect who MIGHT reach the majors at some point, and who MIGHT produce at an even higher level than 13th in wRC+ in all of baseball vs RHP? And you want to do this at the trade deadline with a limited pool of buying teams?
I'm at a loss. I mean, holy shit. What are you people smoking?
EDIT - Fixed table sort parameters. Carp (132 wRC+) would rank 21st.